As in the days of Noah.....

[godsbutterfly]

In the Natural History Museum?

I believe so. The only other one I went to was Air & Space and I don't think it was there! It was right there near the Mummy and the Rome Civilization displays.

 

[suzanne]

Nucklesack, your not being ignored. I've been thinking of how best to answer your questions, but no matter how I answer you will still maintain your non-belief. But I will give you this. The Bible was written for all people for all time. There are scenarios that are as contemporary to us now as it was then, Such as Gen. 19:23.

I imagine as many lst century Palestinians beliefs are commensurate to todays. I know that disciples and Jesus' followers and evangelists suffered and were tortured for their beliefs. Peter was crucified upside down. Stephen was stoned to death. Paul was flogged 5 times. Their beliefs were unshakable.

I've said before that peoples' hearts can be hardened and no matter what is said or done their minds will not be changed. The Bible says even in Tribulation this will happen. But even you said it is all a matter of faith. You are absolutely correct in that. It takes faith.

 

[baydoll]

Have you researched Islam?
No have you researched Islam? your the one espousing a Pascal's Wager

Since you only believe in hedging your bets you should be the one researching other beliefs.... Just in case

Most indeed I have as well as many other religions.....have you?

As well as true Christianity?

 

[baydoll]

Morning all!

I am just getting online and will answer the rest of your questions but first I am going to have breakfast and take care of some business....

 

[baydoll]

#286 (permalink)
Nucklesack
Registered User




Member Since: Sep 2006
Location: Southern Maryland
Posts: 3,429 I did ask some very direct questions, that were ignored, maybe you can answer them :
Quote:
Are Bats really birds? (Leviticus 11:13)

Rabbits chew a Cud? (Deuteronomy 14:7-8)

Is the Mustard seed the smallest seed? (Mathew 13:32)

Does the Mustard seed grow into a tree? (Mathew 13:32)

Does the Earth Move ? (Hebrews 1:10)

Baydoll (and others) sidestep this, because to answer them would mean they had to admit Jesus was wrong, by claiming either :
The Bible was written for those at the Time
Which then leads to the question, was the bible written for you me and everyone throughout time, or was it written for a 2000 year-old audience that was confined to a geographical area the size of Vermont? Does it matter that I can not understand or believe the bible, as long as a first century Palestinian could?

And what about the problem with a reverse analysis of the situation? How many first century palestinians believed in the gospels? And how many people believe in it today?

If the bible made more sense to people in first century palestine than it makes to people today, then why didn't virtually all first century palestinians believe in it? They had all the tools to understand it. It should have made perfect sense to them.

They had no reason to doubt it, compared to the reasons we have today. So what gives?(Still nothing with this, and its been asked 3 times in this thread)
It was an error in the translation
Which should make you logically ask, "how can you emphatically trust the accuracy of a document when you KNOW it is replete with errors" or "what makes allows you to trust the trustworthiness of a book when even you can admit there are mistranslations in it. Should make you wonder about the infallabity of a document you KNOW is rife with errors". (we really dont expect anyone to touch this one)

/Bump

Am I on ignore?

No, Sweetie. If you noticed, you guys swamp me with a lot of questions and I can only do so much...

I do have a life outside of this forum, Hon. And a very busy one at that.

I will try and answer YOUR questions first after I take care of some business, how's that? Just for you, sweetie-pie!

 

[baydoll]

Are Bats really birds? (Leviticus 11:13)

This I already answered.

Rabbits chew a Cud? (Deuteronomy 14:7-8)

Well, let's see...

…”The Hebrew word which has been translated "hare" is 'arnebeth'. Strong's comments, "...probably an extinct animal because no known hare chews its cud, exact meaning is unknown..." Rather than providing a transliteration of the Hebrew, and admitting that we do not know for certain what this creature is/was, translators have rendered it "hare" or "rabbit."
Having said this, even if we accept the translation of "hare", there is not a problem. Interestingly, Moses was not the only ancient writer to include a "hare" as being common with those that chew the cud. Aristotle did the same. “

Is the Mustard seed the smallest seed? (Mathew 13:32)

No.

