And now...

[This_person]

And here's why I'm an atheist - tell me if I'm being illogical: I'm an atheist about the Big Three like you're probably an atheist over the Olympian and Norse gods -- I doubt you believe in Zeus and Odin. I simply add Yahweh and Yeshuah to that list. If some evidence came along to prove Zeus, Odin, or Yahweh, I'd accept that proof. Pretty simple!

And, I understand that. Certainly I don't think that Zeus is God. It's also why I'm not Jewish - Jesus is the reason that I believe. I come to Christianity, to God, to religion in general through Him. Through reading His words as reported (yes, I know, it's as reported by others, years later, etc., etc., but it's still as reported). Through the concept that..... well, this is where it branches into very personal and long and complicated. Both from a purely objective look - the ancient meteorologist/astronimist as "priest" concept, etc - and from personal experiences. I don't put Jesus in the same catagory, with the full knowledge and understanding that they would not have put in him in the same category either, but the other way around.

 

[wxtornado]

And, I understand that. Certainly I don't think that Zeus is God. It's also why I'm not Jewish - Jesus is the reason that I believe. I come to Christianity, to God, to religion in general through Him. Through reading His words as reported (yes, I know, it's as reported by others, years later, etc., etc., but it's still as reported). Through the concept that..... well, this is where it branches into very personal and long and complicated. Both from a purely objective look - the ancient meteorologist/astronimist as "priest" concept, etc - and from personal experiences. I don't put Jesus in the same catagory, with the full knowledge and understanding that they would not have put in him in the same category either, but the other way around.

See, from where I sit, you believe simply because you want to.

For example, what the bible says to me is not important whatsoever. Quoting the bible to me is like me quoting Bulfinche's Mythology to you. Are you going to believe that Prometheus is chained to a rock and an eagle eats out his regenerating liver every day as punishment for bringing fire to mankind?

I doubt it. And when previous mythologies claim "If you do not believe in this story, you are a fool" -- does that mean they are truthful assertions? The bible is meaningless to me as a perspective of actual truth.

A book of poetry? Yes. A fascinating document of the history of man's belief in a world he cannot easily comprehend? Absolutely.

But "the divine word of God"? No, I have read it and it doesn't support any conclusion that a God exists.

But you do believe a man died and came back from the dead. You do believe that a sea parted so some slaves could escape Pharoah. You do believe water into wine. You do believe a man walked on water.

What's the difference between those and Prometheus? To me, they are all fantastical tales with no proof behind them.

 

[This_person]

See, from where I sit, you believe simply because you want to.

It is much, much more than that, but I can't prove it to you.

What's the difference between those and Prometheus? To me, they are all fantastical tales with no proof behind them.

Do you know anyone of credibility that denies Jesus's existence? Not his status as son of God, just his existence? I'm guessing not.

Now, this guy was out there. Maybe (just maybe, mind you) the Bible embelishes a little bit on the stories. Even so, this isn't the Canterbury Tales, this is a group of stories about a guy who really existed. And, they've lasted for two millenium. Do you think anyone will have any clue who Abe Lincoln is, or Pastor Wright two thousand years from now? Maybe some geek historian who combed through the ruble of what was America and found an old text book or, God forbid, a TV commercial for a sleep product. But, there's barely a person on the planet (I didn't say no one, I said very few people with respect to the whole world population) who don't at least know who Jesus is. And, this is a real guy.

That's how it's different than Prometheus. You seem a very smart person, I don't think I need to fill in the dots for what that means.

 

[tommyjones]

It is much, much more than that, but I can't prove it to you.Do you know anyone of credibility that denies Jesus's existence? Not his status as son of God, just his existence? I'm guessing not.

Now, this guy was out there. Maybe (just maybe, mind you) the Bible embelishes a little bit on the stories. Even so, this isn't the Canterbury Tales, this is a group of stories about a guy who really existed. And, they've lasted for two millenium. Do you think anyone will have any clue who Abe Lincoln is, or Pastor Wright two thousand years from now? Maybe some geek historian who combed through the ruble of what was America and found an old text book or, God forbid, a TV commercial for a sleep product. But, there's barely a person on the planet (I didn't say no one, I said very few people with respect to the whole world population) who don't at least know who Jesus is. And, this is a real guy.

That's how it's different than Prometheus. You seem a very smart person, I don't think I need to fill in the dots for what that means.

do you doubt that ulyses existed? there are stories about him that have lasted much much longer, and in these stories there are common interactions with the gods.
so we have a person who really existed, AND stories that remain today with plenty of archeological evidence to support the events and places were real, embellished maybe, but real none the less.

 

[wxtornado]

It is much, much more than that, but I can't prove it to you.Do you know anyone of credibility that denies Jesus's existence? Not his status as son of God, just his existence? I'm guessing not.

Now, this guy was out there. Maybe (just maybe, mind you) the Bible embelishes a little bit on the stories. Even so, this isn't the Canterbury Tales, this is a group of stories about a guy who really existed. And, they've lasted for two millenium. Do you think anyone will have any clue who Abe Lincoln is, or Pastor Wright two thousand years from now? Maybe some geek historian who combed through the ruble of what was America and found an old text book or, God forbid, a TV commercial for a sleep product. But, there's barely a person on the planet (I didn't say no one, I said very few people with respect to the whole world population) who don't at least know who Jesus is. And, this is a real guy.

That's how it's different than Prometheus. You seem a very smart person, I don't think I need to fill in the dots for what that means.

You have to realize that people worshiped Hercules thousands of years ago, just like they worship Jesus today. And in so many years, another deity will probably replace Jesus.

