Goldenhawk
Well-Known Member
So... you never made a single mistake? You never needed grace to recover from a bad decision? Wow. Must be great to be you.
Cant tell if serious.......
- Thread starter glhs837
- Start date
Please ellobarate on your expertise. seems the medical community and even law enforcement is not as well informed as you.
Yes, let's shove mental illness back into the shadows, don't discuss it as such, make it something to be kept hidden and untreated.
Hopefully they all kill themselves and quickly, think of the millions, if not billions of doallrs we could save in medical and legal fees.
MiddleGround
Well-Known Member
Exactly how many drug addicts do you know that have used one time, cleaned up, and never went back to it? Your reference to a "single mistake" is not valid. If it was a "single mistake" then they wouldn't be called ADDICTS.
So you are saying that all drug addicts suffer from mental illness? Normal one day... the next day you take too many Oxy pills and you are mentally ill?
Goldenhawk
Well-Known Member
You want a real example? Okay, take my mom. Upstanding mature woman, 50+ years married, Master's Degree in education, book author, active church member, involved family, model citizen, of perfectly sound mind. But she has fibromyalgia and chronic pain, and was prescribed oxycontin for relief. Took it as labeled for a long time, but (as common with chronic pain) it started being less effective. To keep her life tolerable, she wasn't getting enough from her current doctor, who although sympathetic to the returning/rising pain levels knew he couldn't give her more. Adding every other non-prescription pain med didn't handle the pain; she'd spend days curled up unable to function effectively. So she "doctor shopped" and found another doc who would write her a supplemental prescription - without knowing she was already getting supplied elsewhere. She didn't realize the path she was on; she thought she was making a logical choice for meeting her very valid needs. My Dad and all our family - including her doctor son-in-law - had no idea what was going on. After the third doctor got involved, insurance figured out what was going on and cut her off, cold turkey. At that point she started complaining to family about the heartless doctors, and we discovered the situation and intervened.
She was literally baby-steps away from being a full-blown pill addict, despite all the positive things in her life. If she was single and didn't have involved family members, my mom would be one of those vagrant addicts you heartlessly throw away.
Choices? Yes, many individual choices. Not one "I think I'll pop an illegal pill today" choice anywhere. Instead, many thoughtful choices made by a mature upstanding lady, who's very near the top of the intelligence pile. But those multiple choices, each apparently logical in isolation, led somewhere very bad when piled on each other.
So how does that fit your world view?
It's my considered opinion that you've got an overly simplistic view, and it's easier for you to believe the victim is the problem. Because then you aren't personally involved in finding a solution, you just get to point fingers.
Instead, how about remembering that each and every one of those folks has a story, and has REASONS for those choices, even if you in your ivory palace can't see them. Maybe it's not fibromyalgia; maybe they were raped repeatedly as a child by an abusive relative, or pick any other real traumatic history, and they're just trying to numb the pain that won't go away any other way. You don't know, and you don't get to judge.
I'm not saying the addicts are right - but you're definitely wrong.
What did it take to fix Mom's situation? People willing to be involved in her painful life, not people like you saying "She screwed up. She deserves to suffer." Yeah, it sucked for us, Mom's family, to go thru the recovery with her. But I take heart knowing she made it through, and it was worth the pain of being involved.
I'm guessing that your mother is still in pain from the fibromyalgia?
MiddleGround
Well-Known Member
Am I? Pretty sure you have let your own personal experiences and emotion keep you from staying focused on my original and contiguous point
My point STILL is that addicts are addicts because of choice... not circumstance. In each and every event it was due to a decision made my the person themselves and we need to stop treating addicts the same way we do people with cancer or some other affliction in which the recipient had ZERO CHOICE!
I'm sorry to hear about your mother however, she did make a choice to "doctor shop" and keep her problem a secret. I truely hope she is doing better.
BTW... your mother's situation probably consistutes less than 10% of the overall addiction problem so...
Goldenhawk
Well-Known Member
Well, I'm pretty sure that my experiences (not emotional at all) taught me to be more gracious and loving towards those trapped in situations they can no longer control, regardless of how they got there. I hope you too can learn from her story.
So what?
You obviously feel very justified in your world view. I sincerely hope you never encounter these situations personally or in your family or friends.
luvmygdaughters
Well-Known Member
If drug addiction is a disease, than its one that is self induced. I'm not saying there aren't instances of people becoming addicted to pain medications, but I believe that percentage to be very small. When you read stories like the one that was on here, about the father and his buddy doing drugs in the car with his 2 year old son in the car, I have no pity or compassion for them. I feel sorry for the victims they are creating, the kids without parents, the mothers and father who bury their children. The problem, in my humble opinion, is that we have become accepting of it as a society. They are not treated as criminals when they're caught, they are sent to rehab, over and over again. They are given a drug that brings them out of the overdose, only to be mad that you ruined their high.
