Can anyone else send Steny Hoyer an email.

[easyliving45]

Would you please provide a concrete direct reference indicating exactly where and how Trump incited the mob?


Thanks in Advance!

He told them for months they could " stop the steal" and that Pence had the power to overturn the electors on January 6th. Both lies.

He said "go to the capitol".

Just like Bin Laden used idiots who thought they would go to heaven and get 100's; of virgins Trump used idiots to do his bidding.

 

[Bird Dog]

He said "go to the capitol"

....and do what?

 

[Gilligan]

He said "go to the capitol".
.

I know a lot of people who attended the rally and then "went to the capitol". They were there....you were not. Think about that for a second before making your next nonsensical post.

 

[Toxick]

He told them for months they could " stop the steal" and that Pence had the power to overturn the electors on January 6th. Both lies.

Just to clarify my earlier request: I asked for a direct reference which pinpoints what Trump said that may be translated to "Storm The Capitol".

I apologize if I was ambiguous in my query which made you infer that I was asking about something that is, at best, tangentially related, and I am at a loss drawing a connection between "stop the steal" and "raid the Capitol Building". I am asking that you connect those dots for me, so I can see for myself.

He said "go to the capitol".

Can you provide any context for this quote, so that I can see for myself where Trump encouraged or incited violence and insurrection. Because if he is guilty of that, I certainly want to see the son of a bitch behind bars, as would any peace-loving citizen. I'd like to be positively sure, myself before rushing to the front line of a torch-wielding throng of justice-seekers.

Normally, I wouldn't ask - I do like to do my own research, however I cannot seem to find anything online that isn't positively awash in spin and editorial commentary. You and Jake Loban have found actual evidence that I have missed, and I am just trying to catch up.

 

[easyliving45]

Just to clarify my earlier request: I asked for a direct reference which pinpoints what Trump said that may be translated to "Storm The Capitol".

I apologize if I was ambiguous in my query which made you infer that I was asking about something that is, at best, tangentially related, and I am at a loss drawing a connection between "stop the steal" and "raid the Capitol Building". I am asking that you connect those dots for me, so I can see for myself.

Can you provide any context for this quote, so that I can see for myself where Trump encouraged or incited violence and insurrection. Because if he is guilty of that, I certainly want to see the son of a bitch behind bars, as would any peace-loving citizen. I'd like to be positively sure, myself before rushing to the front line of a torch-wielding throng of justice-seekers.

Normally, I wouldn't ask - I do like to do my own research, however I cannot seem to find anything online that isn't positively awash in spin and editorial commentary. You and Jake Loban have found actual evidence that I have missed, and I am just trying to catch up.

No you wouldn't. You guys have made excuses for all of Trumps past behavior. This is no different.

If you yell fire in a crowded room and people get trampled to death s a result you can be held criminally liable if there was no fire.

If Trump hadn't lied for months for months about the validity of the results and told people that the could stop the steal on

January 6th there would be no crowd or anyone gathered that day.

 

[Toxick]

No you wouldn't. You guys have made excuses for all of Trumps past behavior. This is no different.

You clearly have me confused with someone else.

I do not like Trump.

Ask anyone.

Never have - and likely never will. I don't believe I've defended any of his behavior. Although I don't decry every breath he takes and demonize ever action he makes. But I certainly don't defend him.

If you yell fire in a crowded room and people get trampled to death s a result you can be held criminally liable if there was no fire.

That is very true. So I'm asking you to show me where the mother ****er yelled "Fire"

Please. That's all I'm asking.

January 6th there would be no crowd or anyone gathered that day.

Are you saying that crowds or gatherings are inherently bad and lead to violence?

 

[easyliving45]

You clearly have me confused with someone else.

I do not like Trump.

Ask anyone.

Never have - and likely never will. I don't believe I've defended any of his behavior. Although I don't decry every breath he takes and demonize ever action he makes. But I certainly don't defend him.







That is very true. So I'm asking you to show me where the mother ****er yelled "Fire"

Please. That's all I'm asking.





Are you saying that crowds or gatherings are inherently bad and lead to violence?

