Beware! Leftists in our schools!!!

[Doc]

Originally posted by Frank
If a majority want to do something stupid - they get to do it.

No, not always. Abortion would be one example (pop goes the can of worms) where stupidity sometimes rules. Occasionally, because some religious nutcase gets it into their head that fetuses are people too, abortion or some aspect thereof, gets banned in a state or two. An unintelligent majority gets to tyrannize the minority and prevent them from having abortions. But of course, the difficulty here arises from the difficulty in defining "life."

If, as a completely absurd example, the majority decide that all NASCAR fans must be sent to concentration camps, they'll never get their wish, assuming the Supreme Court does its job.

Quick question: Which system would rather live under: our current one, or a simplified system where everyone votes on every single issue (just like American Idol), and the will of the majority, no matter how stupid or incompatible with the Constitution, is enforced?

People are allowed to be selfish. God forbid anyone should deprive me of this right.

Agreed. I'm a big fan of selfishness. It's the cornerstone of capitalism, after all, and I'm a BIG fan of that. But 100% selfishness for 100% of the people does not a society make. In a purely selfish society, you do whatever you want. Don't like someone? Kill 'em! Want someone's car? Take it! Now who wants that?

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by Doc
Summary: Reading stupid antiwar poem as part of school play = bad. Teaching kids that compromise is possible in a democracy = good.

I'll go for that. However, you can't just let the inmates run the asylum. What if the minority votes to do a scene from Deep Throat? Should the teacher allow it, since only the ones that want to do it have to and it doesn't hurt the ones who don't?

Anyway, I've changed my mind about this teacher having sinister motives - I'm sure it was just a lapse of judgement on her part.

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by Doc


That being said, I must strongly disagree with what you've written above. Telling students that "accomodation will be made for dissenters who don't want to abide by the majority decision" is a GOOD thing. In fact, it's a founding principle of our government. See The Federalist Papers, particularly No. 51, where James Madison discusses the concept of what is now referred to as "tyranny of the majority." In a simplistic democracy, if 20 kids vote not to read a dopey bolshy poem and 10 kids vote to read it, the poem doesn't get read. In a better democracy (one that mirrors our government) the 10 kids that voted to read it get to, and the 20 kids that didn't want to don't have to.

Democracy--as it applies to the U.S.--does not mean that the majority gets to push its will onto the minority.

Doc,
I agree with your point regarding the tyranny of the majority, but I do not feel it fits into this context.

First the teacher resorted to a vote on the subject. This means that she relinquished her authority to decide if the poem were to be put into the program to a popular vote in effect making the choice on that specific matter that of the students. When the vote was not in her interest she then resumed authority and made an accommodation so that her will triumphed. This is wrong.

Because the majority of the class voted against it and she managed to insert the poem against the will of the majority she was practicing tyranny of the minority because she alone had unchecked power, just as Madison worried about in Federalist 51.

Since we are not talking about a wider ranging social issue, but instead a specific event I do not think 51 applies. Majority rule is practiced in congress on a daily basis with regard to rules. The majority party sets the rules for the legislative agenda, what legislation in considered (Speaker of the House), rules for debating bills (House rules comm.), committee make up, and so on. The minority party is then left to live with it or build a consensus to override the leadership.

I stand by my contention that by "pretending" to relinquish authority, only to resume authority when the outcome was unsatisfactory to him/her, the teacher was setting a terrible example of democracy pure or Republic. An example of this is stated in Federalist 51:

"In framing a government which is to be administered by men over men, the great difficulty lies in this: you must first enable the government to control the governed; and in the next place oblige it to control itself."

Clearly the teacher was unable to control herself, and when faced with defeat she resumed her absolute control.

What I think Pixie is referring to is the absolute rule of law. In our Republic law is not created by the people, but by the elected officials. By proxy we can say that the will of the majority is represented by those it elects. So if we have a law that says gambling is illegal, we could say that the will of the majority is to not allow gambling. Dissenters to that will have no accommodation; they must abide by the law IE: the will of the majority.

