Celibacy
- Thread starter MMDad
- Start date
D
dems4me
Guest
vraiblonde said:
I could be wrong Vria, but I think its the parts in the Bible where Joseph was upset at his wife being pregnant and he hadn't had sex with her and he was really upset about this. Then an angle came to him and said that Mary was with child and it was immaculate conception and that Joseph wasn't to get to bent out of shape about it or something. It was prophisized in the New Testament (Isaiah ?). :shrug:
Right. "Immaculate Conception" is Mary's virgin birth, not Jesus'.camily said:
And don't worry - my girlfriend is a Catholic and SHE didn't know that the Immaculate Conception refers to Mary, not Jesus. I called her Mom and told on her.
D
dems4me
Guest
camily said:
How could it have been unimmaculate? It was the Holy Spirit I thought that made her pregnant in Immaculate Conception style. :shrug:
citysherry
I Need a Beer
MysticalMom said:
You're way off base on this one -- celibacy does not cause or induce one to become a pedophile.
Club'nBabySeals
Where are my pants?
Celibacy for Priests is not dictated by the Bible, though it is (and was) certainly looked upon as favorable.
Very early Catholic Priests commonly married and had families, but this practice met an end sometime into the 10th century when the Roman Catholic church gained significant power over most of Europe. Property, holdings, titles, and all manner of powerful positions were becoming dominated by ecclesiastical nepotism, which led to the eventual RC Church mandate that those entering the service of the church should remain celibate.
Well said.
Very early Catholic Priests commonly married and had families, but this practice met an end sometime into the 10th century when the Roman Catholic church gained significant power over most of Europe. Property, holdings, titles, and all manner of powerful positions were becoming dominated by ecclesiastical nepotism, which led to the eventual RC Church mandate that those entering the service of the church should remain celibate.
citysherry said:
Well said.
On Celibacy...
Matthew 19:27-29
Jesus praises the Apostles for giving up "all" to follow him.
1 Corinthians 7:32-33
The Catholic Church teaches that it is better if the religious are not married. Meanwhile there are some cases where the Church does allow it. For example, people born another religion and then convert to Catholicism may take vows to be a priest and remain married.
On Purgatory...
The actual word "purgatory" is not present in the Bible. Early Church leaders, however, believed in the presence of a middle state between Heaven and Hell where sinners were purged of their transgressions based on several Biblical passages.
1 Corinthians 3:15
Fire is a metaphor for the Holy Spirit, which is what purifies sinners in Purgatory.
Hebrews 12:23
There is a clear distinction here between the "firstborn," who are enrolled in heaven, and those who need to be "made perfect." The method in which this happens is Purgatory.
There is a Biblical basis for these two aspects of Church teaching, and these are just some that I have encountered.
Matthew 19:27-29
Jesus praises the Apostles for giving up "all" to follow him.
1 Corinthians 7:32-33
The Catholic Church teaches that it is better if the religious are not married. Meanwhile there are some cases where the Church does allow it. For example, people born another religion and then convert to Catholicism may take vows to be a priest and remain married.
On Purgatory...
The actual word "purgatory" is not present in the Bible. Early Church leaders, however, believed in the presence of a middle state between Heaven and Hell where sinners were purged of their transgressions based on several Biblical passages.
1 Corinthians 3:15
Fire is a metaphor for the Holy Spirit, which is what purifies sinners in Purgatory.
Hebrews 12:23
There is a clear distinction here between the "firstborn," who are enrolled in heaven, and those who need to be "made perfect." The method in which this happens is Purgatory.
There is a Biblical basis for these two aspects of Church teaching, and these are just some that I have encountered.
Fred Hoeck
New Member
Are you saying that the Bible, praised as the undeniable Word of God and the only thing true by the Fundamentalist Protestants is man made and not 100 % divinely inspired?itsbob said:
itsbob
I bowl overhand
There ya go.. they want you to believe the changes to the scripture were form GOd, but it seems awful coincedental that the changes in the "laws" oft times coincide with changes in the church. Then when asked why the church changed (ie celibate priest) they point to the bible that THEY rewrote.
The number and earliness of the manuscripts that we have of the Bible show that Bible scripture has not been changed over the years. Some churches latch on to scripture out of context but the Bible remains unchanged.itsbob said:
The Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception is that Mary was formed in her mother's womb with out sex. The Immaculate Conception was proclaimed by Pope Pius IX in 1854. The Catholic doctrine of the Immaculate Conception states that Mary was born without sin and remained sinless. This is absolutely contrary to the Bible. This led to other Catholic doctrines, the Assumption of Mary and the Perpetual Virginity of Mary. Both of these doctrines are contrary to the Bible and are only found in Catholic doctrine.
Purgatory is not in the Bible. Purgatory was declared Catholic doctrine in 1274 at the Second Council of Lyons.
