350 Men, Women, and Children held hostage in Russia! Putin forced to negotiate.

sleuth · Sep 2, 2004

BESLAN, Russia (Reuters) - President Vladimir Putin promised Thursday to do all he could to prevent harm coming to hundreds of children, parents and teachers held for a second day by gunmen at a south Russian school near rebel Chechnya.

Up to 40 men and women, some strapped with explosives, seized the school in the usually quiet town of Beslan on Wednesday morning, threatening to blow it up together with about 350 hostages.

...

Putin described the seizure as "horrifying because among the hostages are children" and because it could upset the delicate balance of religious and national groups in the turbulent Caucasus region.

...

The crisis, in which the gunmen have used tactics bearing the hallmarks of past Chechen rebel attacks, gives Putin one of the hardest choices in his 4-1/2 years in the Kremlin.

Should he risk a slaughter by following his past practice of sending in troops to end such sieges, or try to save the children by breaking a long-held vow not to negotiate with "terrorists?"

linkage: http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=worldNews&storyID=6134392

CMC122 · Sep 2, 2004

They already announced this morning that a large explosion came from the building :frown:

Kizzy · Sep 2, 2004

This makes me totally sick.

kwillia · Sep 2, 2004

You can't negotiate with terrorists without opening Pandora's box. Putin can't release all the prisoners they want and he can't remove all forces from Chechnya so either the terrorists back down or they blow it all up. Let's say he does give into the demands this time. What about the school they take over next week and then the one after that... and so on and so on. And if those terrorists are successful, you bet your bippy many other countries will be going through the same thing soon after.

sleuth · Sep 2, 2004

CMC122 said:
They already announced this morning that a large explosion came from the building

Here's that news...

http://sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/news/archive/2004/09/02/international0727EDT0497.DTL

sleuth · Sep 2, 2004

kwillia said:
You can't negotiate with terrorists without opening Pandora's box. Putin can't release all the prisoners they want and he can't remove all forces from Chechnya so either the terrorists back down or they blow it all up. Let's say he does give into the demands this time. What about the school they take over next week and then the one after that... and so on and so on. And if those terrorists are successful, you bet your bippy many other countries will be going through the same thing soon after.

"No negotiation with terrorists" is a much tougher policy when there's so many children involved. He must be agonizing over this situation. :frown:

I'm not sure how I would handle it.

justhangn · Sep 2, 2004

This will end like the theater issue 2 years ago..........

SamSpade · Sep 2, 2004

sleuth said:
"No negotiation with terrorists" is a much tougher policy when there's so many children involved. He must be agonizing over this situation.

I'm not sure how I would handle it.

1. Gas 'em all with a narcotic or sleeping gas. Do it quietly.

2. Find out who they are, and round up *their* families.

3. Agree to all their terms, and then kill them all once they're out. Announce their identities on national television and make them all wanted men. Pour even MORE troops into Chechnya.

Hey, it's *RUSSIA*, after all!

sleuth · Sep 2, 2004

SamSpade said:
1. Gas 'em all with a narcotic or sleeping gas. Do it quietly.

2. Find out who they are, and round up *their* families.

3. Agree to all their terms, and then kill them all once they're out. Announce their identities on national television and make them all wanted men. Pour even MORE troops into Chechnya.

Hey, it's *RUSSIA*, after all!

According to that last article I posted, the "knockout gas" was not an option. Children are more sensitive to it, and apparently the last time they used it, over 100 hostages died. :ohwell:

kwillia · Sep 2, 2004

sleuth said:
According to that last article I posted, the "knockout gas" was not an option. Children are more sensitive to it, and apparently the last time they used it, over 100 hostages died.

I see absolutely no way out of this unless the terrorists back down. :ohwell:

Kizzy · Sep 2, 2004

Yea but their fate already seems doomed. :ohwell:

It makes me sick that they would take children, just nothing is sacred anymore.

I believe in the legal system in the U.S., but in my opinion, anyone caught in terrorist activity or to be involved in terrorist activity outta be hung in the streets.

