Ain't this chart pretty? (Gas prices)

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
And pricing, what kind of costs am I looking at to for, say, a thousand gallons of storage capacity? :lol:



we had a tank at my previous job .....
concrete pad, grounded tank ... etc
i'll bet it is easier if you own a farm .....

if you are smart about it, and camouflage the tank, you might slide it in on the down low
...... getting it refiled might be a problem

http://abovegroundfuelstoragetanks.com/


thanks to the EPA these are only good for water;

http://www.roverparts.com/Parts/GJC20



you could just purchase a surplus M-35A1 with a fuel tank [gasoline]




:whistle:
 
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Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
I guess they needed something to blame it on huh?


You do not pay any attention to the stock market, obviously. Same thing. Heck, pork bellys were more volatile than oil for a while there. "Markets" are all...all...about how perceptions and guesses factor in to pricing and trading. "Is it going to go up?..and why...or down?..and why?" The traders that deal with petroleum and derivatives have surely been wanting to "test for a bottom" for at least a month or more. Frankly...I doubt they have found it yet. Can't blame 'em for trying though/
 
I see the price at the pump has gone up ~$0.20/gallon in the last week! :faint:

Anyone care to speculate why?? :popcorn:

I don't know that we need to speculate, the reasons are fairly straightforward. Sure, when we consider what might happen with oil and gas prices going forward we're going to be speculating a good deal. We don't know what is going to happen on various fronts and we surely don't know what the market is going to come to expect on those various fronts. But when we're talking about what has already happened, it's usually pretty easy to understand why it did (at least when it comes to significant moves or trends). Such is the nature of energy pricing markets, they behave fairly rationally based on the givens - at least more so than a lot of other marketable instruments' pricing markets do because, for one thing, energy markets are on a shorter clock so to speak for getting pricing correct than some of those other markets are (If it isn't clear what I mean by that, I'm happy to explain it and why it's the case). It's not knowing all those givens ahead of time that makes it difficult to further know what the markets will come to expect as to those givens and then how those markets will behave in response to those givens and their own expectations.

Anyway, to answer your question, pump prices have been going up over the last couple of weeks because wholesale gas prices have been going up for the last few weeks. To go a little further on gas prices in particular before turning to petroleum pricing in general, those wholesale gas prices turned around and started up shortly after total U.S. gasoline inventories flattened in what looks (for now) to represent a peak. For a couple of months U.S. gasoline stocks had been climbing steadily and rapidly, going from about 200 million barrels to about 240 million barrels. In other words, supply was exceeding demand by about 4 million barrels per week on average over that time. About a month ago those inventories stopped building and, as of the latest reported week, they're fairly flat - we didn't see a major increase over those weeks. Supply and demand have, perhaps, stabilized for the most part. (It is, of course, too soon to tell with the condition will hold.) So that's why gas prices have, it seems, bottomed for now. Have they bottomed for good or at least for a long while? I'm not entirely convinced, but I'd guess it's more likely than not that they have.

As for crude oil prices, which are up considerably over the last couple of weeks, and to put it simply - we're seeing more and more indication that the low prices are working, that is to say that future production expansion will be slowed by prices having gotten this low. Oil market pricing depends first and foremost on supply / demand balances - but, importantly, on speculation about supply / demand balances in the future, not necessarily actual current supply / demand balances. That's why, as markets can't know for sure what's going to happen in the future to affect supply / demand balances, oil pricing can be wrong at times (and almost always will be wrong to some small degree). But, for reasons I've referred to before, it can only be wrong by so much for so long before it has to correct. Previously it was (we realize now) wrong enough for long enough that a major correction was needed - the mis-pricing itself significantly affected supply / demand balances (which is why pricing can only be so wrong for so long). That's what we've been seeing and benefitting from over the last 6 months or so. But as has been said before, not only did pricing have to correct it had to overcorrect in order to suck up the significant excess supply that had been created by incorrect (i.e. too high) pricing. That's why oil prices have gotten as low as they have.