I contend that these students learned that they are not subject to the will of the majority. They will have accommodations made for them because they cannot distinguish between procedure and law. They are minors who are taught that what an adult says is paramount to law.

Lastly, because the majority voted not to include the poem, it does not mean that the poem ceases to exist, nor are they prohibited from reading it, or from reciting it on their own in an acceptable manner, outside of school, therefore they are not oppressed or subject to the “tyranny of the majority.”

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
I'm desperately trying to find the text online but the best I can find is the info from the publishing company at http://www.histage.com/default.asp?sPlayno=1008&sFSite=&sFIndex=&sDesc=family_album.

After reading the synopsis, I hereby take back my statement that "I'd rather shove rabid weasels down my trousers than watch that play."

Instead, I'd rather drive hot pokers into my eyes and poke my eardrums out. Ah yes, I suspect that would be much more pleasurable than listening to that kind of bland, hackneyed drivel. Vrai, you must have incredible willpower to sit through something like that. I'd probably have been heaving up my lunch after five minutes.

 

[vraiblonde]

Occasionally, because some religious nutcase gets it into their head that fetuses are people too, abortion or some aspect thereof, gets banned in a state or two. An unintelligent majority gets to tyrannize the minority and prevent them from having abortions. But of course, the difficulty here arises from the difficulty in defining "life."

Wow. Let me just put on my helmet and protective gear.....

Vrai, you must have incredible willpower to sit through something like that.

I've been sitting through excruciating school plays, band performances and "talent" shows for 15 years now. You get used to it.

 

[vraiblonde]

Re: HEY VRAI!!!

Originally posted by bluto
If you have to make any 'myself and others' type of comments, I wanna be one of the others!

Not sure what you mean.

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by bluto
The liberals nemesis, Ayn Rand?

Indeed. I find a lot of her writings interesting, and agree with much of the philosophy of objectivism. But if you think a gathering of liberals is a disgusting, freakish affair, let me tell you--a group of Randians is 100 times freakier. I made the mistake--ONCE--long ago of going to an Ayn Rand seminar on campus. Ah, that certainly brought out the nuts.

 

[Pete]

CRAP, now that the story has changed I wasted a perfectly good Philosophical rant. Anyone have a clue how long it took me to type that? And I had to read the Federalist papers again. I hoped I was done with that !!

 

[vraiblonde]

I don't consider your post wasted, Pete. The majority of the students did in fact not want to do the act. The teacher did take a vote, yet let the minority have their way. Why did she take a vote if the majority had already expressed dissent and she was going to let the minority do what they wanted anyway?

 

[vraiblonde]

And one more thing:

When I say "I'm sure it was just a misunderstanding..." that's VraiCode for "You are an idiot but I'm willing to react calmly in order to get what I want".

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by dpete2q
Doc,
I agree with your point regarding the tyranny of the majority, but I do not feel it fits into this context.

You raise many interesting points. I guess I'd like to have been there when the vote was taken and heard what was said. (OK, I lie--I hate kids, and sitting around watching a middle school class do its thing is not something I would "like," but you know what I mean.) Did those 10 students argue passionately to read their poem, or did the teacher just say "Well why don't you 10 read it" after seeing a disinterested show of hands? If those 10 students really, really, really wanted to read this piece, then it seems the action was done more as a compromise. I still don't see it as tyranny of the minority since the other 20 weren't forced to read it.

In the end, I find myself more and more offended in an aesthetic sense (children performing a very, very banal play and causing severe annoyance to the audience members who have to sit through that schlock) by the crappy nature of the material, than the political nature of the final skit.

 

[Doc]

Originally posted by dpete2q
CRAP, now that the story has changed I wasted a perfectly good Philosophical rant. Anyone have a clue how long it took me to type that? And I had to read the Federalist papers again. I hoped I was done with that !!

Your time is never wasted reading them! I'm one of those sick ####s that actually enjoys going back and reading them again from time to time. You can learn a lot from them!

 

[Frank]

Originally posted by Doc
But 100% selfishness for 100% of the people does not a society make. In a purely selfish society, you do whatever you want. Don't like someone? Kill 'em! Want someone's car? Take it! Now who wants that?