The mustard seed is not the smallest of all seeds. Jesus was speaking proverbially. That is, he wasn't making a statement of absolute fact but using a proverbial style of communication.
There are different kinds of mustard trees in Israel and the mustard seed was the smallest of all the seeds known there and used by those in Israel. Also, notice that Jesus says that when it is full grown it is larger than the garden plants and becomes a tree so that the birds nest in it. There were many gardens in Israel with many types of plants, many of which were larger than the mustard plant. The olive tree for example, can grow to 20 feet or more. The mustard tree known as Salvadora persica has extremely small seeds and grows into a small bush. Brassica nigra is a mustard plant that grows to about 8 to 10 feet when mature and is probably the one Jesus was using for his illustration. Jesus would have known that it wasn't the largest of garden plants because of the prevalence of larger plants. Therefore, he was not making a botanical statement of fact. Instead, he was drawing attention to the comparison of the "smallest" to the "largest" and using it to illustrate how the Kingdom of heaven will expand in the world from a very small beginning to a huge presence.
Also, Jesus used the mustard seed elsewhere in a proverbial sense.
"And He *said to them, “Because of the littleness of your faith; for truly I say to you, if you have faith as a mustard seed, you shall say to this mountain, ‘Move from here to there,’ and it shall move; and nothing shall be impossible to you," (Matt. 17:20; see also Luke 17:5).
So, we see that Jesus used the mustard seed in illustrations in the style of proverbs to illustrate a point and that he was not speaking in a scientifically accurate sense."

Does the Mustard seed grow into a tree? (Mathew 13:32)

See above.

Does the Earth Move ? (Hebrews 1:10)

Hebrews 1:10-12 states:

In the beginning, Lord, You established the earth, and the heavens are the works of Your hands; they will perish, but You remain. They will all wear out like clothing; You will roll them up like a cloak, and they will be changed like a robe. But You are the same, and Your years will never end.

Please point out where that says the Earth doesn’t move.

Why do you ignore all the in the Bible that clearly state it does move?

For example:


Ps. 99:1: “The Lord reigneth ... let the earth be moved.”
Job 26:7: “He ... hangeth the earth upon nothing.
Is. 24:19: “the earth is moved exceedingly.”
Is. 44:24: “I am the Lord that spreadeth abroad the earth by myself;”

That's it for now...I'll be back later.

 

[baydoll]

Which then leads to the question, was the bible written for you me and everyone throughout time, or was it written for a 2000 year-old audience that was confined to a geographical area the size of Vermont? Does it matter that I can not understand or believe the bible, as long as a first century Palestinian could?

How do you explain all the millions of people throughout history on up to now who DO understands the Bible?

 

[baydoll]

And what about the problem with a reverse analysis of the situation? How many first century palestinians believed in the gospels?

According to history there were many. Case in point: look how many Christians were put to death by Nero. The Apostles were all Jews. The first century Church were mostly Jewish. So they all must have believed in the Gospel, I mean they all died for it. Some of them horribly so.

And how many people believe in it today?

I know quite a few.

 

[baydoll]

If the bible made more sense to people in first century palestine than it makes to people today, then why didn't virtually all first century palestinians believe in it? They had all the tools to understand it. It should have made perfect sense to them.

How do you know that virtually all of the first century palestinians didn't believe in it? There were quite a few who did.

The first time the Apostle Peter preached there were 5,000 palestinians that not only BELIEVED in it but became the first Christians and the church came into being. They were all Jews.

As for those who didn't believe in it it is for the very same reason many (yourself included) in today’s world don’t believe in it. You don’t want to believe in it. Your minds are made up. They hated Him and His message and His followers, just like you hate Him and His message and His followers. They rejected Him. You reject Him. They persecuted Him. You persecute Him. After they killed Him they then went after His followers and persecuted them… just like you do.

Human nature never changes. People are the same then as they are now. There will always be people who will never 'believe' because their minds are already made up and therefore CLOSED to anything and everything that calls itself by the name of Jesus Christ.

Just as there will always be a 'remnant' that DOES believes and understands and loves Him completely.

 

[baydoll]

Which should make you logically ask, "how can you emphatically trust the accuracy of a document when you KNOW it is replete with errors" or "what makes allows you to trust the trustworthiness of a book when even you can admit there are mistranslations in it. Should make you wonder about the infallabity of a document you KNOW is rife with errors". (we really dont expect anyone to touch this one)

Please point all these 'errors' out. Let's examine them.

 

[baydoll]

i can scientifically demonstrate it with repeatable and reproducable results, so i would say yes.

Are you showing me the 'effects' of gravity or actual gravity?

 

[baydoll]

Originally Posted by baydoll
And they are?
this is a good one

it's been covered in countless threads on this board alone however and is extremely easy to research by yourself.

http://www.genetics.org/cgi/reprint/169/2/523.pdf

Which addressed none of the following:

Where the first DNA came from,

the vast amounts of information in animal/human DNA,

how molecular machines evolved,

how the first cell lived in its hostile environment long enough to reproduce,

what the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduced,

how single-celled plants become multi-celled,

where the abundance of transitional species are,

where the human fossil record are,

why some animals, according to the fossil record, did not evolve further,

why monkeys are still around,

why creatures produced by chance do not have random thoughts,

why creatures produced by chance have moral values,

why creatures produced by chance have feelings and emotions and how did they evolve,

why there is order in all organisms compared to chaos in the world around it,

where the space for the universe came from,

where matter came from,

where the laws of the universe came from (gravity, inertia, etc.),

how matter got so perfectly organized,

where did energy come from to do all the organizing….

when, where, why, and how life came from dead matter,

when, where, why, and how life learn to reproduce itself,

what the first cell capable of sexual reproduction reproduce,


When, where, why, and how did:

Single-celled plants became multi-celled? (Where are the two and three-celled intermediates?)