What difference is there between Jesus and Hercules for instance? Zeus (Jehovah) impregnated in some fashion with a human woman, and from her was born a demi-god with amazing powers who could perform miraculous feats.

Even a cursory glance at mythologies will show repetitive themes of man's salvation coming from the intercession of the gods with humans on a human playing field. It's archetypical, and makes perfect sense given man's level of sophisticated self-awareness.

And it's inspiring as well. Music, art, poetry, literature, even science all have been motivated and driven by this mythos. But to believe it is real is where the problems occur. It's value is lost when it becomes something that confers status on people for accepting or not accepting. Kept in the proper perspective, there's a lot to be said for these stories. Outside of that perspective, chaos truly reigns.

 

[This_person]

do you doubt that ulyses existed? there are stories about him that have lasted much much longer, and in these stories there are common interactions with the gods.
so we have a person who really existed, AND stories that remain today with plenty of archeological evidence to support the events and places were real, embellished maybe, but real none the less.

Yes, I doubt that the character created by Homer existed, much as I doubt Jack Ryan of Tom Clancey fame actually exists. There is a difference between a story, and a real guy.

Or, do you doubt the existence of the actual guy Jesus?

 

[tommyjones]

Yes, I doubt that the character created by Homer existed, much as I doubt Jack Ryan of Tom Clancey fame actually exists. There is a difference between a story, and a real guy.

Or, do you doubt the existence of the actual guy Jesus?

I said i dont doubt that there was a person by that name at that time.
just like historians believe that the Homeric hero was a real person.
there is no proof otherwise, and the timelessness of the stories is indication that people beleived.

What evidence do you have to indicate he didn't exist?

 

[This_person]

I said i dont doubt that there was a person by that name at that time.
just like historians believe that the Homeric hero was a real person.
there is no proof otherwise, and the timelessness of the stories is indication that people beleived.

What evidence do you have to indicate he didn't exist?

Who thinks Zeus's boy was real? Like, and actual walking-around kind of person? We have written evidence (far beyond the Bible) of an actual Jesus, what is there of Homer?

 

[This_person]

You have to realize that people worshiped Hercules thousands of years ago, just like they worship Jesus today. And in so many years, another deity will probably replace Jesus.

What difference is there between Jesus and Hercules for instance? Zeus (Jehovah) impregnated in some fashion with a human woman, and from her was born a demi-god with amazing powers who could perform miraculous feats.

Even a cursory glance at mythologies will show repetitive themes of man's salvation coming from the intercession of the gods with humans on a human playing field. It's archetypical, and makes perfect sense given man's level of sophisticated self-awareness.

And it's inspiring as well. Music, art, poetry, literature, even science all have been motivated and driven by this mythos. But to believe it is real is where the problems occur. It's value is lost when it becomes something that confers status on people for accepting or not accepting. Kept in the proper perspective, there's a lot to be said for these stories. Outside of that perspective, chaos truly reigns.

A cursory glance for repeating themes? Sure. A closer inspection for facts? Not even close.

I mean, you don't doubt Jesus's actual, physical presence, do you?

 

[wxtornado]

I mean, you don't doubt Jesus's actual, physical presence, do you?

Sure, there could have been a person named Jesus in these times. I don't see any proof of it though.

 

[mAlice]

A cursory glance for repeating themes? Sure. A closer inspection for facts? Not even close.

I mean, you don't doubt Jesus's actual, physical presence, do you?

With all that I don't believe, I have believed for a long time that there was a person named Jesus. With regard to things I've read or watched recently, I now have doubts about his existance.

 

[tommyjones]

Who thinks Zeus's boy was real? Like, and actual walking-around kind of person? We have written evidence (far beyond the Bible) of an actual Jesus, what is there of Homer?

there is lots of evidence that the places and events of the homeric story are/were real. I see no reason to doubt that a person named ulysses that did at least some version of the things described in the story.
As to hercules, i think he was most likely a real person too. no more the son of god than the man who claimed to be so 2000 years ago.....

 

[This_person]

With all that I don't believe, I have believed for a long time that there was a person named Jesus. With regard to things I've read or watched recently, I now have doubts about his existance.

I hope you don't mean this thread!

Seriously, hello mAlice, it's nice to see you join the conversation!

I know there have been many things "discovered" recently that call into question Jesus's existence. It does seem odd to me that such a "farce", if that's what they're claiming it is (his existence) could have been carried on for so long.

 

[This_person]

there is lots of evidence that the places and events of the homeric story are/were real. I see no reason to doubt that a person named ulysses that did at least some version of the things described in the story.
As to hercules, i think he was most likely a real person too. no more the son of god than the man who claimed to be so 2000 years ago.....

So you equate Homer with Moses?

 

[tommyjones]

So you equate Homer with Moses?

no, homer was a real person who told a story.

 

[mAlice]

I hope you don't mean this thread!

Seriously, hello mAlice, it's nice to see you join the conversation!

I know there have been many things "discovered" recently that call into question Jesus's existence. It does seem odd to me that such a "farce", if that's what they're claiming it is (his existence) could have been carried on for so long.

It doesn't seem odd to me in the least. Any other myth could have just as easily taken the same direction.

 

[This_person]

It doesn't seem odd to me in the least. Any other myth could have just as easily taken the same direction.

It's possible. Just seems unlikely to me.

 

[tommyjones]

It's possible. Just seems unlikely to me.

as unlikely as a child being born to a true virgin?

 

[This_person]

as unlikely as a child being born to a true virgin?

Each person, through their own experiences and beliefs, is able to choose what they see as more or less likely, that's for sure!