Obviously that is not what i am saying and you know that. You are making a specious argument because you cant defend Trump's behavior.

He lied to the group for months and told them they could have a hand in rejecting the results of a fraudulent election.

Neither of these things were true.

He had full knowledge of what he was doing even going so far as to not allow the national guard in to stop them.

 

[Gilligan]

Obviously that is not what i am saying and you know that. You are making a specious argument because you cant defend Trump's behavior.

He lied to the group for months and told them they could have a hand in rejecting the results of a fraudulent election.

Neither of these things were true.

He had full knowledge of what he was doing even going so far as to not allow the national guard in to stop them.

Jimmy..put down the bottle and answer Tox's question:

That is very true. So I'm asking you to show me where the mother ****er yelled "Fire"

Please. That's all I'm asking.

 

[Toxick]

Obviously that is not what i am saying and you know that. You are making a specious argument because you cant defend Trump's behavior.

Questioning my motives does not make my question any less valid. This is now the second time you've lumped me in with the group because they disagree with you on everything, and I am simply questioning you and challenging you to validate your assertions. I am very much a free thinking Independent nonconformist individual. I do not follow groupthink. I am not part of a hive mind. I do not let myself be led around by the nose by a politician, the media or any other entity. I fully acknowledge that if 350 million people do something stupid, it's still stupid. Toxick does Toxick. Full stop. I will thank you to remember this going forward in the conversation.


Now....

I am not trying to defend Trump's behavior.
I am asking you a very specific question that should have a very specific answer.


An example of such a conversation could go like this:

Q: Where did Trump incite a riot?

A: On January 5th Trump tweeted: "TO THE CAPITOL FREEDOM FIGHTERS! TOMORROW WE DRINK BLOOD FROM THE SKULLS OF CHUCK SHUMER AND ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ! LET NOT THE WALLS PREVENT YOU FROM GLORIOUS SALVATION"

See?

I'll do the Q part..

What did Trump say to incite a riot and/or encourage violence and insurrection? Please tell me where I about read this.

Now you do the A part.


It's not a trick question, but you have avoided a direct answer so far.

He lied to the group for months and told them they could have a hand in rejecting the results of a fraudulent election.

Neither of these things were true.

That's not inciting a riot, encouraging violence or expressing even the remotest desire for insurrection.

Lying is the simple goddam stock in trade for politicians since time immemorial.

When Reagan said: "We did not, repeat, did not, trade weapons or anything else for hostages" nobody stormed the capitol.
When Bush The Elder said, "Read my Lips... No New Taxes" - nobody stormed the capitol.
When Clinton The First said, "I did not have sex with that woman", nobody stormed the ****ing Capitol,
When W said, "Iraq has weapons of mass destruction", ... well that one led to violence, but nobody stormed the capitol.
When Obama said, "If you like the health care plan you have, you can keep it. ", nobody stormed the capitol.


Lies or not, simply saying "I was robbed" does not equal "CRY 'HAVOC!', AND LET SLIP THE DOGS OF WAR!"


All you need is to post a full quote preferably with context where Trump calls for violence, incites a riot, or anything like that. And I will not only take your side on this, I will argue with others here the Trump belongs in jail.

 

[easyliving45]

Questioning my motives does not make my question any less valid. This is now the second time you've lumped me in with the group because they disagree with you on everything, and I am simply questioning you and challenging you to validate your assertions. I am very much a free thinking Independent nonconformist individual. I do not follow groupthink. I am not part of a hive mind. I do not let myself be led around by the nose by a politician, the media or any other entity. I fully acknowledge that if 350 million people do something stupid, it's still stupid. Toxick does Toxick. Full stop. I will thank you to remember this going forward in the conversation.


Now....

I am not trying to defend Trump's behavior.
I am asking you a very specific question that should have a very specific answer.


An example of such a conversation could go like this:

Q: Where did Trump incite a riot?

A: On January 5th Trump tweeted: "TO THE CAPITOL FREEDOM FIGHTERS! TOMORROW WE DRINK BLOOD FROM THE SKULLS OF CHUCK SHUMER AND ALEXANDRIA OCASIO-CORTEZ! LET NOT THE WALLS PREVENT YOU FROM GLORIOUS SALVATION"

See?