If that's what is wanted - fine. I think society erodes away, but that is how it works. The alternative is for some power to enforce what IT thinks is right on others. How would you feel if something akin to a Christian form of the Taliban were in control here, enforcing its will of what it thinks is right?

BTW - we actually do NOT live in a democracy, but that usually gets overlooked. We live in a republic, or rather, a democratic republic. We have representative government (heck, we have representative "voting" as well, for those who keep talking about the last election). Voters choose someone to speak for them, preferably, someone who DOES know the issues.

I CAN say - an extremely unpopular law can't remain in effect for long - what the people say as a majority does matter. If enoguh people change their view about abortion - or slavery - or racism - the laws change. We do NOT have some wise head enforcing his divine will over us, thank goodness.

 

[ConcrndCitizen2]

Political take-over of a school "program" is not all you have to worry about. Read this post below, then ask yourself : "What's all the dirty, little secrets going on behind the curtain in my own county?" ( Watch the boards in the morning for one of them. )

This post below is an example of what is coming to light in California where more children die in D.S.S./foster care from abuse than in their own homes from the same. It seems that political "programming" does more in the schools than what the normal parents have been told... These Californian "at risk" children are not the only ones "the leftists" are after. Any child in any state deemed to need "medication" for "disabilites" also falls under the category detailed below. What's this got to do with children in a school "program"? Keep reading.

This means that CPS/D.S.S. can waltz into ANY PUBLIC SCHOOL IN ANY STATE and remove them at will. It's enough to make a parent immediately run out and transfer their children from public school to private! Don't think twice. Do it now while you still have the chance to get the kids away from "the leftists"! They don't JUST want your child's mind. If they can't get it, they will come for the BODY as well..

Read it and weep. This was posted on a messageboard fighting for children and family rights all over the country, because this is legal right here in your own state too:

"Please help California keep kids from being taken from their parents!

Your faxes, phone calls, and emails are needed NOW to support AB 1424 by California Assembly Member Dennis Mountjoy. This bill would make it illegal to take a child from the parents and put the child into foster care if the only charge is medical neglect because the parents refuse psychiatric drugs or treatment for the child. Currently, the parents can be charged with "medical neglect," and are threatened with being investigated by Child Protective Services and losing their child based on the school's accusation. This is enough to scare many parents into putting their children on dangerous psychiatric drugs. This situation was profiled recently on the Montel Williams Show, "A Mom's Right
to Choose." Data about the show may still be on his website, as it was in April.

Please write a letter in your own words and FAX it or email it to the members of the Assembly Health Committee right away! The bill is going to be voted up or down on Tuesday, April 29th. If you have group letterhead, put it on that. If you live in the district of any of the members listed below, also CALL their Sacramento office and voice your support.

Suggested topics are below. Please state clearly that you want a YES vote on AB 1424 in your letter. If you know of anyone personally who has been threatened with charges of neglect in order to coerce them to drug their child, you should write about that. I am PARTICULARLY INTERESTED to hear personally from anyone in California who has actually had their child removed due to refusing psychiatric treatment for the child.

1) I saw the Montel Williams show, and I am totally outraged that parents are being forced to give their children dangerous and potentially deadly psychiatric drugs or have their children ripped from them.
2) I am shocked that parents are being charged with medical neglect for refusing to give their children brain-damaging psychiatric drugs. This is ridiculous!
3) California's foster care system is not a paradise, and children should not be sent into the system based on a parent's choice not to put their child on dangerous drugs.
4) Psychiatric diagnoses are subjective and have no physical tests that can be done to prove that a child has any psychiatric "disorder." To threaten to take a child away from a parent, or actually do so, based on a psychiatric diagnosis violates parents rights and threatens the health of the children so treated.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Actually, the whole truth of this matter is that CPS/D.S.S. doesn't even need the "excuse" of "medical negligence" to take your child as these next statistics will point out to you. In 1997 alone 48,000 children were taken from Maryland homes, that's 131 children PER DAY, ( a bit unbelievable, isn't it, but these statistics can be found easily on line from the DHR ), yet only approximately 14,000 were "found to be anywhere near abusive". This means, on average, 24,000 families were terrorized by Maryland CPS in 1 year. Again, that amount of child abuse in Maryland is no where near even being plausable... One hundred and thirty-one children PER DAY....Stop and think about that. I'm not buying it, are you?

