Catholic Preists

[2ndAmendment]

Considering most non- Eastern Orthodox churches broke away from the Catholic church they made things up too.

Actually not, but this is not the forum for that discussion which has been discussed ad nauseam in the Religion forum. You can search if you are interested. The Protestants were protesting changes that were being made by Rome that did not agree with scripture. There is also discussion of the differences between the Bible the Catholics use and the one that is general accepted as canonical.

 

[Bustem' Down]

If you want to get technical, the division goes even farther. The catholic church, and thus the rest of western christianity is based off the teachings of Paul, but christian churches founded in the middle east by the teaching of the Apostle Thomas teach something radically different.


Anyways, I think that the Church should keep celibacy (sp?) in place. those men are married to the Mother Church. I think that if we keep the church conservative and the governments a little liberal, we keep a real good balance in the world. The religious conservatives keep the secular liberals from getting too crazy and vice versa.

 

[Triggerfish]

I think the media did a poor job of informing parents of the details of this stuff. I remember feeling deceived when I found out that most of the victims were teenage boys.

Why? In my mind, a "pedophile" is someone who goes after little kids of both genders. I don't believe the term applies to adults who commit statutory rape. Obviously, both are henious crimes. But as I understand it, they are committed by two separate and distinct groups of offenders. Is it accurate to say that an offender who targets little kids is not likely to go after teenagers, and vice versa?
"

Thanks, you pretty much, you stated what I really meant but I happened to screw it up.

 

[Triggerfish]

If you want to get technical, the division goes even farther. The catholic church, and thus the rest of western christianity is based off the teachings of Paul, but christian churches founded in the middle east by the teaching of the Apostle Thomas teach something radically different.


Anyways, I think that the Church should keep celibacy (sp?) in place. those men are married to the Mother Church. I think that if we keep the church conservative and the governments a little liberal, we keep a real good balance in the world. The religious conservatives keep the secular liberals from getting too crazy and vice versa.

I'd like to exchange "Middle East" for "Hellenic" or "Greek" since when people think of Middle East they think of Arabs, Persians and other modern Moslem people. The eastern half of the Roman empire was Hellenic while the western half became Latin. Although Contantinople(present Istanbul) is now in Turkey it was a Greek colony before the time of the Roman Empire. I believe besides Rome the other Patriarches were based in Constantinople(first among equals of the eastern Patriarchs), Jerusalem, Alexandria. After some time the Patriarch of Rome(aka the Pope) decided he was the leader of the Christain church and wanted obedience from the rest of the Patriarchs. They of course refused. Later on the Pope and the Patriarch of Constantinople excommunicatted each other.

 

[Triggerfish]

The Protestants were protesting changes that were being made by Rome that did not agree with scripture. There is also discussion of the differences between the Bible the Catholics use and the one that is general accepted as canonical.

Considering that there are so many different Protestant groups someone made something up

Some Protestant groups such as Calvinists(I'm not 100% sure of this since I studied religions in high school and that was almost 15 yrs ago) believe certain people were chosen to go to heaven and others to hell and there is nothing you can do to change it.

Others believe all you have to do is ask Jesus into your heart once and you are saved no matter what you do later on.

Some others believe after you're saved you need to stay in good standing.

Then there are the groups that are more on the fringe.

Someone is making something up........

or everyone including the Catholics are just taking the same information and thinking it means different things. Also some groups probably got some information that the other groups didn't.


I'm going to quit before I start babbling....maybe I am already babbling.

 

[2ndAmendment]

Considering that there are so many different Protestant groups someone made something up

Some Protestant groups such as Calvinists(I'm not 100% sure of this since I studied religions in high school and that was almost 15 yrs ago) believe certain people were chosen to go to heaven and others to hell and there is nothing you can do to change it.

Others believe all you have to do is ask Jesus into your heart once and you are saved no matter what you do later on.

Some others believe after you're saved you need to stay in good standing.

Then there are the groups that are more on the fringe.

Someone is making something up........

or everyone including the Catholics are just taking the same information and thinking it means different things. Also some groups probably got some information that the other groups didn't.


I'm going to quit before I start babbling....maybe I am already babbling.

There are things that are made up like purgatory and there is "group think". Much of what you list is "group think" and much of it is wrong. The problem lies in the fact that many people who call themselves Christian never read the Bible. Most never read the entire Bible even once and that includes most ministers. I was told by one that reading the entire Bible is not required in seminary. I think that is very wrong. How is one supposed to shepherd the flock if they don't have all the information themselves?

One saved - always saved -> Baptists - that doctrine does not hold with

Matthew 24:12-13
<sup id="en-NASB-23970">12</sup>"Because lawlessness is increased, most people's love will grow cold. <sup id="en-NASB-23971">13</sup>"But the one who endures to the end, he will be saved.

The idea that some are "destined" for hell has some validity in scripture as well.

Erroneous "group think" is the result of lack of knowledge of scripture or taking scripture out of context.

But, again, this is not the forum for this discussion.

 

[California_bred]

. The Protestants were protesting changes that were being made by Rome that did not agree with scripture.

Stating Protestants in a general term would be wrong in this situation wouldn't it? Considering some prostestant groups broke away for other reasons. The Church of England broke away because Henry VIII wanted a divorce and the Catholic church didn't want to grant him one, so he started his own church.

 

[Tonio]

The Church of England broke away because Henry VIII wanted a divorce and the Catholic church didn't want to grant him one, so he started his own church.

I wonder what Henry VIII would say about Prince Charles postponing his wedding to Camilla a day so as to avoid conflicting with the Pope's funeral. Probably, "Yeah, whatever... (munch munch gulp) pass me another leg of lamb."

