31,000 Scientist Say No To Global Warming

[AndyMarquisLIVE]

Another good one is An Inconvenient Truth which, I suspect, most of the Al Gore beaters on this forum have never seen even though they hold strong opinions about its content.

I have seen it, and it's all

We get it, in the last 200-something years, the global temperature has risen a fraction of 1°.

 

[itsbob]

Yea, all the water sensors around the globe show a drop in temp. but the looneys think we're melting....

Well DUH!! It's because it's like the tropics in the North Pole, all the ice is melting and cooling the ocean... just like the ice in your rum and coke!

I've done this experiment many times and KNOW it's true!!

 

[FromTexas]

I have seen it, and it's all

We get it, in the last 200-something years, the global temperature has risen a fraction of 1°.

Did you look at the chart I posted? It is going to get so much hotter than that. We are at one of the coolest points in all those cycles. Damn man - ruining the all those ancient periods millions and millions of years ago.

 

[Larry Gude]

So...

"The Earth's temperature for the first six months of the year was the second-warmest ever recorded, government scientists reported today."

...who should die first? If made made carbon based fuel emissions are the cause and the cure, reducing them, then the only way to do that is to kill human beings, to impose our will.

We can put our own economy into turmoil by eliminating carbon emissions and, perhaps, we'll survive it. In the mean time, when the biggest consumer no longer uses them, carbon based fuels will become incredibly cheap and easy to get and use and every other economy on the planet will use them. They'll use them because they won't likely choose to just allow their nations and people to suffer the titanic consequences of the massive reductions that reducing CO2 levels will take. They won't allow the mass starvation and freezing and collapse of their economies. They won't because they have no prospects of surviving that kind of shock.

Unless we force them to stop. That means war.

So, who first? We could dramatically reduce CO2 emissions tomorrow if we just whack 1.3 some odd billion Chinese. That might do the trick right there. If not, who else? And, when that does nothing for global warming, how do we apologize?

And what about the warming on Mars? Maybe we should wipe out India to to save the heating on Mars which, using the same logic, must also be cause by us and not variations on and within the largest heat source in the galaxy.

Let the planet saving begin!

 

[The Oyster Guy]

...who should die first? If made made carbon based fuel emissions are the cause and the cure, reducing them, then the only way to do that is to kill human beings, to impose our will.

We can put our own economy into turmoil by eliminating carbon emissions and, perhaps, we'll survive it. In the mean time, when the biggest consumer no longer uses them, carbon based fuels will become incredibly cheap and easy to get and use and every other economy on the planet will use them. They'll use them because they won't likely choose to just allow their nations and people to suffer the titanic consequences of the massive reductions that reducing CO2 levels will take. They won't allow the mass starvation and freezing and collapse of their economies. They won't because they have no prospects of surviving that kind of shock.

Unless we force them to stop. That means war.

So, who first? We could dramatically reduce CO2 emissions tomorrow if we just whack 1.3 some odd billion Chinese. That might do the trick right there. If not, who else? And, when that does nothing for global warming, how do we apologize?

And what about the warming on Mars? Maybe we should wipe out India to to save the heating on Mars which, using the same logic, must also be cause by us and not variations on and within the largest heat source in the galaxy.

Let the planet saving begin!

Oh puhleez... I didn't see anyone in this thread propose exterminating billions of Chinese and Indians.

But, congratulations on erecting the biggest straw man in web history! Quite an accomplishment there!

 

[PsyOps]

Does that mean AlBore has to give his Nobel Prize back?



Figure the odds.

The Nobel is a joke. Carter got his for brokering peace where there is no peace. Gore gets one for something that 1) turns out isn't happening and 2) didn't result in peace.

 

[wildsage]

... (which by the way it seems when we had a mild hurricane season last year global warming was causing it be mild, so which is it more mild disasters, or more severe). It’s bad when the scientist trying to make a statement about how bad it will be can’t even come to some consensus on the models when they all should be using the same data...Another thing is that it is very easy to manipulate data, which it seems the global warming nazis manipulate the data quite often to put a model into their favor.

So, the people in it for the science can't be trusted to make sense out of it because so complicated, but the fossil-fuel greedheads wouldn't steer you wrong. (BTW, this "nazis" thing -- do you really associate some Poindexter who has bad hair & a pocket-protector with Nazi, over a sneering Dick like Cheney? Do you run over puppies & cuddle snakes?)

Where you here 1000 years ago to know that the glaciers and ice caps may not have existed.

Where? What?
So, if you think that the ice caps & glaciers aren't 1,000 years, how old do you think the earth is? Just curious.

You also might want to find a graph showing the correlation between CO2 and average temperature, how is it that the temperature raises before the CO2 level does. If CO2 is the main culprit then how does the temperature change without the level of CO2 in the atmosphere doing so first?

Look, I'm not going to tutor you in climatology or earth science. Short answer: there are other global warming factors than carbon dioxide, for example methane & water vapor both have more greenhouse effect; one suggestion might be that as the planet warms, more carbon dioxide is released from the land, oceans & biota BECAUSE THE PLANET WARMS UP. That's why the consensus says that it is a problem: these effects multiply each other.