Only 14,000 out of 48,000 cases being anywhere near "abusive" = THIRTY-TWO-THOUSAND children taken UN-NECESSARILY and "floated" within the foster-care system, ( like the Bank keeps your check$ and floats them for 10 days so they can pocket the intere$t during that period!! ), because this is the only way D.S.S. can stay in business and pay all of those "social workers" who, without having Medical Licenses, are now the LEGALLY endowed authorities who are deciding what is "best" for your child's INTELLECTUAL, emotional, AND physical welfare ! It's also reported they get bonu$e$ for thi$ "work". I've heard it also stated elsewhere that each caseworker and/or supervisor can also get up to a $600.00 bonu$ for adopting out YOUR child to someone else, ( who "would have more sense to medicate it correctly", etc. ).

This is simple math: more children in the system = more FEDERAL funding for the state to pay everyone involved in this horror story. This is also 1 ) TAX Fraud commited against the United States and Maryland Tax-Payer forced to pay for children who don't even need to be in the system and 2 ) Misappropriation of funds for the welfare of children who are perfectly fine in their own homes!

Law enforcement agents will be of no use to you if your child is taken, for they have already been ordered to not investigate anything that goes on in ANY D.S.S. licensed homes. The State doesn't investigate and slap it's own hand. Why $hould it? If no one know$ about all of thi$, then everyone'$ $alarie$ $tay $ecure...Get The Picture$?

Wake up, Maryland. You've already allowed this situation to get out of control. What are YOU going to do to stop it before a "political program" forced upon kids in a school auditorium is the least of your gripes?

 

[smcdem]

Who is this? My god how do you know all that?

 

[vraiblonde]

Another story:

A guy my ex used to work with had something similar happen to his family. His son got in a fight at school and a teacher noticed his bruises and disheveled appearance. So she's like "What happened?" And the kid, because he didn't want to get suspended for fighting at school, told her that his Dad beat him up. Now it so happens the Dad was in the Army. So the Principal calls the folks on base and either called Social Services or the base people did. But anyway, the kid was removed from the home and placed in foster care THAT DAY!

Now the kid realizes he messed up so he's trying to tell them that he lied so he wouldn't get in trouble, that his Dad doesn't really beat him up. They wouldn't listen, said that the Dad had coerced him. So the kid went to foster care, the Dad was under investigation and in a serious amount of trouble from the Army folks. It was really a mess.

Eventually it got straightened out, the kid came back home and the charges were dropped against the Dad. But it took like three weeks and did a lot of damage to their family.

Hey Mountain Mama - do you remember this when we were at Ritchie? Ask Mountain Daddy if he does - it was a guy that worked with him and Dave.

 

[vraiblonde]

Oh shoot! Here's another one!

When my nephew was a baby, he was having one of those days when they just bawl their heads off and there's nothing you can do to console them. My sis was home alone and getting frustrated, so she put him in his crib, grabbed an ice tea and a smoke and went out to sit on the patio to cool off. She'd go in to check on him and try to console him, then put him back in the crib and go back out on the patio. Well, her neighbor heard allt his crying, called the cops and said she was abusing/neglecting her baby!

So the cops come and they make her remove the baby's clothing and diaper so they can check for signs of abuse. Meg was 20 at the time and scared to death. Obviously they didn't find any marks or anything but they sent a social worker over to her house once a week to check on the baby. It took 6 months for the case to be closed.

 

[SmallTown]

What is really sad about these stories is that they wouldn't be over-reacting if there hadn't been similar real problems they had encountered over the years.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by SmallTown
What is really sad about these stories is that they wouldn't be over-reacting if there hadn't been similar real problems they had encountered over the years.

