Bwuhahahahha, I got a photo speeding ticket!!!!!

[GWguy]

Kind of belongs here and kind of doesn't.

I did receive a parking ticket several years ago. It wasn't my car and it took hours of me on the phone to clear up the fact I did not have a red Dodge Caravan parked in front of the Baltimore Stadium.

Currently, I have a vehicle with a title the MVA typed out incorrectly.

They typed a 5 as an S.

Yay me!

No charge, apparently, but I do have to go in person to have this corrected before I can sell before mentioned vehicle.

I would like to charge them for my pain and anguish.

I had this happen too. It was the difference between a zero 0 and an oh O, but on the reg they were identical. It took months to finally figure it out, and only because I looked over the shoulder of the MVA operator console and saw their zero had a slash thru it on the screen which didn't show anywhere else. Damn IBM fonts..... They were threatening revocation of our registrations, our licenses and fining us huge amounts for their error.

 

[Dakota]

No pain or frustration, I was lauging as I opened the envelope, knowing damn well I have not been closer to Bmore that BWI in at least two years. Just talked to the nice lady, who evidently has access to higher resolution images than the website. She saw that maybe the tag had an H instead of an M. Pulled a search on that variant, sure enough it is a red pickup that has multiple offenses, evidently the $40 fines have not slowed him down

My tag number is now flagged that any Bmore photo cites get double checked for make and model, and this one should clear after investigation, sometime in Jan.

Did the supervisor help you? She is so wonderful and helpful. She told me she's retiring in 2012 - so I'm really sad to see her go. Glad you got it straight!! MVA issues can become nightmares that never end if you don't get the right person to help you.

 

[aps45819]

There needs to be a penalty of some sort to the company and/or agency so show this is a 'not for profit' venture. JMO

red light cameras are a FOR PROFIT venture. Why would you think they are not?

 

[glhs837]

Did the supervisor help you? She is so wonderful and helpful. She told me she's retiring in 2012 - so I'm really sad to see her go. Glad you got it straight!! MVA issues can become nightmares that never end if you don't get the right person to help you.

Not an MVA person at all, an employee of the vendor, I suspect. This sort of work cost too much if done by govt employees.

Is this just your next cause ? I don't get it... If you don't speed you won't have to pay the fine.. Simply HUMAN errors as glhs had can be fixed. It has happen to me I have got 4 of these things easy. I was guilty so I paid. Dude why don't you put all this energy into helping the homeless or veterans. You are obviously motivated. I still think after you revealed that information that was in trusted to you that you should be no longer allowed to hold you position as you are using it for your own gain.

Depends on the vendor and system employed, I think. At least 3-4 folks have shown in court that the Optotraffic system has issues, and had cases dismissed, not because of human error (although the 2,000 plus citations signed as reviewed by a dead Baltimore police officer raises questions about that aspect) but becuase the system improperly measured the vehicles speed.

What information do you think Roy put out that was not cleared for public release? What happened in a meeting of a county committee made up of volunteers? And what personal gain do you see him getting from these discussions?

 

[Vince]

And here's the rub. It happened Thanksgiving Day, a day when I never went farther north than the California Wal-Mart. And the pictured vehicle is a type I have never owned. But the tag number matches one I was issued about 20 days before, quite clearly a match. But it's in my driveway on a 90 bright yellow Geo Strom, not a 1990s GM Stepside pickup with a cap.

So, I am renewing my DL later today in Loveville, and plan to ask WTF and can I have new tags. Only appeal process listed on the citation is a hearing, I assume in Baltimore

Happened to me twice. First time they matched my truck (1991 Red Ford Ranger) with a full size white F150. Had to email photos of plates and truck. The second one is still not resolved. Had to mail photos of my 2009 toyota to DC. They matched this one with some Pipefitters utility truck. Still don't have an answer and they don't give a phone number. All you would have to do is read the registration to know you don't have the right vehicle.

 

[Pride4369]

Not an MVA person at all, an employee of the vendor, I suspect. This sort of work cost too much if done by govt employees.




Depends on the vendor and system employed, I think. At least 3-4 folks have shown in court that the Optotraffic system has issues, and had cases dismissed, not because of human error (although the 2,000 plus citations signed as reviewed by a dead Baltimore police officer raises questions about that aspect) but becuase the system improperly measured the vehicles speed.

What information do you think Roy put out that was not cleared for public release? What happened in a meeting of a county committee made up of volunteers? And what personal gain do you see him getting from these discussions?

Well the system in baltimore is not OptoTraffic but in fact ACS and that is humans causing the errors in that!! Quite frankly absurd if the officer was deceased, but still that is old press.

Personal Gain is equivalent to his next cause... ie.. what will get my voice heard next is what i feel as far as the info released. Look there is a system in place for a reason. He even said himself he might be in hot water for talking about it. I think if you want to know sign up and attend or position your self to be a part of that group. If not let the powers that be release the information. Lets not pose as one thing and portray another. I think if hes going to be a part of something at least be real about his intentions. IF not stick it and shut up. Nobody likes being backstabbed.