I'll do the Q part..

What did Trump say to incite a riot and/or encourage violence and insurrection? Please tell me where I about read this.

Now you do the A part.


It's not a trick question, but you have avoided a direct answer so far.





That's not inciting a riot, encouraging violence or expressing even the remotest desire for insurrection.

Lying is the simple goddam stock in trade for politicians since time immemorial.

When Reagan said: "We did not, repeat, did not, trade weapons or anything else for hostages" nobody stormed the capitol.
When Bush The Elder said, "Read my Lips... No New Taxes" - nobody stormed the capitol.
When Clinton The First said, "I did not have sex with that woman", nobody stormed the ****ing Capitol,
When W said, "Iraq has weapons of mass destruction", ... well that one led to violence, but nobody stormed the capitol.
When Obama said, "If you like the health care plan you have, you can keep it. ", nobody stormed the capitol.


Lies or not, simply saying "I was robbed" does not equal "CRY 'HAVOC!', AND LET SLIP THE DOGS OF WAR!"


All you need is to post a full quote preferably with context where Trump calls for violence, incites a riot, or anything like that. And I will not only take your side on this, I will argue with others here the Trump belongs in jail.

So you honestly read what i had previously wrote and what you go from it was that i was saying public gatherings were bad?


None of the things you attribute to other presidents rise to the level of sedition.

However Trumps does since his disinformation was directly related to an election and was an attempt to overturn a free and fair election he knows that he lost.


In January of last year Trump publicly said that Covid was no more dangerous than the flu and would disappear like magic.

In private he said it was deadly serious and much worse than the Flu.

That is more in line with the typical political spin you are talking about.

Trump months before the election installed his largest private donor to head the Post office with direct instructions to slow down the mail service and to limit democratic mail in ballots.

He attempted to convince people the election was going to be fraudulent even prior to voting because of mail in voting.

Through disinformation he told his supporters they could help to "stop the steal"

He called the Georgia secretary of state and tried to convince him to "find" 12,000 votes for him. He did the same with Pennsylvania.

He filed dozens of frivolous lawsuits that were summarily dismissed.

He told his supporters Pence had the power to reject the certified election results on January 6th ( Pence had no such power)

He told his supporters to go to the capitol and stop the steal while Pence was certifying the results.

He refused to send in the national guard while Pence was on the phone begging him to for over 2 hours while the capitol was attacked.

If he hadn't done these things there would have been no attack on the capitol that die and 7 Americans would still be alive.

He did absolutely everything in his power to try to overturn the will of 81 million Americans who voted for his opponent.

Yet you still defend his behavior. He didn't have to say it directly the last four years have shown his supporters will do not only what he says but what they think he says, what they think he wants them to do. He was well aware of what he was doing and was careful not to incriminate himself while doing it,

 

[Gilligan]

So you honestly read what i had previously wrote and what you go from it was that i was saying public gatherings were bad?


None of the things you attribute to other presidents rise to the level of sedition.

However Trumps does since his disinformation was directly related to an election and was an attempt to overturn a free and fair election he knows that he lost.


In January of last year Trump publicly said that Covid was no more dangerous than the flu and would disappear like magic.

In private he said it was deadly serious and much worse than the Flu.

That is more in line with the typical political spin you are talking about.

Trump months before the election installed his largest private donor to head the Post office with direct instructions to slow down the mail service and to limit democratic mail in ballots.

He attempted to convince people the election was going to be fraudulent even prior to voting because of mail in voting.

Through disinformation he told his supporters they could help to "stop the steal"

He called the Georgia secretary of state and tried to convince him to "find" 12,000 votes for him. He did the same with Pennsylvania.

He filed dozens of frivolous lawsuits that were summarily dismissed.

He told his supporters Pence had the power to reject the certified election results on January 6th ( Pence had no such power)

He told his supporters to go to the capitol and stop the steal while Pence was certifying the results.

