Another trip to Arlington...

[itsbob]

If it were me, I'd do an "all hands on deck" and pull troops out of less important duty stations and send them to Iraq. We still have troops in places like Germany and Japan that don't need to be there. We have troops in South America that could easily be deployed to Iraq.

Now, I'm not some brilliant military strategist, but I also don't have to play politics. I say bring in overwhelming force, secure the country and get it over with. Forget this "winning hearts and minds" bull#### - they'll thank us later.

A lot of brilliant military minds said the same thing before the war started.. They didn't agree with Rumsfeld and were soon looking for new employment.

Rumsfeld was the biggest mistake Bush made, and putting his faith into a poitician with NO military background was beyond belief. It's good to work for someone that supports you and has your back, but when people "in the know" are saying something different, he should have listened.

Now he's trying to correct the mistake, personally I don't think 25,000 is going to do it, but when you have no solidarity, the democrats second guessing and coming out publicly and saying "They're winning, lets leave" empowering the enemy to continue the fight, I think at this point he's doing what he thinks will be the least harmful to the country as a whole.

Forestal posted about his 28% in the polls.. I think that should be a badge of courage the president should wear. He trys to do right despite the polls, and trys to protect his country despite the polls.. he trys to do right despite the press.. and continues to protect his fellow countrymen because I honestly believe he gets it, he understands the consequence of losing.

 

[kwillia]

Rumsfeld was the biggest mistake Bush made, and putting his faith into a poitician with NO military background was beyond belief. It's good to work for someone that supports you and has your back, but when people "in the know" are saying something different, he should have listened.

*DING-DING-DING*

 

[Larry Gude]

You and I are united...

As a citizen of this country I feel completely responsible for F'ing it up as soon as we finished marching on Baghdad. It didn't have to be this way... I don't like the thought of more of our troops getting killed and maimed but I also don't think we have much of a choice. I do have faith that our troops can kick azz and take names if there are given the chance. The freakin' desk "generals" and the MEDIA need to stop tying their hands....

...we are responsible.

We expected Iraqi's to see the opportunity we provided and sieze it.

Iraq's President has stated he thinks his nation is becoming able to secure itself and, if memory serves, should be in good shape by summer. All he has asked us for after that is weapons.

At some point, don't we have to accept what they choose to do?

 

[Larry Gude]

Which are...

I honestly believe he gets it, he understands the consequence of losing.

....what? What are the consequneces of 'losing'? The 'enemy' is vastly Iraqi people.

I can't say this enough; the Iraq War resolutuion stipulated deposing Saddam. Check. Establishing a democracy. Check. Verifying the WMD issue. Check.

 

[MMDad]

Rumsfeld was the biggest mistake Bush made, and putting his faith into a poitician with NO military background was beyond belief.

Rumsfeld did not have "NO military background."

He was a Navy pilot, was a drilling reservist until 1975, and retired from the USNR in 1989 as a Captain.

 

[itsbob]

With that, if the Islamocrats truly wanted our men and women home, they would come out and support the President, and tell the world how we are winning and kicking ass, and that we won't quit until every sorry SOB there intending to hurt a fellow American is dead. Let's put the blame where the blame belongs, don't say you support the troops, then out of the side of your mouth say "We are losing, bring them home" that does nobody any good, and cost more good Americans their lives.

Solidarity, that's what will end this war and make most of the "insurgency" drop their weapons and go home. Now what they see is weakness, cracks in our resolve, and as long as we let them keep talking, they will continue to take up arms against us.

 

[Larry Gude]

Thank...

Rumsfeld did not have "NO military background."

He was a Navy pilot, was a drilling reservist until 1975, and retired from the USNR in 1989 as a Captain.

...you.


Maybe he meant no one should be Secdef if they haven't been Secdef before?

 

[kwillia]

...we are responsible.

We expected Iraqi's to see the opportunity we provided and sieze it.

Iraq's President has stated he thinks his nation is becoming able to secure itself and, if memory serves, should be in good shape by summer. All he has asked us for after that is weapons.

At some point, don't we have to accept what they choose to do?

