About those "green" electric cars....
- Thread starter Gilligan
- Start date
glhs837
Power with Control
Hmmm, when I see this I have to wonder. The early Nissan LEafs had batteries that lasted such a short time, but Teslas (by far the largest amount of battery powered cars out there) battery packs have a far longer lifespan. So if you double those lifespans, how does that affect the math?
www.engadget.com
One rental joint in LA has had one do 400,000 miles. Factory battery was replaced at 194,000 miles, exhibiting 6% loss becuase it had other issues due to the opwner not following reommended practice of not Supercharging constantly and routinely recharging to 100%. Both activities are the EV equivalent of running around at redline for a gas engine. . The replacement did develop a problem at 324,000 miles.
electrek.co
One thing to note about the energy required to mine the materials is that the batteries do get recycled. There is still the dirty power used to charge, but that's on the grid to fix. Or you could put up solar panels and buy a Powerwall. Some folks have done that and the Powerwall is sufficient to recharge the daily use needs of the car.
Tesla batteries will live longer than expected, survey finds
Tesla batteries retain over 90 percent of their charging power after 160,000 miles, according to data gathered by a Dutch-Belgium Tesla owners group. According to its survey of over 350 owners, the EVs dropped about 5 percent of their capacity after 50,000 miles, but lose it at a much slower...
www.engadget.com
One rental joint in LA has had one do 400,000 miles. Factory battery was replaced at 194,000 miles, exhibiting 6% loss becuase it had other issues due to the opwner not following reommended practice of not Supercharging constantly and routinely recharging to 100%. Both activities are the EV equivalent of running around at redline for a gas engine. . The replacement did develop a problem at 324,000 miles.
Here's how a Tesla Model S holds up after 400,000 miles in 3 years
Tesla’s vehicles are becoming increasingly popular with taxi and shuttle services, which are pushing their vehicles a lot over short periods...
electrek.co
One thing to note about the energy required to mine the materials is that the batteries do get recycled. There is still the dirty power used to charge, but that's on the grid to fix. Or you could put up solar panels and buy a Powerwall. Some folks have done that and the Powerwall is sufficient to recharge the daily use needs of the car.
Yooper
Up. Identified. Lase. Fire. On the way.
"Green" cars work on a psychological level because you don't "see" the energy you're burning. So it's "feel good sleight of hand."
Yet an honest look at "green" (as mentioned in the OP link) would tell you the bennies aren't nearly as significant as green proponents would have you beleive (if at all).
For us conspiracy theory, tin-foil-hat-wearing folks (as Transporter so endearingly likes to call us), there's a cynical angle here as well. While we're already tied into the grid (fact of "no man is an island") "Green" ties you even tighter to the grid; is an even more coercive form of dependency.
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P.S. For those who may be wondering (though I'm sure that number is really, really low) there is an intentional misspelling in this post. I'm using the same misspelled word Transporter used in an earlier post because I think it's a code word to his/her/xer followers and I want to see what happens if I use it.
Yet an honest look at "green" (as mentioned in the OP link) would tell you the bennies aren't nearly as significant as green proponents would have you beleive (if at all).
For us conspiracy theory, tin-foil-hat-wearing folks (as Transporter so endearingly likes to call us), there's a cynical angle here as well. While we're already tied into the grid (fact of "no man is an island") "Green" ties you even tighter to the grid; is an even more coercive form of dependency.
--- End of line (MCP)
P.S. For those who may be wondering (though I'm sure that number is really, really low) there is an intentional misspelling in this post. I'm using the same misspelled word Transporter used in an earlier post because I think it's a code word to his/her/xer followers and I want to see what happens if I use it.
Yooper
Up. Identified. Lase. Fire. On the way.
Unless, of course, they spontaneously burst into flames destroying the car in no time (as recently happened).
You probably already know about it, but will look for the story and post link for those that don't.
Update - link: "Watch a Tesla Model S Randomly Erupt Into a Ball of Fire While Parked"
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glhs837
Power with Control
Unless, of course, they spontaneously burst into flames destroying the car in no time (as recently happened).
You probably already know about it, but will look for the story and post link for those that don't.
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No need, I"ve seen it. Yeah, I want to wait a while on calling that one "spontaneous". China has not been above smearing a foreign maker to gain some advantage. There was one they did one I think BMW or Mercedes a few years back where some guy claimed his luxury car tried to kill him. Ah, look the bolded phrase below up. Pretty funny actually. So this Tesla fire, the battery packs dont just go boom. Last case of "OMG, mah battrez just went all flamey!!!" turned out there was a friken bullet fired through the rear seat into the battery pack. I view "spontaneous" battery fires in Tesla like I do "unintended" acceleration in gas cars. Possible, a one in five million chance can happen when you build five million of a thing, but the odds are pretty high against it. Yes, Teslas burn, but I've yet to read a confirmed case of spontaneous combustion. Also think there's been maybe 2-3 detahs from fire, but all of those have been people going so fast they caused the fire by crashing.
Tesla Model S-Fire Caused by Gunshot
The fire that broke out in December 2014 in a new Tesla Model S was apparently caused by a gun fired inside the car. As electrek reports, John Schneider from Pennsylvania received on December 31st,…
thelastdriverlicenseholder.com
"Chinese man crashes Mercedes S350, vows to only drive Chinese-built cars"
Yooper
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Good points, all.
I posted the link anyway as I was in the process of doing so when I read your post.
Yeah, that would be the conclusion I would draw if I were Chinese (especially if a member who wants to remain in good standing with the ChiCom Party!).
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I before e except after c
Yooper
Up. Identified. Lase. Fire. On the way.
Yup. And links to this post (not that anyone is all that interested): https://forums.somd.com/threads/why...rneys-so-blatantly-lying.340730/#post-5991313
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glhs837
Power with Control
On a related note, Tesla had an Investor Autonomy Day to show off where they are on the route to Full Self Driving (FSD) which feeds into The Tesla Network, where you can turn your car loose to go make some money as an autonomous taxi til you need it. Some of the neural network stats are amazing.
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/teslas-autonomy-investor-day-recap/
Oh, and it notes that current battery packs are expected to go between 300 and 500K. With next gen packs good for a million miles. Motors since I think last fall are rated for a million miles already. And brakes need almost no maint since they get almost no wear. I pedict an issue with ensuring brakes retain enough functionality.
https://www.cnet.com/roadshow/news/teslas-autonomy-investor-day-recap/
Oh, and it notes that current battery packs are expected to go between 300 and 500K. With next gen packs good for a million miles. Motors since I think last fall are rated for a million miles already. And brakes need almost no maint since they get almost no wear. I pedict an issue with ensuring brakes retain enough functionality.
Yooper
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This is a big deal. Even I can recognize that!
Several years ago my wife and I went to buy a hybrid, but the deal fell through when we were told the batteries would need to be replaced (mileage independent) no later than 7 or so years after purchase. The new battery set was at that time projected to run $5k (not including labor and battery disposal/recycling costs). We couldn't see sinking $5k into an 8-YO car. It just didn't make financial sense to us.
So batteries that run out far longer than the expected life of the car...? Wow!
Good gouge!
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