 

[Pride4369]

Well the system in baltimore is not OptoTraffic but in fact ACS and that is humans causing the errors in that!! Quite frankly absurd if the officer was deceased, but still that is old press.

Personal Gain is equivalent to his next cause... ie.. what will get my voice heard next is what i feel as far as the info released. Look there is a system in place for a reason. He even said himself he might be in hot water for talking about it. I think if you want to know sign up and attend or position your self to be a part of that group. If not let the powers that be release the information. Lets not pose as one thing and portray another. I think if hes going to be a part of something at least be real about his intentions. IF not stick it and shut up. Nobody likes being backstabbed.

also technicalities because a judge did not understand the testimony does not mean the system was wrong. I challenge you to go sit in court for 8 hours and listen to these defenses instead of taking the word of another.

 

[glhs837]

Optos issue is with accuracy, not review, I mentioned the Baltimore case because you blew off the review process. And it's not too old...

I-Team: Dead Officer Signed Red Light Citations - Baltimore, Maryland News Story - WBAL Baltimore

POSTED: 1:30 pm EST February 10, 2011

If the judge didnt understand, he should have experts to explain either GPS, or simple TSD calculations. Because those are what caused the dismissals. If the SBBMD guy faked the photos, maybe I'll but technicalties, but the math hangs together based on the timestamps and loking at the photos. Point out any errors, I will be glad to revisit them.

 

[Pride4369]

Optos issue is with accuracy, not review, I mentioned the Baltimore case because you blew off the review process. And it's not too old...

I-Team: Dead Officer Signed Red Light Citations - Baltimore, Maryland News Story - WBAL Baltimore



If the judge didnt understand, he should have experts to explain either GPS, or simple TSD calculations. Because those are what caused the dismissals. If the SBBMD guy faked the photos, maybe I'll but technicalties, but the math hangs together based on the timestamps and loking at the photos. Point out any errors, I will be glad to revisit them.

The error is this.... The photos are not used to determine speed. You CAN NOT use two separate photos to determine speed. I would never use two RANDOM photos to determine speed. Its like taking two photos with your phone they will not take at the same time. So you can not determine speed by it. Mr. Foreman from that webpage is wrong....I have done the math 1,000,000 times (being sarcastic)...The dude is deluded... Call your local police department they will tell you they would not use RANDOM photos taken to reconstruct a scene of a fatal accident to determine speed. blah blah blah

 

[Mabus]

The error is this.... The photos are not used to determine speed. You CAN NOT use two separate photos to determine speed. I would never use two RANDOM photos to determine speed. Its like taking two photos with your phone they will not take at the same time. So you can not determine speed by it. Mr. Foreman from that webpage is wrong....I have done the math 1,000,000 times (being sarcastic)...The dude is deluded... Call your local police department they will tell you they would not use RANDOM photos taken to reconstruct a scene of a fatal accident to determine speed. blah blah blah

So you're saying that photos of a moving vehicle, supposedly accurate to within 1/100 of a second, can't determine speed by using distance traveled and the time stamps of two photos? Idiot.

 

[glhs837]

But these photos are not random, they are timestamped and inteneded to do just that, provide a backup to those tall mast mounted lasers. Why dont police use laser from a moving car? Because relative movement screws up the reading. How solid are those masts? And how do you explain Optos own materials saying just that? Unless you think he faked that document? And why did Opto change the readout of the timestamp?

 

[Pride4369]

But these photos are not random, they are timestamped and inteneded to do just that, provide a backup to those tall mast mounted lasers. Why dont police use laser from a moving car? Because relative movement screws up the reading. How solid are those masts? And how do you explain Optos own materials saying just that? Unless you think he faked that document? And why did Opto change the readout of the timestamp?

Regardless of how much we simple people get on here and throw numbers around. Other peoples Ideas and paperwork it still will not change the simple fact that they are here and they are here to stay. It is a part of life just like anything else that comes with change there is the unknown and the upset. Then it fades. Regardless of where it is in the state they are here and I don't see them going anywhere anytime soon.

 

[vince77]

speed cameras are a great source of revenue that financially penalize people who choose to exceed the speed limit..... and they also slow drivers down....a win, win situation to all drivers and citizens of the county...


BTW, I got a $100 fine for a speed camera violation in DC on 295 for going 61 in a 45 mph zone a few years ago. I paid it, it was my vehicle, I was speeding, I was wrong, just like 99+% of those getting those nice letters in the mail.....

guess what I do on 295 now.....go the speed limit...

 

[glhs837]

Pride, you use that dead horse image, but I notice you didnt answer the questions I asked. Your talk of inital unhapiness followed by acceptance is nice and all, but I will note that almost every time citizens have been allowed to vote about automated enforcement, it loses.

So, to repeat, what was wrong with the math? And do you believe that the man is making stuff up?

And Vince, what about folks who were not speeding but get a ticket anyway? Should they just pay up? Or should they have a valid method of challenging the system? Like having a fair hearing in court, in a timely manner?

