Ain't this chart pretty? (Gas prices)

Tilted

Tilted

..
OPEC has reportedly voted not to cut production. I have to admit that surprises me a bit, I doubted that the long-termers would be able to get enough short-termers (e.g. those that are feeling the pinch now and can't as easily cope with what they see as lost revenue) on board with that strategy. I'm not shocked by this decision, but I did think it was more likely that it would go the other way.

So... we could see a little more short-term downside in oil (and gas) prices. We'll likely pay for it in the long run, but it'll be nice for now and probably (on-net) help our economy grow a bit faster over the next couple of quarters. The effect on some of the smaller energy companies, those that have driven the new American oil boom over the last few years, won't be so great though.
 
Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Tilted said:
The effect on some of the smaller energy companies, those that have driven the new American oil boom over the last few years, won't be so great though.
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That's a good point. Maybe that is the driving force behind this, to drive consolidation, reduce competition? Too Big To Fail gets out the scythe to do a little reaping?
 
Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
GURPS said:
$ 2.65 for a Gal of regular in Front Royal on Sat Nov 22
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Getting warmer. We need to be just under $2.00 for a couple years and then we can move on to addressing wiping out trillions in consumer and mortgage and school debt and THEN maybe we can recover.
 
kwillia

kwillia

n/a
Larry Gude said:
Getting warmer. We need to be just under $2.00 for a couple years and then we can move on to addressing wiping out trillions in consumer and mortgage and school debt and THEN maybe we can recover.
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http://www.foxbusiness.com/industries/2014/12/01/happy-holidays-from-opec-will-gas-drop-to-2/

Holiday travelers are getting a nice gift this year with gasoline prices well below $3 a gallon in most states. Some drivers could pay even less than $2 this week after OPEC’s decision to stand still ignited a big selloff in oil.

GasBuddy.com is projecting that by the end of the week a gas station in Texas or South Carolina will be the first in the U.S. to drop its price for regular gas to $1.99 a gallon.

“Even a week ago, I would have said no way,” Patrick DeHaan, a senior petroleum analyst at GasBuddy, said when asked whether $2 gas comes as a surprise. “What a gift from OPEC. It’s the perfect time of year for this to happen.”
 
Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
kwillia said:
Holiday travelers are getting a nice gift this year with gasoline prices well below $3 a gallon in most states. Some drivers could pay even less than $2 this week after OPEC’s decision to stand still ignited a big selloff in oil.
Click to expand...


I've been saying it and I'll keep saying it; In order the us to recover, us being the middle class, oil has to be under $50 and debt needs to start being written off in exchange for higher interest rates. Consumer debt, credit cards, mortgages, THAT money instead of going to banks servicing dead wood, going to new purchases, new enterprise.

It's all a matter of how better to spread it all around. Banks sitting on it, watching the big get bigger and the small disappear, or, a land of many small kings.
 
stgislander

stgislander

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
Larry Gude said:
I've been saying it and I'll keep saying it; In order the us to recover, us being the middle class, oil has to be under $50 and debt needs to start being written off in exchange for higher interest rates. Consumer debt, credit cards, mortgages, THAT money instead of going to banks servicing dead wood, going to new purchases, new enterprise.

It's all a matter of how better to spread it all around. Banks sitting on it, watching the big get bigger and the small disappear, or, a land of many small kings.
Click to expand...

You've recommended this idea for a while now. Has there ever been a serious analysis of such a proposal?
 
Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
stgislander said:
You've recommended this idea for a while now. Has there ever been a serious analysis of such a proposal?
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I've done several. :diva: :lol:

It boils down to simple economics. If 'old' vendors' are getting most of the dough on products and services long since made and provided and really aren't making much on it, low interest rates, by definition, there are no new products and services going on. Worse yet, lending is strangled to only the people who don't need the money which simply causes consolidation as all sorts of venders needing capital collapse, more too big to fail, so that the bigger guys have more and more power to charge as they see fit once they feel enough power to do so.

If you run a shop, you want to write off old debt, eat the loss, so that you can do new products and services because your customers and their cash are now freed up. So, use the government to, instead of supporting bank balance sheets, help banks write off poor debt, get new lending going and charge higher rates. Business has dough, customers have money to spend. Plus, you stop the programs that caused the mess, the GSE's and their low rates. Let banks take the risks and reap the rewards.

It's a sort of Resolution Trust solution for the current mess; set it up, fix it, shut it down. That was the basis for the great Clinton economy. Bush 41 cleaned up the mess.
 
stgislander

stgislander

Well-Known Member
PREMO Member
Larry Gude said:
I've done several. :diva: :lol:

It boils down to simple economics. If 'old' vendors' are getting most of the dough on products and services long since made and provided and really aren't making much on it, low interest rates, by definition, there are no new products and services going on. Worse yet, lending is strangled to only the people who don't need the money which simply causes consolidation as all sorts of venders needing capital collapse, more too big to fail, so that the bigger guys have more and more power to charge as they see fit once they feel enough power to do so.

If you run a shop, you want to write off old debt, eat the loss, so that you can do new products and services because your customers and their cash are now freed up. So, use the government to, instead of supporting bank balance sheets, help banks write off poor debt, get new lending going and charge higher rates. Business has dough, customers have money to spend. Plus, you stop the programs that caused the mess, the GSE's and their low rates. Let banks take the risks and reap the rewards.

It's a sort of Resolution Trust solution for the current mess; set it up, fix it, shut it down. That was the basis for the great Clinton economy. Bush 41 cleaned up the mess.
Click to expand...

So besides you and then TJ telling you your idea is full of crap, no other serious analysis. Hell, TJ's negative vote is enough for me... let's give it a shot. :buddies:
 
Larry Gude

Larry Gude

Strung Out
stgislander said:
So besides you and then TJ telling you your idea is full of crap, no other serious analysis. Hell, TJ's negative vote is enough for me... let's give it a shot. :buddies:
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And THAT is how great change is started! :lol:

The problem we have goes back to Clinton and tax law changes where executives were no longer motivated by simple profit and loss and became motivated by stock prices. They are two VERY different concepts to drive an economy around. You can be losing money hand over fist but, showing huge growth, stock prices soars, you're bonus is 10-20 times, 100 times what you were ever gonna get paid by delivery products and services at profitable, competitive prices. And THAT is why TARP didn't fix the problem and why there is HUGE resistance to knocking all that 'value' off of balance sheets; at present, the honest profit to be earned is nothing compared to the riches to be reaped by stock prices. Figure that component out and we got us a ball game. The problem is that I start with the proposition that these people are going to have to accept giving up the HUGE payoffs for simply very good ones.

That is gonna have a lot of resistance.
 
SG_Player1974

SG_Player1974

New Member
Ha... people think it is bad here!

Just got back from holiday travel to the Detroit area. They have a bit different set of rules about gas pricing/gouging up there. It is very common to see prices like $2.70/gal during the day. Once the clock hits around 4pm, those same prices would roll to $2.99/gal!

Sometime around 6-6:30pm the price was back down to $2.70. This was EVERY day I was there!

Apparently, in Michigan, they are allowed to change their prices as long as they do not go over the mandated "gouging" price change.
 
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