See, and that's what's so frustrating about it. You hear about all these kids that "fall through the cracks", and I'm curious how that happens.

 

[ConcrndCitizen2]

I find it most disturbing that you have no links and only vaque references. Please do your research and have your references readily available.

( Also see : http://forums.somd.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=9872 )

I didn't know I had to do your homework for you. You'll have to learn to trust me. If I can't back something up, I won't say it. You'll have to learn to be more specific in your questions, though. Exactly which of my "vague references" were you vaguely asking for a reference? How about I give them all to you and you can sort them out?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Letter regarding Ca. Bill AB 1424 :

Dennis Mountjoy,( Mentioned in the above letter ), fax 916-319-2159
http://ms101.mysearch.com/jsp/GGmain.jsp?searchfor=AB+1424++++Dennis+Mountjoy

Several Contacts:

Dario Frommer, Glendale
phone 916-319-2043; fax 916-319-2143
Assemblymember.Frommer@assembly.ca.gov

Ed Chavez, La Puente
phone 916-319-2057; fax 916-319-2157
Assemblymember.Chavez@assembly.ca.gov

Judy Chu, Monterey Park
916-319-2049; fax 916-319-2149
Assemblymember.Chu@assembly.ca.gov

AB 1424
http://oceanpark.com/notes/ab1424.html

SUMMARY
http://www.psychlaws.org/GeneralResources/Fact14.htm#PROVISIONS

AB 1424 is a new tool that ensures medical and psychiatric history will be considered in the legal process. But it is not a panacea.

To subject Californians with severe mental illness to laws not based on scientific fact is preposterous. Passage of AB 1424 is but the first step needed to right this wrong.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Maryland Statistics Re: 1997 Social Service Activities
http://www.acf.dhhs.gov/programs/cb/publications/cwo98/Sec5/states_MD.html

The Result Of "Floating Children" In Other States :
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/news/editorial/5692576.htm
http://www.miami.com/mld/miamiherald/5711425.htm

( I'm still looking for the California Statistics. You'll have to trust my photographic memory as demonstrated by the Maryland Statistics. )
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

"Law enforcement agents are ordered to not investigate anything that goes on in ANY D.S.S. licensed homes", is a quote straight from one of the Directors in Governor Ehrlich's Offices. His and Glendening's aid, a Mr. Dixon, also told me that "neither Governor has any control whatsoever over any of the agencies beneathe him." They may want to check this out with the Calvert County Commissioners, though, because they insist that act of them washing their hands of this mess is all "Hogwash"..
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
CPS Abuse Resource Site:
http://www.fightcps.com/
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Who is this? My god how do you know all that?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
I'm Calvert County Social Service's Worst Nightmare, that's who I am.

And I know all of this because Senator Roy Dyson's 22 year old, autistic cousins, Robert and Michael Dyson, who are VIRGINIA RESIDENTS, were forced, by totally fraudulent means, into the Maryland Social Services System against their will in 2000 at the legal age of 19, and they are still being kidnapped and abused by their caregiver in Lusby, Maryland. This crime is being allowed and aided by Calvert County Social Service Supervisors.

Robert and Michael's VA. residency/citizenship can be proven by their VA. D.M.V. ID's making them totally ineligible for the services the Maryland tax-payers were unwittingly forced to pay for 2 yrs. ! See the post in the News Category posted 2-3 days ago : " Md. Abduction And Abuse of 22, Year Old, Autistic Virginia Residents".

In other words if Roy Dyson, ( and the rest of the Maryland Government ), allows this to happen to Roy's own flesh and blood, ( His office will only comment that "this is a civil matter" ), while Doreen McKenzie, supervisor of C.C.S.S. is caught lying about the whole thing to The State's Attorney's Office, The Attorney General's Office, and The Governor's Individual's With Disabilities Office , yet not one thing is done by any of these people to FIRE HER and free Robert and Michael, then tell me what chance in hell you constituents have if you need help against C.C.D.S.S. or any other representation?
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Is that clear and detailed enough for you now, cariblue?