Or should they have to wait a year because the company who makes a profit from this gets to schedule the hearings? And should they face a judge who says up front the system itself is flawless and you are automatically guilty. There's even audio of that. A PG county judge saying that very thing.

 

[vince77]

Pride, you use that dead horse image, but I notice you didnt answer the questions I asked. Your talk of inital unhapiness followed by acceptance is nice and all, but I will note that almost every time citizens have been allowed to vote about automated enforcement, it loses.

So, to repeat, what was wrong with the math? And do you believe that the man is making stuff up?

And Vince, what about folks who were not speeding but get a ticket anyway? Should they just pay up? Or should they have a valid method of challenging the system? Like having a fair hearing in court, in a timely manner?

Or should they have to wait a year because the company who makes a profit from this gets to schedule the hearings? And should they face a judge who says up front the system itself is flawless and you are automatically guilty. There's even audio of that. A PG county judge saying that very thing.

they do have a procedure in place to challenge speed camera tickets..state law requires that the "speed monitoring system operator" maintain a "daily log" proving that the system has been properly calibrated. If that wasn't done or if your tag was misread, challenge it......I think you'll find thats a very small percentage....

One judge does not indict the whole system. The Institute of Highway Safety found that speed cameras "can substantially reduce speeding on a wide range of roadway types. Lower speeds lead to less accidents and injuries.....they are here to stay, people need to slow down....

 

[glhs837]

That one judge doesn't condemn the whole system, true. And there is a challenge system in place. But in some places, the vendor sets the dates for the hearings, and make sure it takes a while, and during that time, the government threatens you with fines and other MVA actions, even though you have requested a hearing.

Maryland Speed Cameras: Forest Heights Fails to Provide Court Hearings, Threatens Drivers

EDITORIAL: O'Malley's blackmail cameras - Washington Times

As for the daily logs, look at these stories....

Maryland Speed Cameras: Montgomery County Safe Speed Also Missing Camera Logs

Short form, having to actually do these checks make the system less proftitable, and therefore they are not done.

Maryland Speed Cameras: Gaithersburg Skips Speed Camera Checks, Scoffs at Law

Maryland Speed Cameras: Montgomery County Safe Speed Also Missing Camera Logs

And in court, the most likely result is that the judge (same ones who Pride says cannot understand the tech involved) will side with the "Since its' still working, it can be considered to have passed self test", but of course, that doesnt answer the log question.

See, wherever you dig in, you find shady activity, meant to preserve the profit making ability of the systems. Like the sham that the police departments in question actually are the operators, when in fact they do nothing but review the images (see deceased Baltimore officer) and collect the money.

But since the law says the operator cannot be paid on a per ticket basis, the local goverments say the police operate it and bypass that other supposed protection built into the law. I do not think they are here to stay, they will stay just until the citizenry gets pissed off, and then they will get voted out.

 

[vince77]

so you would feel more comfortable with the police controlling the cameras by themselves?.......

then you would be ok with these cameras?

 

[glhs837]

Yep, take that ol profit motive out of the picture, make the program revenue neutral, with real calibration controls, like police radar and LIDAR units, and I would be fine with it. I have said that right along.

 

[glhs837]

See how easy that was? I will add you to the good side of speed cameras now ole buddy ole pal.

Not so fast:} I, who gets what I think is the latest mail delivery in the county, got my mail an hour or so ago. What was there? Why a piece of mail from City Of Baltimore, Parking Fine Section, Bureau Of Revenue Collections.

WARNING NOTICE

Your tag will be flagged at the MVA if not paid by the second date indicated. If flagged, an additional $25 dollar fee will be imposed

So, evidently, it's not cleared, and were I to pay it, theres a question of if I could actually get it cleared before the $25 kicks in, since the date listed is the 22nd of this month, even though this notice is dated the 8th. Thats 14 days from date of notice to me getting it. If it takes that same amount of time to get it credited, assuming I mailed it out tomorrow, I'm in it for an additional $25 bucks.

Of course, I am innocent, so I aint paying jack, but this shows why this sort of thing is a bad idea.

 

[royhobie]

And this is one of the reasons I oppose these things. You are guilty until proven innocent. It is up to you to spend your time and money to prove your innocence and you will not get reimbursed for it. People always think automation is good until something like this happens to them, and then after they spend numerous hours, time off work, money on legal services, etc, they change their support for automation....

Good luck - I feel your pain and frustration!

I could not agree with you more. Whether it is a red light or a speed camera. With these things you are guilty first. What ever happen to innocent until proven guility? Have our Justices forgot about the law in order to collect more money from us? This has become another Maryland tax. What a shame. I hope at some point our citizens will stand up and say no more taxes instead of being lead like sheep. What a shame that people don't stand up for their rights. They just continue to take the whipping in more taxes. Whether its a red light camera or a speed camera, just another tax. What I enjoyed hearing the other day at a meeting, was a St. Mary's County Commissioner thinking they will get a piece of the pie. Nope. The way I read the legislation, it seems to indicate all of the money goes to the Sheriff's Office. The Commissoners will be surprised once the educate themselves. It will then be interesting to see whether or not they change their tune.