SamSpade · Sep 2, 2004

But THIS is the non "sensitive" to children knockout gas!! As long as we're making sh!t up, we ought to just "beam" them out.

I don't know the politics in Russia, and what kind of human relations fiasco any kind of mistake would bring. God knows if it was the United States, *whomever* was in charge would be in trouble no matter what.

I just know that capitulation today puts EVERY child in Russia in danger tomorrow. Sounds cold, but they have to take them out somehow, because these guys are not afraid to die, killing these hostages.

SamSpade · Sep 2, 2004

IM4Change said:
Yea but their fate already seems doomed.

It makes me sick that they would take children, just nothing is sacred anymore.

I believe in the legal system in the U.S., but in my opinion, anyone caught in terrorist activity or to be involved in terrorist activity outta be hung in the streets.

Years ago, long before 9/11, I had hoped that any terrorist trying anything in the U.S. would be caught by the mob and torn to pieces, just as an example of how little tolerance we'd have for it. Unfortunately, that won't work against terrorists who die committing their crime.

citysherry · Sep 2, 2004

SamSpade said:
I just know that capitulation today puts EVERY child in Russia in danger tomorrow. Sounds cold, but they have to take them out somehow, because these guys are not afraid to die, killing these hostages.

You're right, its incredibly sad, but you're right... :frown:

sleuth · Sep 2, 2004

SamSpade said:
But THIS is the non "sensitive" to children knockout gas!!

...

I just know that capitulation today puts EVERY child in Russia in danger tomorrow. Sounds cold, but they have to take them out somehow, because these guys are not afraid to die, killing these hostages.

I guess you could look at the bright side.
Saving a couple hundred hostages with knockout gas is better than killing all of them by doing nothing. :ohwell:

sleuth · Sep 2, 2004

Update:

Top Stories
Ultras free three women with infants in Russia
Moscow, Sept. 2 (PTI): Armed militants holding over 350 pupils and adults hostage in a school in Russia's southern city of Beslan released three women along with their infants today, Interfax news agency reported.

The hostages are being held in the gymnasium of the school as efforts were on to open the channel of negotiations with the militants to free the captives.

Linkage: http://www.hinduonnet.com/thehindu/holnus/001200409021942.htm

Developments in hostage crisis
September 3, 2004

THESE are the key developments in the Russian hostage crisis:

NEWS:

* An armed gang, holding hundreds of people hostage in a Russian school in the province of North Ossetia, freed four infants and at least two women.

* Russian authorities rule out for now the use of force to end the day-old hostage crisis at the southern Russia school where gunmen have seized about 350 children and adults. President Vladimir Putin says the safety of the hostages is paramount.

* Putin postpones a visit to Turkey as the hostage crisis, which bears the hallmarks of a Chechen operation, tests his resolve not to negotiate with "terrorists".

Linkage: http://www.news.com.au/common/story_page/0,4057,10654777%5E2,00.html

sleuth · Sep 2, 2004

Another update

BESLAN, Russia Sept. 2, 2004 — Camouflaged security agents carried babies to safety after militants holding hundreds of hostages at a school released at least 26 women and children Thursday, and officials expressed hope that negotiations would bring more progress in the standoff in southern Russia.

But a crowd of hostages' relatives keeping vigil outside the school was shaken when a pair of explosions went off just ahead of the release. Officials said militants fired rocket-propelled grenades at two cars that got too close to the school. Neither car was hit, officials said.

linkage: http://abcnews.go.com/wire/World/ap20040902_800.html

CMC122 · Sep 2, 2004

Thanks for the update!

jlabsher · Sep 3, 2004

They have stormed the school and released the hostages. Some casualties. I just love the way Russia does things:

0958: Special forces enter school
1005: Russian troops said to be nearly in full control

That's right!

Christy · Sep 3, 2004

IM4Change said:
This makes me totally sick.

You're lucky you don't have a tv. It's awful. Apparently, they have burned some of the children alive. :bawl:

350 Men, Women, and Children held hostage in Russia! Putin forced to negotiate.

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