However a catch 22 is if we stop using fossil fuels we put millions of people out of work, we will put our sole basis of energy on things that are far more expensive, not as efficient, and if we start using new forms that have not been tested long enough we could have a $50 billion fusion generator that doesn’t work properly.

See, there's the hysteria and it didn't come from the save-the-planet side, it came from your buddies in Bush country. And cost? Every fuel-related thread on this forum other than this one moans about how expensive gas (oil) is.

Look at time magazine covers from the last century, they switch from global warming to the next ice age in what appears to be every 15-30 years.

Not that TIME is a great source either, but can you show me the covers to which you refer?

Also wiki is not a 100% reliable source neither is mainstream media so you might want to find some new links. On a side note I will be looking forward to the mild summers for the next 12 years or more.

Wiki has admitted problems, but if you read it they include a disclaimer when the article is disputed. Read a little closer and you will see that the claims made in Wiki-articles are referenced, even the counter-claims, so someone doing research can go look for themselves. That's what those footnote thingies are for. (I guess only Wiki-morons don't know that.) I use Wiki because it is a clearinghouse of information; anyone interested can dig deeper given the references in Wiki; the truly accomplished can type their own Google searches -- just be sure that you rank the other sources with as much skepticism as you do the ideas that you pre-disagree with. (BTW, I did include other links but I ain't digging them up for you.)
I was on the Gulf Coast 3 summers ago (and many before that). I predict that you will not experience 12 mild summers in the next dozen years.

I'll get to the rest of you later.

 

[Baja28]

So,

BRB, I'm gonna go change all the wiki articles........

Oh, and I'm gonna read an Al Bore book.....

Damn it's hot in here.

 

[AK-74me]

Not that TIME is a great source either, but can you show me the covers to which you refer?

.

Not time but here is a Newsweek scan that I saved a while back.

 

[Baja28]

Not time but here is a Newsweek scan that I saved a while back.

But but but....that (just like the global temperature probes) shows the earth has been cooling since 1940!!! Al is not going to be happy.

 

[The Oyster Guy]

But but but....that (just like the global temperature probes) shows the earth has been cooling since 1940!!! Al is not going to be happy.

Reference, please.

 

[Larry Gude]

Thank...

Oh puhleez... I didn't see anyone in this thread propose exterminating billions of Chinese and Indians.

But, congratulations on erecting the biggest straw man in web history! Quite an accomplishment there!

...you. So, it should be real simple to explain how, a, I'm wrong and, b, how are they gonna stop using fossil fuel even remotely enough to achieve even a leveling of CO2 emissions let alone an actual, ha, reduction?

 

[Baja28]

Reference, please.

You putz's sure scream "WE'RE MELTING" but you fail to find out the facts.... I could go on but that would be piling on and I'm a nice guy.


1. FOXNews.com - Evidence of Global Cooling - Brit Hume | Special Report
2. DailyTech - Temperature Monitors Report Widescale Global Cooling
3. Global cooling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (This one has no credibility but I want goober wildsage to see)
4. Global cooling? - Forecast Earth
5. Famed Hurricane Forecaster William Gray Predicts Global Cooling in 10 Years

But now, that evidence has been supplanted by hard scientific fact. All four major global temperature tracking outlets (Hadley, NASA's GISS, UAH, RSS) have released updated data. All show that over the past year, global temperatures have dropped precipitously.

 

[The Oyster Guy]

...you. So, it should be real simple to explain how, a, I'm wrong and, b, how are they gonna stop using fossil fuel even remotely enough to achieve even a leveling of CO2 emissions let alone an actual, ha, reduction?

Your whole premise (that it's somehow impossible to advance/maintain a standard of living while simultaneously reducing greenhouse gas emissions) is baseless. It doesn't matter what country you're citing, reducing emissions doesn't somehow trigger the end of civilization. Knock-off the hyperbole already.

 

[The Oyster Guy]

You putz's sure scream "WE'RE MELTING" but you fail to find out the facts.... I could go on but that would be piling on and I'm a nice guy.


1. FOXNews.com - Evidence of Global Cooling - Brit Hume | Special Report
2. DailyTech - Temperature Monitors Report Widescale Global Cooling
3. Global cooling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (This one has no credibility but I want goober wildsage to see)
4. Global cooling? - Forecast Earth
5. Famed Hurricane Forecaster William Gray Predicts Global Cooling in 10 Years

None of the refs you supplied go to support your original assertion:

But but but....that (just like the global temperature probes) shows the earth has been cooling since 1940!!!

Please try again.

 

[wildsage]

Not time but here is a Newsweek scan that I saved a while back.