MiddleGround
Well-Known Member
TCROW
Well-Known Member
You two would make quite a dynamic duo.
luvmygdaughters
Well-Known Member
Not sure about that, everyone is entitled to their opinion. I don't need you to approve or disapprove of it. Just as I'm sure you don't need mine. Its a very touchy issue and with the ever increasing opiate problem this country has, a solution needs to be found. I think we are all in agreement with that. One of the problems, again in my opinion only, is users are given every opportunity, help and support to get them straight. For some it works, for the majority, I say no. There was an arrest made yesterday of a man who was dealing drugs, he was living in subsidized housing! Housing that was intended for low income families to have a safe place to live and raise their children. Not for drug users and sellers to maintain their addictions. Gee, I guess I'm giving addicts a bad name. At some time you need to be held responsible for your actions, if you blame everyone else for your mistakes, than you never think you've done nothing wrong and continue with the same actions and results.
Is alcholism self induced, because you better not take a sip, You might want to consult with mental health PROFESSIONALS and those that treat alcoholics and addicts.
You would be amazed that the treatment is very similiar. Like any disease, there is a medical treatment and counselling as well as self improvement.
Addicts, like alcoholics are encouraged to attend "group", meaning AA meetings. They work through the same steps. They learn that they will always be an addict and that they most work every day to stay "sober".
Yes, they use the word sober.
luvmygdaughters
Well-Known Member
Interesting. Is it "Dependence" or "Addiction"
Is there a difference between physical dependence and addiction?
Yes. Addiction—or compulsive drug use despite harmful consequences—is characterized by an inability to stop using a drug; failure to meet work, social, or family obligations; and, sometimes (depending on the drug), tolerance and withdrawal. The latter reflect physical dependence in which the body adapts to the drug, requiring more of it to achieve a certain effect (tolerance) and eliciting drug-specific physical or mental symptoms if drug use is abruptly ceased (withdrawal). Physical dependence can happen with the chronic use of many drugs—including many prescription drugs, even if taken as instructed. Thus, physical dependence in and of itself does not constitute addiction, but it often accompanies addiction. This distinction can be difficult to discern, particularly with prescribed pain medications, for which the need for increasing dosages can represent tolerance or a worsening underlying problem, as opposed to the beginning of abuse or addiction.
Is there a difference between physical dependence and addiction?
Yes. Addiction—or compulsive drug use despite harmful consequences—is characterized by an inability to stop using a drug; failure to meet work, social, or family obligations; and, sometimes (depending on the drug), tolerance and withdrawal. The latter reflect physical dependence in which the body adapts to the drug, requiring more of it to achieve a certain effect (tolerance) and eliciting drug-specific physical or mental symptoms if drug use is abruptly ceased (withdrawal). Physical dependence can happen with the chronic use of many drugs—including many prescription drugs, even if taken as instructed. Thus, physical dependence in and of itself does not constitute addiction, but it often accompanies addiction. This distinction can be difficult to discern, particularly with prescribed pain medications, for which the need for increasing dosages can represent tolerance or a worsening underlying problem, as opposed to the beginning of abuse or addiction.
TCROW
Well-Known Member
You’ve now been introduced to the difference between psychological and physical dependence. A very good start, but I recommend you keep reading.
luvmygdaughters
Well-Known Member
Yes. Addiction—or compulsive drug use despite harmful consequences—is characterized by an inability to stop using a drug; failure to meet work, social, or family obligations; and, sometimes (depending on the drug), tolerance and withdrawal.
Again, this is a choice that was made by the addict. The first time, knowing the possibility of addiction was real, they chose to ingest their substance of choice. They continued to use the drug until their bodies have developed a physical need for the drug. This is where, I am supposing, the term "disease" is coming from. I knew kids in school who smoked pot, I knew adults who did cocaine. Some quit, some got help with the problem and some continued on their destructive pattern until they died. There are always going to be individuals, know matter how much support and help you give, that will destroy their lives. Unfortunately, they also have tendency to destroy or hurt other lives as well. I know it sounds harsh, however, there is no comparison to a child in St. Judes with cancer and an addict who chooses to shoot his veins up with poison. The child in St. Judes is suffering with a disease, the addict is suffering from a choice he/she made.
Again, this is a choice that was made by the addict. The first time, knowing the possibility of addiction was real, they chose to ingest their substance of choice. They continued to use the drug until their bodies have developed a physical need for the drug. This is where, I am supposing, the term "disease" is coming from. I knew kids in school who smoked pot, I knew adults who did cocaine. Some quit, some got help with the problem and some continued on their destructive pattern until they died. There are always going to be individuals, know matter how much support and help you give, that will destroy their lives. Unfortunately, they also have tendency to destroy or hurt other lives as well. I know it sounds harsh, however, there is no comparison to a child in St. Judes with cancer and an addict who chooses to shoot his veins up with poison. The child in St. Judes is suffering with a disease, the addict is suffering from a choice he/she made.
Goldenhawk
Well-Known Member
So because they made one or several bad choices, we write them off?
luvmygdaughters
Well-Known Member
Well, it would seem, they chose to write themselves off, when they continued to use.
frequentflier
happy to be living
Today a 27 year old woman is being "put to rest". She was a mother, daughter, grand daughter, aunt, niece, cousin and friend to many. No amount of rehabilitation could help her shake the $hit that had a powerful hold on her.
RIP, Mel.
RIP, Mel.