Single-celled animals evolved?

Fish changed to amphibians?

Amphibians changed to reptiles?

Reptiles changed to birds? (The lungs, bones, eyes, reproductive organs, heart, method of locomotion, body covering, etc., are all very different.)

and how the intermediate forms lived?

when, where, why, how, and from what did:

Whales evolved?

Sea horses evolved?

Bats evolved?

Eyes evolved?

Ears evolved?

Hair, skin, feathers, scales, nails, claws, etc., evolved?

which evolved first (how, and how long, did it work without the others):


The digestive system, the food to be digested, the appetite, the ability to find and eat the food, the digestive juices, or the body’s resistance to its own digestive juice (stomach, intestines, etc.)?

The drive to reproduced or the ability to reproduced?

The lungs, the mucus lining to protect them, the throat, or the perfect mixture of gases to be breathed into the lungs?

DNA or RNA to carry the DNA message to cell parts?

the termite or the flagella in its intestines that actually digest the cellulose?

the plants or the insects that live on and pollinate the plants?

the bones, ligaments, tendons, blood supply, or muscles to move the bones?

the nervous system, repair system, or hormone system?

the immune system or the need for it?


Mimicry... Did the plants and animals develop mimicry by chance, by their intelligent choice, or by design?

when, where, why, and how man evolved feelings? Love, mercy, guilt, etc?

how photosynthesis evolved?

how thoughts evolved?

How flowering plants evolved, and from what?

named one clear prediction of macroevolution that has proven true?

 

[Xaquin44]

How do you explain all the millions of people throughout history on up to now who DO understands the Bible?

well, seeing how everyone understands it differently, I'd explain that it's silly to base your life off of something no one truly understands.

 

[Xaquin44]

Are you showing me the 'effects' of gravity or actual gravity?

um

they are the same. Gravity is the name given to the effect.

 

[baydoll]

Also, if really want evidence as to a lack of a god, look around. You’ll notice (realisticly) that he isn’t here.

On the contrary, my friend….I ‘look around’ and ‘notice’ evidence of Him EVERYWHERE…. His ‘fingerprints’ all OVER this vast universe. Take a good HONEST look at my last post and tell me there is no evidence of a Creator.

… For God's wrath is revealed from heaven against all godlessness and unrighteousness of people who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth, since what can be known about God is evident among them, because God has shown it to them. From the creation of the world His invisible attributes, that is, His eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly seen, being understood through what He has made. As a result, people are without excuse.

Romans 1:18-32

 

[Xaquin44]

you know .... you may be right.

I'm not sure that someone as mentally challanged as you could have 'evolved' from anything.

of course this brings to light the fact that god has created a dumb####.

-way to go god-

 

[This_person]

um

they are the same. Gravity is the name given to the effect.

No, gravity is a force, what you see is the effect of the force.

 

[baydoll]

And they will. That’s the beauty of it.

what? i mean please explain.

Gladly.


Individual Jews must come to Christ for salvation just like everybody else. As far as the nation of Israel is concern, God isn’t finished with them….they’ve been ‘set aside’ for now until the ‘fullness of the Gentiles’ comes in. Please read Romans 11. Jeremiah 33:8, Ezekiel 11:17, Romans 11:26 all predicted that in the end times Israel would be regenerated, restored, and regathered in their homeland which has already happened.

Zechariah 12:10 states that in the end times, Israel will finally recognize Jesus as their Messiah.

Jews DO NOT BELIEVE JESUS WAS GODS SON

If they did they would be Christians.

The Old Testament Fathers believed and had faith in Jesus as well as the Apostles and they were all Jews. The church in its infancy was mostly if not all Jewish.

There are many in the world today who are Jews and truly believe that Jesus is the Son of God. They’re called Messianic Jews.

 

[baydoll]

well, seeing how everyone understands it differently, I'd explain that it's silly to base your life off of something no one truly understands.

Oh? Can you provide examples of this? I can provide plenty of examples of people who understands the Bible the same way I do.

 

[baydoll]

Babydoll:
Have you ever been to the Smithsonian Museum of Natural History? They have a ring on display that is inscribed as belonging to Joab and they have authenticated it dates back to Biblical days! I thought that was awesome!

It's been many, many years ago since I've been....and I had no idea of that!

That's cool!

I may have to make a trip back one of these days to check it out! Thanks for that info.