 

[Bogart]

I'd like to exchange "Middle East" for "Hellenic" or "Greek" since when people think of Middle East they think of Arabs, Persians and other modern Moslem people. The eastern half of the Roman empire was Hellenic while the western half became Latin. Although Contantinople(present Istanbul) is now in Turkey it was a Greek colony before the time of the Roman Empire. I believe besides Rome the other Patriarches were based in Constantinople(first among equals of the eastern Patriarchs), Jerusalem, Alexandria. After some time the Patriarch of Rome(aka the Pope) decided he was the leader of the Christain church and wanted obedience from the rest of the Patriarchs. They of course refused. Later on the Pope and the Patriarch of Constantinople excommunicatted each other.

Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Now it's Turkish delight on a moonlit night

Every gal in Constantinople
Lives in Istanbul, not Constantinople
So if you've a date in Constantinople
She'll be waiting in Istanbul

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way

So take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works
That's nobody's business but the Turks

Istanbul (Istanbul)
Istanbul (Istanbul)

Even old New York was once New Amsterdam
Why they changed it I can't say
People just liked it better that way

Istanbul was Constantinople
Now it's Istanbul, not Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works
That's nobody's business but the Turks

So take me back to Constantinople
No, you can't go back to Constantinople
Been a long time gone, Constantinople
Why did Constantinople get the works
That's nobody's business but the Turks

Istanbul

 

[2ndAmendment]

Stating Protestants in a general term would be wrong in this situation wouldn't it? Considering some prostestant groups broke away for other reasons. The Church of England broke away because Henry VIII wanted a divorce and the Catholic church didn't want to grant him one, so he started his own church.

Yeah, Henry VIII rejected the authority of the pope in 1533. The Church of England is certainly non Catholic, but in the strictest terms is probably not protestant. But again, this is not germane to the topic of the thread.

 

[Bustem' Down]

I'd like to exchange "Middle East" for "Hellenic" or "Greek" since when people think of Middle East they think of Arabs, Persians and other modern Moslem people. The eastern half of the Roman empire was Hellenic while the western half became Latin. Although Contantinople(present Istanbul) is now in Turkey it was a Greek colony before the time of the Roman Empire. I believe besides Rome the other Patriarches were based in Constantinople(first among equals of the eastern Patriarchs), Jerusalem, Alexandria. After some time the Patriarch of Rome(aka the Pope) decided he was the leader of the Christain church and wanted obedience from the rest of the Patriarchs. They of course refused. Later on the Pope and the Patriarch of Constantinople excommunicatted each other.

I agree with the relation of Middle East with arabic, however, Greek or hellenic doesn't seem right. That seems to point at the Greek Orthodox Church which was founded later than I am refering to. These churches were founded long before the consolidation of the Church of Rome and the dogma is so radically different as almost not be christian. They are more of a blend of Christianity and a form of Juddism prior to the current Rabinic Juddism.

 

[Triggerfish]

I agree with the relation of Middle East with arabic, however, Greek or hellenic doesn't seem right. That seems to point at the Greek Orthodox Church which was founded later than I am refering to. These churches were founded long before the consolidation of the Church of Rome and the dogma is so radically different as almost not be christian. They are more of a blend of Christianity and a form of Juddism prior to the current Rabinic Juddism.

I called them Hellenic because Latin was not the linga franca in the east part of the empire, it was Greek. Greek speakers had an opinion of Latin speakers as crude and uncultured. Even in the western part of the empire they absorbed an immense amount of Greek culture. Among rich Roman families having a Greek tutor for their children was one of the signs for wealth.

These churches were founded long before the consolidation of the Church of Rome and the dogma is so radically different as almost not be christian.

I'm sure they may say the same thing about western Christaianity. Isn't that statement ethnocentric to your own upbringings?

 

[Bustem' Down]

I'm sure they may say the same thing about western Christaianity. Isn't that statement ethnocentric to your own upbringings?

No, I was just trying to establish a historical timeline. The current church in Rome as we know it wasn't really founded until the First Council of Nicea in 325AD when all differences in the different regional churches were settles and overall authority was given to the Bishop of Rome. The chirstian churches founded in parts of northern Iraq were founded by people taught by the Apostle Thomas. I wasn't trying to say one was more right than the ohter, just when each was established.

 

[Triggerfish]

the dogma is so radically different as almost not be christian.

The way it was worded it does sounds like you're stating that eastern Christianity isn't as Christian as western Christianity which did get influenced by Paganism.

I'm not saying that you meant that eastern Christianity is wrong.

I hope I'm reading everything correctly and not misunderstanding anything.

 

[Triggerfish]

I wonder what Henry VIII would say about Prince Charles postponing his wedding to Camilla a day so as to avoid conflicting with the Pope's funeral. Probably, "Yeah, whatever... (munch munch gulp) pass me another leg of lamb."

I agree, with him it had less to do with religion and more to do with his own personal freedom. IMHO

 

[Triggerfish]

Well, this thread is going all over the place.....

 

[Bustem' Down]

Well, this thread is going all over the place.....

It does seem that way. Maybe it's time we let it just die out.

 

[Triggerfish]

there........

 

[Triggerfish]

It does seem that way. Maybe it's time we let it just die out.

Having a discussion and not agreeing can be fun as long as you know the other person(s) aren't going to take it too seriously and you can laugh about it afterwards.

 

[Bustem' Down]

Yeah, some people take things waaay to seriously. I laugh at people who get offended because someone might have a different opinion than them.