Ya want my vision of the future... I envision this latest surge of troops is being done so that we can offer even more reinforcement of the Iraqi troops and will then storm the doors and thin the insurgent herd. The writing is already on the wall for that... ex: statement that Sadr no longer "protected"... doors are already being stormed albiet on a small scale.... I'm thinking(hoping) the promise of this surge in troops was done with a behind the scenes agreement with Iraq that they need to shape up because we will begin to ship out when the surge dies down.

This is my dream of the future.

 

[MMDad]

...you.


Maybe he meant no one should be Secdef if they haven't been Secdef before?

You mean like Rummy was 75-77?

 

[PsyOps]

...9/11 = Iraq

Very nice.

Al Queda had very little, if anything, to do with Iraq. Al Queda had far more of a relationship with Saudi nationals. So, naturally, after 19 mostly Saudi's with boxcutters hijack US airlines, we invade Iraq.

What do we do?

Timetables.

Bush's definition of victory is "a free, stable and secure Iraq". Based on what? His opinion? This on top of already having accomplished our original mission of deposing Saddam, installing a democracy (oxymoronic in it's own right) and verified the WMD situation.

Iraq has the manpower and the training to take control of their nation in our absence. We can't give them the will. We can give them the motivation.


Or, we just keep doing what we're doing and say it's to complicated to leave.

Since you aren't paying attention to your own posts allow me to illuminate my point for you.

Then, objectively, you have to convince yourself that their sacrifice was the only and best option we had in order to deal with Usama (the perpetrator of 911) and Saddam and global terror.

I don't suppose you remember the "Axil of Evil" speech in which Democrats and Republicans all stood together in rounding applause then subsequently signed that all-famous (and beat up by me endlessly in this forum) Iraq War Resolution.

We finish what we started. We don't finish what we started based on your obscure, undefined end of this war. That's why we have a CINC that was elected by the American people. Not by Congress, not by some left-wing definition of how a president should conduct presidential business. Congress gave him the green light and now they want to change their minds. Now they want to change the rules. And so do you. That's not how things work and you know it.

I don't pretend to make some far-fetched connection between 911 and Iraq. You did. Congress gave Bush authorization and now you have a problem with that, so you are reaching for anything you can to dismiss history and what's defined under the Constitution when it comes to war. One more time... Congress grants the president to send our troops to war. Our president AS CINC fights the war, not Congress.

 

[Larry Gude]

See...

Ya want my vision of the future... I envision this latest surge of troops is being done so that we can offer even more reinforcement of the Iraqi troops and will then storm the doors and thin the insurgent herd. The writing is already on the wall for that... ex: statement that Sadr no longer "protected"... doors are already being stormed albiet on a small scale.... I'm thinking(hoping) the promise of this surge in troops was done with a behind the scenes agreement with Iraq that they need to shape up because we will begin to ship out when the surge dies down.

This is my dream of the future.

....that's what is so effed up about all this. When Sadr first came on the scene in late '03 or so, every single military commentator on the tube and in print said the exact same thing; this guy has got to go ( ) because you (we) can not afford for him to become an established figure of power because it WILL undermine the fledgling government.

Seemed obvious to me.

 

[itsbob]

Rumsfeld did not have "NO military background."

He was a Navy pilot, was a drilling reservist until 1975, and retired from the USNR in 1989 as a Captain.

Navy Pilot.. I'm sorry, I guess he was more experienced then the Infantry and Cavalry Generals that have been to war(s), that have fought on the ground.. that defeated the Iraqui Army before.

I was wrong, but I don't think being a pilot in the Navy gives you the same experience or knowledge as someone that has commanded regiments, divisions and Armies.

 

[kwillia]

....that's what is so effed up about all this. When Sadr first came on the scene in late '03 or so, every single military commentator on the tube and in print said the exact same thing; this guy has got to go ( ) because you (we) can not afford for him to become an established figure of power because it WILL undermine the fledgling government.

Seemed obvious to me.