He refused to send in the national guard while Pence was on the phone begging him to for over 2 hours while the capitol was attacked.

If he hadn't done these things there would have been no attack on the capitol that die and 7 Americans would still be alive.

He did absolutely everything in his power to try to overturn the will of 81 million Americans who voted for his opponent.

Yet you still defend his behavior. He didn't have to say it directly the last four years have shown his supporters will do not only what he says but what they think he says, what they think he wants them to do. He was well aware of what he was doing and was careful not to incriminate himself while doing it,

Where in any of that did Trump specifically incite anyone to commit violent acts, Jimmy? You really suck eggs at that "debating" thing.

 

[Toxick]

So you honestly read what i had previously wrote and what you go from it was that i was saying public gathering were bad?

Your conclusion - not mine - but YOUR conclusion was:
January 6th there would be no crowd or anyone gathered that day.




And in honestly that is the least important part of this conversation. I wonder why you're fixated on it.


Anyway....

None of the things you attribute to other presidents rise to the level of sedition.

However Trumps does since his disinformation was directly related to an election and was an attempt to overturn a free and fair election he knows that he lost.


In January of last year Trump publicly said that Covid was no more dangerous than the flu and would disappear like magic.

In private he said it was deadly serious and much worse than the Flu.

That is more in line with the typical political spin you are talking about.

Trump months before the election installed his largest private donor to head the Post office with direct instructions to slow down the mail service and to limit democratic mail in ballots.

He attempted to convince people the election was going to be fraudulent even prior to voting because of mail in voting.

Through disinformation he told his supporters they could help to "stop the steal"

He called the Georgia secretary of state and tried to convince him to "find" 12,000 votes for him. He did the same with Pennsylvania.

He filed dozens of frivolous lawsuits that were summarily dismissed.

He told his supporters Pence had the power to reject the certified election results on January 6th ( Pence had no such power)

He told his supporters to go to the capitol and stop the steal while Pence was certifying the results.

He refused to send in the national guard while Pence was on the phone begging him to for over 2 hours while the capitol was attacked.

If he hadnt done these things there would have been no attack on the capitol that die and 7 Americans would still be alive.

He did absolutely everything in his power to try to overturn the will of 81 million Americans who voted for his opponent.

I see absolutely nothing that constitutes the incitement of an insurrection. I see a list of things he's said and done that you don't like. And I'll even say it's a list of things he's said and done that I don't like.


Simply saying things that I don't like does not constitute in the incitement of violence or insurrection.


Are you familiar with the phrase: Post hoc ergo propter hoc?

Yet you still defend his behavior.

I do?

Please point out where I did that?

 

[Gilligan]

Are you familiar with the phrase: Post hoc ergo propter hoc?

..Jimmy would only be familiar with that phrase if it translated to: "I don't wanna pay my child support...so I'm going to go get drunk"

 

[easyliving45]

Your conclusion - not mine - but YOUR conclusion was:
January 6th there would be no crowd or anyone gathered that day.




And in honestly that is the least important part of this conversation. I wonder why you're fixated on it.

Because without his incitement there would have been no riot and no deaths.

I wonder why you cant understand that?

Anyway....

I see absolutely nothing that constitutes the incitement of an insurrection. I see a list of things he's said and done that you don't like. And I'll even say it's a list of things he's said and done that I don't like.


Simply saying things that I don't like does not constitute in the incitement of violence or insurrection.


Are you familiar with the phrase: Post hoc ergo propter hoc?

Well that is what the impeachment trail in the House and the senate aim to prove.

He was already impeached now we will see if he is also found guilty and barred from future office.

Would you agree saying Pelosi should be shot is protected free speech?

Yet if Trump said it on his twitter every day after the election and every time he was on TV and a lunatic wearing a MAGA hat shot her you could say that he had incited the shooting.

Free speech doesn't not mean free from consequences or responsibility. .




I do?

Please point out where I did that?

Please see your last post where you claim to not "like" what Trump said yet you don't hold him responsible for his seditious actions and words.

Installing your top private donor with the instructions to sow down mail service primarily used by Democrats is proof enough.

