But the Bible said it isn't true

[Bustem' Down]

Fine. Here's what we know.

The universe is, to a high degree of accuracy, over 12 billion years old. We know this thanks in large part to two men whose names you'll probably recognize: Einstein and Hubble and one you won't: Planck. The edge of the observable universe is 15 billion light years away. Given the expansion rate of the universe and our understanding that light is a constant and has been for all known time, this sets a clear limit on the age of the universe, and that limit is not 10,000 years. The size, shape, and forces at work in the universe all point to a very simple fact: the universe is very, very old.

Thanks to our understanding of light and redshift, we can look back and see the early age of the universe and measure the distances and times involved. Thanks to our understanding of entropy, we can measure the limited lingering energy of the early universe. Thanks to our understanding of radiometric decay, we can investigate meteors and rocks and discover facts about their age and birth. We can look into the hearts of distant stars and see what they're made of. We can study our own star and see that it is billions of years old. Each step forward we cast off the old, from Newton to Galileo to Einstein.

There is more, but each science is based on more science, which is based on more science. Theories and their laws and their conclusions and so forth, all based on what we know and what we'd like to know. The conclusion comes down to two things. Either the universe and the earth are vastly ancient, or God has created a counterfeit universe and dropped us into it.

It doesn't matter, no one will listen to you.

 

[tirdun]

It doesn't matter, no one will listen to you.

Probably not. I got red karma trying to make fun of my name... or specifically my internet pseudonym , I got red karma suggesting I did drugs in college and red karma with nothing but rolling eyes. Its a sad and cowardly means of argument, congratulations to those three for your truly amazing powers of debate

Young earth creationism is a conspiracy theory, pure and simple. Its bigger than Apollo hoaxers, bigger than 9/11, JFK, bigger than them all. It claims a universal, world wide and ongoing conspiracy by scientists in geology, physics, chemistry, biology, history, anthropology and paleontology to hide a fact of reality that should be plain to anyone studying a physical science. The Chinese chemist and the Russian geologist and the American physicist are all meeting in some secret cabal headquarters, hiding the ever increasing evidence of a 10,000 year old world and manufacturing data on light years and distant planets and ancient fossils.

 

[Tonio]

Young earth creationism is a conspiracy theory, pure and simple. Its bigger than Apollo hoaxers, bigger than 9/11, JFK, bigger than them all. It claims a universal, world wide and ongoing conspiracy by scientists in geology, physics, chemistry, biology, history, anthropology and paleontology to hide a fact of reality that should be plain to anyone studying a physical science. The Chinese chemist and the Russian geologist and the American physicist are all meeting in some secret cabal headquarters, hiding the ever increasing evidence of a 10,000 year old world and manufacturing data on light years and distant planets and ancient fossils.

It didn't occur to me that young earth creationism is often promoted like a conspiracy theory. Good comparison.

I believe that all religions' creation stories aren't really important. The stories have some value as inspiration or metaphor or example. But if the religions had no stories about creation, their messages would be the same. We don't know the motives of the people who originally wrote those stories, and I see that as a strong justification for not reading the stories literally.

 

[Homer J]

We don't know the motives of the people who originally wrote those stories, and I see that as a strong justification for not reading the stories literally.

But we do know their motives. It's called Divine Inspiration.

 

[Tonio]

But we do know their motives. It's called Divine Inspiration.

As I see it, we only have the claim that they were divinely inspired. I'm deeply suspicious of all claims like that, no matter what the religion.

 

[greyhound]

Has anyone heard about Spiritism. My friend studies this. It's very interesting and uses a lot of science.

 

[slotted]

It certainly didn't say he was a big fat ape :shrug:

Strawman.
Evolution doesn't state that we came from an ape. It states that we evolved from a common species.

 

[greyhound]

Strawman.
Evolution doesn't state that we came from an ape. It states that we evolved from a common species.

Thank You slotted....I've been trying to tell people this but they don't have a real understanding of evolution.

 

[Tonio]

Tell us how you really feel about this Tonio! If you don't get it right, I'm gonna send the Jehovah Witness people to your house and tell them not to leave until you are SAVED!

If any of them come to my door, I'll introduce them to Rufus, my crocodile that Steve Irwin left me in his will. Rufus LOVES Jehovah's Witnesses, especially with a ginger lime and sesame sauce.

 

[bdh802]

As I see it, we only have the claim that they were divinely inspired. I'm deeply suspicious of all claims like that, no matter what the religion.

Food for thought? Religion is a big deal to many people all over the world. Right here in the U.S., there are new churches being built all the time. I go to one, regretably not as often as I should but it's full of people. It's a BIG church with 4 masses each weekend and they are all full. Not full of people who are just too stupid to know any better. There are many doctors, P.A.s, Engineers, etc who drive their BMWs to mass every Sunday from their McMansion in the country.

Just pay attention to how many churches are out there. Seriously! You have the new "Church of what's happenin' now" in the shopping center next to the 7-11 store. You have the AME church down the street that has all the cars parked out on the street because the lot's full. You have the Catholic churches , baptists, methodists, lutherans, Jews, Seventh Day, etc. The list goes on and on. Why do so many people around the world BELIEVE, yet it all just seems suspicious to you. I really don't care if you believe or not, nor will I try to save you or anything like that but you have to respect the millions of people for their beliefs.

Religion is not some new fad or something created by the media (well maybe the Scientology thing would fit into these categories). It's been around for a long time and will be around for a long time. Heck, you even see GOD on the money you spend everyday.

I had a co-worker tell me one time that religion is for the weak-minded stupid people. I wanted so badly to gather a few friends of mine (The Physician's assistant, the accountant, the chemical engineer, the computer programmer and this other guy that seems to know it all but I don't really know what he does and have my co-worker repeat this statement to them personally.

My point is...You have the right to believe what you want but that doesn't neccesarily make you smarter.

 

[Tonio]

Why do so many people around the world BELIEVE, yet it all just seems suspicious to you. I really don't care if you believe or not, nor will I try to save you or anything like that but you have to respect the millions of people for their beliefs...

I had a co-worker tell me one time that religion is for the weak-minded stupid people.... My point is...You have the right to believe what you want but that doesn't neccesarily make you smarter.

You misunderstand me. I deeply respect other people's belief. I would never claim something as arrogant as what your co-worker claimed, and I would never claim that my beliefs make me smarter than other people.

I'm not deeply suspicious of religion. I'm suspicious of claims that any belief system is "divinely inspired," making an exclusive claim to God or exclusive knowledge of what God wants. Not only do I find that arrogant, I see it as an an attempt to define other people as evil or unholy. Specificially, I resent it when any believer claims to know what God wants for me. Wrong. The believer only knows what God wants for the believer, not for anyone else.