At some point though oil prices were going to find a bottom. And, at some point, they were going to start creeping back - the overcorrection could only last so long (unless we saw some other major changes / trends relating to oil production / consumption). Future supply expectations would decrease enough and/or future demand expectations would increase enough as a result of lower prices that higher oil prices would be called for based on those changed expectations. Now, for my own part, I'm not completely convinced we've seen the bottom for oil prices or that the bottom we have seen won't be retested. Only time will tell. But oil pricing markets have seen considerable evidence that lower prices are going to affect how much new oil production is added this year. New well permits have fallen considerably. Energy companies are announcing layoffs and revising rig (usage) projections downward. Rig counts (i.e. those currently being used) have been falling. Companies are announcing major reductions in their capital expenditures for this year - in other words, they aren't going to be spending nearly as much money trying to develop additional production because, at current crude prices, it doesn't make as much sense to spend that much money. BP last week added its name to the list of companies tightening their purse strings, and oil pricing responded immediately by moving upward.

Crude production 6 months from now will not be as much as it would have been 6 months from now had oil prices not fallen so drastically. There's little doubt about that now. (Though, to be clear again, we're only talking about a small portion of overall production - but that portion is what matters when it comes to pricing.) Is it enough? Are production loses going to be enough to justify oil prices going meaningfully higher? Who knows? But the point is, if you want to know why oil pricing (and gas pricing) has been moving back up of late, it is pretty simple: Pricing markets, at least at this moment, think supply will be cut enough and/or demand will be boosted enough to bring supply and demand back into balance (at higher prices). So, prices move higher. It isn't rocket science. Though we can't really know ahead of time when particular price movements are going to happen, we do understand what it is that will make them happen - the general cause, not necessarily the specific causes. And when they do happen, it isn't hard to identify the general cause (or often even the specific causes).
 
I just noticed that the price at the closest gas station to me is now $2.139, it was $2.079 (IIRC) a couple days ago. :frown:

Heating oil (i.e. off-road diesel) at that station is also up to $2.519 from $2.449 (IIRC) last week.

...

As of yesterday, the gas price was $2.199 and the OR diesel price was $2.539. :frown:
 
I just noticed that the price at the closest gas station to me is now $2.139, it was $2.079 (IIRC) a couple days ago. :frown:

Heating oil (i.e. off-road diesel) at that station is also up to $2.519 from $2.449 (IIRC) last week.

Gas was $2.299 and OR diesel was $2.649 at the same station as of yesterday.
 
March contracts for RBOB gas are at about $1.63. That's not particularly noteworthy, they've been bouncing around there or a little below for a while - though that is about 35 cents above where the front month contract was about 5 weeks ago.

But I just noticed that April, May, and June contracts for RBOB are all above $1.80.

So... I suspect the pump price creep up isn't over yet.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
I put 70 gallons of diesel in a truck yesterday....what a "bounce" the cost of that took! More than 40 cents a gallon up from the lowest barely a month ago.... ;-(
 
I'm seeing three things in petroleum futures pricing that I'd make note of. We've seen these things before, they're not particularly bizarre or anything; but I'd say they tend to be bad signs when it comes to likely future oil and gas prices.

First, there's once again a big spread between WTI and Brent Oil. (The following represents an overly-simplified and not strictly-true characterization, but it might be somewhat helpful in understanding the significance of that spread: We might generally think of WTI as the U.S. oil price bellwether and Brent as the global oil price bellwether.) The front month-contract (April) for WTI is now at about $49 while the front-month contract for Brent is at about $61. That's quite a large spread.

Second, significant contango is developing in WTI pricing. The contract price 6 months out is about $8 higher than for the front month, and the price 12 months out is about $12 higher.

Third, RBOB gas contract pricing has dissociated to a degree from WTI contract pricing. It's more inline with Brent pricing than with WTI pricing right now. And it's up significantly over the last month while WTI pricing is up more modestly. The front month for RBOB is still March, and its price has risen quite a bit; but April's price is even higher, about 20 cents higher than March's at over $1.90.
 
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