The article is mostly concerned about changing climate affecting agriculture. The gist is "earth's weather patterns have changed" which may result in a "drastic decline in food production...In England, farmers have seen their growing season decline..." but "During the same time, the average temperature around the equator has risen..." One would expect that our understanding of the factors in the planet's climate and how they interact would have increased by some extent since then. The argument now is "it's so complicated no one knows" but there has been a strong focus, especially in the last 20 years, and the climate models are much more complex than they used to be. The data from 1968 may not have been sampled well. Maybe they didn't account for global warming changing ocean currents -- maybe the Gulf Stream no longer boosted England's average temps (and growing season). It's a short article about a complicated process in a weekly newsmagazine.
The article is from 35 years ago (that's 1973 for you Wiki-morons) and it appears that the majority opinion is from NOAA reaearchers. Looking at NOAA's website today (http://lwf.ncdc.noaa.gov/oa/climate/globalwarming.html):
"Global surface temperatures have increased about 0.74°C (plus or minus 0.18°C) since the late-19th century, and the linear trend for the past 50 years of 0.13°C (plus or minus 0.03°C) per decade is nearly twice that for the past 100 years. The warming has not been globally uniform. Some areas (including parts of the southeastern U.S. and parts of the North Atlantic) have, in fact, cooled slightly over the last century. The recent warmth has been greatest over North America and Eurasia between 40 and 70°N. Lastly, seven of the eight warmest years on record have occurred since 2001 and the 10 warmest years have all occurred since 1995."
"There has been a general, but not global, tendency toward reduced diurnal temperature range [daily lows are closer to highs] ...over about 70% of the global land mass since the middle of the 20th century. However, for the period 1979-2005 the DTR shows no trend since the trend in both maximum and minimum temperatures for the same period are virtually identical; both showing a strong warming signal."
"Indirect indicators of warming such as borehole temperatures, snow cover, and glacier recession data, are in substantial agreement with the more direct indicators of recent warmth."
"Global changes in temperature extremes include decreases in the number of unusually cold days and nights and increases in the number of unusually warm days and nights. Other observed changes include lengthening of the growing season, and decreases in the number of frost days."
"For Northern Hemisphere temperature, recent decades appear to be the warmest since at least about 1000AD, and the warming since the late 19th century is unprecedented over the last 1000 years... Ice core data suggest that the 20th century has been warm in many parts of the globe, but also that the significance of the warming varies geographically, when viewed in the context of climate variations of the last millennium."
"Large and rapid climatic changes affecting the atmospheric and oceanic circulation and temperature, and the hydrological cycle, occurred during the last ice age and during the transition towards the present Holocene period. Based on the incomplete evidence available, the projected change of 3 to 7°F (1.5 - 4°C) over the next century would be unprecedented in comparison with the best available records from the last several thousand years."
"Global mean sea level has been rising at an average rate of 1.7 mm/year (plus or minus 0.5mm) over the past 100 years, which is significantly larger than the rate averaged over the last several thousand years."
"Based on paleoclimatic (proxy) reconstructions of solar irradiance there is suggestion of a trend of about +0.12 W/m2 since 1750 which is about half of the estimate given in the last IPCC report in 2001. There is though, a great deal of uncertainty in estimates of solar irradiance beyond what can be measured by satellites, and still the contribution of direct solar irradiance forcing is small compared to the greenhouse gas component."
"...the Earth's position and orientation relative to the sun (our orbit) also varies slightly, thereby bringing us closer and further away from the sun in predictable cycles. While [these] Milankovitch cycles have tremendous value as a theory to explain ice-ages and long-term changes in the climate, they are unlikely to have very much impact on the decade-century timescale. Over several centuries, it may be possible to observe the effect of these orbital parameters, however for the prediction of climate change in the 21st century, these changes will be far less important than radiative forcing from greenhouse gases."
Link to source for those of you who want to read the whole thing; emphasis my own.

 

[wildsage]

I have seen it, and it's all
We get it, in the last 200-something years, the global temperature has risen a fraction of 1°.

If you have seen it and say it is all bull####, you either are lying or know nothing about science. (Homeschool much?)
BTW, that's "a fraction of a degree Celsius" (No, that isn't the new Toyota model.)

 

[wildsage]

Well DUH!! It's because it's like the tropics in the North Pole, all the ice is melting and cooling the ocean... just like the ice in your rum and coke! I've done this experiment many times and KNOW it's true!!

Partly true: as the ice melts in your refreshing rum & coke, the level stays the same because the ice is displacing its own weight in water.
But, Archimedes, what happens when your beverage glass is filled to the brim and some idiot throws more cubes in? That's what happens when suspended ice-shelves fall into the ocean and ice calves off from glaciers on land.

 

[wildsage]

Here is a chart of the climate throughout the planets history. First question - which of those temperatures is the right one we shouldn't deviate from?

You're serious? We're talking about what is happening in our lifetimes and what we are leaving for the next two generations and you compare millennial temperature shifts? The point is this: the rate of climate change and concurrent sea level rise exceed what has happened before in the planet's history.

 

[Otter]

You putz's sure scream "WE'RE MELTING" but you fail to find out the facts.... I could go on but that would be piling on and I'm a nice guy.


1. FOXNews.com - Evidence of Global Cooling - Brit Hume | Special Report
2. DailyTech - Temperature Monitors Report Widescale Global Cooling
3. Global cooling - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (This one has no credibility but I want goober wildsage to see)
4. Global cooling? - Forecast Earth
5. Famed Hurricane Forecaster William Gray Predicts Global Cooling in 10 Years

Mikey, don't you realize that global cooling is a direct result of global warming..?