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I know all of this is true because, for the past almost 3 years, everyone in this entire state has refused to admit this abduction BY THE STATE even when the State police were called to force their caregiver to allow Robert and Michael to use the phone. They appearantly thought that wasn't kidnapping for her to refuse to let 19 year old, legally free ADULTS to use the phone to call for help .....

Since then this trauma has caused them to regress and, therefore, they have withdrawn into aggression causing physical, mental, and emotional alienation from the family, whom, they are being told, has "left them there, doesn't want them, doesn't love them, and doesn't want to see or speak with them anymore"! However, in reality, their family isn't being allowed!! The truth is that they love them so much they worked diligently for 19 years to free them from autistism's worst behaviorisms, ( including Echolalia, which can't be done if there WAS abuse, and yet they succeeded !! ) . However, these are the very behaviorisms C.C.S.S. wants fostered in them ! If they keep them kidnapped, regressed, and alienated, then Robert and Michael can't leave and sue the pants off of them, can they?

So, to that end, C.C.S.S. keeps up the front that :
1) Robert and Michael are "Maryland residents and were so when they came into their system",
2) "They were severely lacking Life-Skills", ( which is news to all their friends, relatives, and boss in Va. ),and
3) "They are free to go", yet still phone calls are denied, visit's are denied, and, if scheduled, are demanded to be supervised, and then they are cancelled....without due process.

Since Doreen was caught lying to the above mentioned authorities they have been allowed to speak once with their sister; the first time since last July....... Details of their July visit are found in the post in the News Category from 2-3 days ago called : "Md. Abduction Of 22 Yr. Old, Autistic, Virginia Residents".

Patuxent High School also aided and abetted in this abduction, by first denying their mother's parental right to govern their education for their first year there, ( because it was fraudulently told the twins were "wards of the state", as reported by teachers there ), then, after re-instating their mother's rights, Patuxent High refused to let her speak with them, ( also without due process ), and then denied her demand for therapy to which every person with an IEP is eligible paid for by the state.

This therapy was not only denied, but their mother was told it didn't even exist, all to keep them from being saved from falling into autistic regression and aggression, which, along with the constant abuse, caused their alienation from their family. All of this was done to keep from having an outside, private, and valid assessment of what THE STATE has really done to them!!!

Had they had an outside psychologist explaining to them the crime of their civil rights being denied and therefore attempting to free them, they may have demanded to leave a little louder. ( They have also been fraudulently told they aren't allowed to leave. See the account of when they tried to leave in the post in the News category ). However, whenever they were known to get upset and verbally demand their rights from their caregiver rebelling against their kidnapping, the caregiver would threaten them with sedation that was never needed before in their lives!

Will the Maryland State Police rescue them from this abuse? Not one of them will.. Also The Child Abuse Det. from the Lusby sheriff's office, Det. McDowell reported that :" If I hear of child abuse in a state run home , all I do is call Doreen McKenzie, and if she says everything is ok, then I don't even investigate. And if I hear of abuse going on, it's ok with me, as long as the child is getting medical attention for it, because I have more important things to do like catch murderers and rapists. "

I have to tell you, you people are sitting ducks. I'd get out of Dodge as fast as I could, if I was you, however, there's no where to go. This kidnapping is par for the New United States Course.. Check the links on CPS Abuse.. It's everywhere.. THAT'S the "dirty, little secret" none of your elected officials want you to know.

Call them up and ask them why Doreen McKenzie is lying to the State's Attorney's Office, The Attorney General's Office, The Gov's Individual's With Disabilities Office, and every other applicable program office in the state about Robert and Michael's original Virginia residency, their level of skills, non-existant family visitations to cover up the truth and to get tax-payer funded services for people who 1) were ineligbile for it, 2) don't need it because they have 2 homes in which they demanded to live when they were forced into this, and 3) why are they not being rescued from this abduction?

I'm going to guess it's because Maryland Tax-payers like paying for residents from other states to be kidnapped and floated through the system. NO? Then you need to make some phone calls yourself.. I bet you get no results either. Then maybe you'll believe me about all of the leftists in the system.