And what is equally sad is that the powers that be could have better handled the division in factions had they bothered to spend two hours watching "Kings: From Babylon to Bahgdad" on the History Channel. Heck, One hour in on the eliptical had me realizing we totally ignored the faction facts.

 

[itsbob]

Rumsfeld served in the U.S. Navy from 1954 to 1957 as a naval aviator and flight instructor. His initial training was in the North American SNJ Texan basic trainer after which he transitioned to flying the Grumman F9F Panther fighter. In 1957, he transferred to the Naval Reserve and continued his naval service in flying and administrative assignments as a drilling reservist until 1975. He transferred to the standby reserve when he became Secretary of Defense in 1975 and retired with the rank of Navy Captain in 1989

1954 - 1957?????

Granted he was a good man, and he has a lifetime of service to his country, but I don't think he was the right man for this job.

 

[vraiblonde]

Solidarity, that's what will end this war and make most of the "insurgency" drop their weapons and go home. Now what they see is weakness, cracks in our resolve, and as long as we let them keep talking, they will continue to take up arms against us.

I couldn't agree more. This is what happened in Vietnam - the enemy sees that they can wear you down, so they do.

I hate to keep bringing my kids into this, but kids are a lot like insurgents. If parents don't show a united front, they'll play them against each other to get what they want. But when both Mom and Dad are on board, the kids will generally give up the fight. Parenting is a lot like global politics - same concept.

 

[Larry Gude]

Ok...

Since you aren't paying attention to your own posts allow me to illuminate my point for you.


I don't suppose you remember the "Axil of Evil" speech in which Democrats and Republicans all stood together in rounding applause then subsequently signed that all-famous (and beat up by me endlessly in this forum) Iraq War Resolution.

We finish what we started. We don't finish what we started based on your obscure, undefined end of this war. That's why we have a CINC that was elected by the American people. Not by Congress, not by some left-wing definition of how a president should conduct presidential business. Congress gave him the green light and now they want to change their minds. Now they want to change the rules. And so do you. That's not how things work and you know it.

I don't pretend to make some far-fetched connection between 911 and Iraq. You did. Congress gave Bush authorization and now you have a problem with that, so you are reaching for anything you can to dismiss history and what's defined under the Constitution when it comes to war. One more time... Congress grants the president to send out troops to war. Our president AS CINC fights the war, not Congress.

...let's go! U S A! U S A! Go, Bush, go!

In case you haven't noticed, I've stopped engaging you any more because I think you basically ignore my points and flounder around with anything you can use to justify continuing this debacle. Maybe I'm just not making my self clear. Maybe I have no clue. Maybe I have no point. Whatever.

USA! USA!

Hmmm. This is much easier! USA! USA!

 

[kwillia]

I couldn't agree more. This is what happened in Vietnam - the enemy sees that they can wear you down, so they do.

I hate to keep bringing my kids into this, but kids are a lot like insurgents. If parents don't show a united front, they'll play them against each other to get what they want. But when both Mom and Dad are on board, the kids will generally give up the fight. Parenting is a lot like global politics - same concept.

... and if the parents can't keep their kids in line someone of authority is going to come along and boot them off the proverbial plane.

 

[Larry Gude]

You may be right...

I couldn't agree more. This is what happened in Vietnam - the enemy sees that they can wear you down, so they do.

I hate to keep bringing my kids into this, but kids are a lot like insurgents. If parents don't show a united front, they'll play them against each other to get what they want. But when both Mom and Dad are on board, the kids will generally give up the fight. Parenting is a lot like global politics - same concept.

...Alex made dinner last night, totally out of the blue. I missed it as did you. I just noticed the leftovers ate a whole in my $900 trash can. They may be adjusting their tactics...

 

[vraiblonde]

...Alex made dinner last night, totally out of the blue. I missed it as did you. I just noticed the leftovers ate a whole in my $900 trash can. They may be adjusting their tactics...

Well, she DID say it made both her and Emilie sick.

 

[cattitude]

...Alex made dinner last night, totally out of the blue. I missed it as did you. I just noticed the leftovers ate a whole in my $900 trash can. They may be adjusting their tactics...

flap...slam...flap...slam...



sorry......