YET YOU DEFENDED IT.

 

[Toxick]

Yet if Trump said it on his twitter every day after the election and every time he was on TV and a lunatic wearing a MAGA hat shot her you could say that he had incited the shooting.

Yes. I would agree with this hypothetical narrative. He would have incited the hypothetical shooting.

That is the sort of quote I'm asking you for, but instead of "Shoot Pelosi" or some other form of smoking gun, you've given me a lot of interpretation, hand-waving and about a million other things related and unrelated that he's lied about - but nothing of substance.

Free speech doesn't not mean free from consequences or responsibility. .

I agree.

Please see your last post where you claim to not "like" what Trump said yet you don't hold him responsible for his seditious actions and words.

I find his actions shady and slimy and all around questionable - but I have yet to see you point out anything SEDITIOUS or INCITEFUL. You think his words and actions are seditious because that's what you want to see. You came to a conclusion at the very beginning, and you have bent the narrative and interpreted the truth to fit that conclusion, and logic and reason and context be damned. Trump was guilty of sedition in your eyes, and although you cannot show me ONE SINGLE ****ING WORD where his is ENCOURAGING OR INCITING VIOLENCE, you doggedly continue to insist that he has.

The fact that I don't buy into that sort of bullshit is not defending Trump. If you had shown me ANYTHING that indicated he had said something, I would have defended YOU - instead you've handed me a pile of innuendo, assumptions, opinion and perception - none of which I consider evidence.

Installing your top private donor with the instructions to sow down mail service primarily used by Democrats is proof enough.

YET YOU DEFENDED IT.

I did no such thing.

 

[Gilligan]

Installing your top private donor with the instructions to sow down mail service primarily used by Democrats is proof enough.

Jimmy..Cusic ole boy..English man, so you not speak it??

 

[easyliving45]

Yes. I would agree with this hypothetical narrative. He would have incited the hypothetical shooting.

That is the sort of quote I'm asking you for, but instead of "Shoot Pelosi" or some other form of smoking gun, you've given me a lot of interpretation, hand-waving and about a million other things related and unrelated that he's lied about - but nothing of substance.




I agree.




I find his actions shady and slimy and all around questionable - but I have yet to see you point out anything SEDITIOUS or INCITEFUL. You think his words and actions are seditious because that's what you want to see. You came to a conclusion at the very beginning, and you have bent the narrative and interpreted the truth to fit that conclusion, and logic and reason and context be damned. Trump was guilty of sedition in your eyes, and although you cannot show me ONE SINGLE ****ING WORD where his is ENCOURAGING OR INCITING VIOLENCE, you doggedly continue to insist that he has.

The fact that I don't buy into that sort of bullshit is not defending Trump. If you had shown me ANYTHING that indicated he had said something, I would have defended YOU - instead you've handed me a pile of innuendo, assumptions, opinion and perception - none of which I consider evidence.




I did no such thing.

Ok. Well we are at least getting somewhere.

When Trump repeatedly told his supporters to "stop the steal" What do you believe he was saying?

Did they in anyway have any legal authority or power to stop the election?

NO.

The only thing available to them was physical force as there is no legal means for a rag tag group of lunatics to over turn a free and fair election.


By repeatedly claiming his supporters had the power to over turn the results of an election "stolen" from him Trump incited the violence that took place a the capitol.

 

[DaSDGuy]

I "clicked" on the link in Hoyer's letter to connect to his office and received the following:

Blocked by Web Anti-Virus
Reason: threat of data loss
Detection method: Cloud Protection

Appropriate for Hoyer, ya think?

 

[Hijinx]

I "clicked" on the link in Hoyer's letter to connect to his office and received the following:

Blocked by Web Anti-Virus
Reason: threat of data loss
Detection method: Cloud Protection

Appropriate for Hoyer, ya think?

Yeah it wouldn't let me in yesterday either. he doesn't want to hear what Marylanders think of his sorry ass.

 

[stgislander]

Yeah it wouldn't let me in yesterday either. he doesn't want to hear what Marylanders think of his sorry ass.

His "constituents" have a direct line to his office.