Fred Hoeck
New Member
Check the Catechism:2ndAmendment said:
1579 All the ordained ministers of the Latin Church, with the exception of permant deacons, are normally chosen from among men of faith who live a celibate life and intend to remain celibate "for the sake of the kingdom of heaven" Called to consecrate themselves with undivided heart to the Lord and to "the afairs of the Lord", they give themselves entirely to God and to men.
re the Immaculate Conception of Mary, it means that Mary was conceived without Original Sin.
in the Catechism, 490: ... The angel Gabriel at the moment of the Annunciation salutes her as "full of grace".
491: the doctrine of the Immaculate Conception was proclaimed by Blessed Pope Pius IX: "The most Blessed Virgin Mary was, from the first moment of her conseption, by a singular grace and privilege of almighty God and by virtue of the merits of Jesus Christ, Savior of the human race, preserved immune from all stain of original sin"
Note: the BVM had a father and mother.
itsbob
I bowl overhand
:fixed:Fred Hoeck said:
So having been born free of sin, did they do C-Sections back then?? It was a sin being born, because to be born you had to travel down the birth canal.. and according to the catholics, that is a VERY dirty place indeed.
How did Mary come to existence?
HOW that can be considered a sin, (other then the catholics thinking women were evil and dirty,a nd the scourge of the earth) I don't know.
Midnightrider
Well-Known Member
I would guess yes, considering they were named after Julius Caesar. But i could be wrong, he died around 44 BCitsbob said:
Scriptural reference for the Immaculate Concept of Mary, the Mother of God...
Genesis 3:15
This is the first instance of the Bible referring to the Redemption of the first sin and it refers explicitly to the key stance of the Virgin Mary ini this redemption. This passage suggests that God will put a special position of enmity between not only Jesus and Satan, but also Mary and Satan.
Luke 1:28
This passage suggests a special state of grace upon Mary. This special state can only occur from Immaculate Conception.
I will concede to 2A that the Assumption is not found in Scripture. However, early Christians did celebrate the feast consistently from the 5th Century on. Catholic Tradition, based on the actions of early Christians who had a clearer view of Christ due to their proximity in time, can and should play a major part in the definition of dogma. While 2A is correct in saying that many of these things were not officially declared until later, this should not lead to the preclusion of these feasts and ideas from consideration of for denial. The practices are long-standing and are directly from the earliest Christians.
And 2A, Purgatory, as it is called, is not explicitly in the Bible. A status where souls are purified is referred to, and Catholic teachers used the term Purgatory to classify it. Would you rather call this status the soul-purification status? It's the same thing.
And itsbob,
Find me somewhere that the Catholic Church says this. That's just a stereotype, akin to many racial stereotypes. Never has the Church taught that a woman's femalehood was sinful. In fact the Church embraces women for their distinctive qualities, much as she embraces the distinctive qualities of men. In fact, the Church rejected the Gospel of Thomas, among other things, because it said that Christ said women had to become more like men to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
What you will see is that the Church teaches against pre-marital sex, much like most religions. This doesn't mean that women are "evil and dirty." Save your stereotypes for your Catholic-hating group meetings, I much don't appreciate it.
Genesis 3:15
This is the first instance of the Bible referring to the Redemption of the first sin and it refers explicitly to the key stance of the Virgin Mary ini this redemption. This passage suggests that God will put a special position of enmity between not only Jesus and Satan, but also Mary and Satan.
Luke 1:28
This passage suggests a special state of grace upon Mary. This special state can only occur from Immaculate Conception.
I will concede to 2A that the Assumption is not found in Scripture. However, early Christians did celebrate the feast consistently from the 5th Century on. Catholic Tradition, based on the actions of early Christians who had a clearer view of Christ due to their proximity in time, can and should play a major part in the definition of dogma. While 2A is correct in saying that many of these things were not officially declared until later, this should not lead to the preclusion of these feasts and ideas from consideration of for denial. The practices are long-standing and are directly from the earliest Christians.
And 2A, Purgatory, as it is called, is not explicitly in the Bible. A status where souls are purified is referred to, and Catholic teachers used the term Purgatory to classify it. Would you rather call this status the soul-purification status? It's the same thing.
And itsbob,
Find me somewhere that the Catholic Church says this. That's just a stereotype, akin to many racial stereotypes. Never has the Church taught that a woman's femalehood was sinful. In fact the Church embraces women for their distinctive qualities, much as she embraces the distinctive qualities of men. In fact, the Church rejected the Gospel of Thomas, among other things, because it said that Christ said women had to become more like men to enter the Kingdom of Heaven.
What you will see is that the Church teaches against pre-marital sex, much like most religions. This doesn't mean that women are "evil and dirty." Save your stereotypes for your Catholic-hating group meetings, I much don't appreciate it.
Where does it say that?rraley said:
Just a note before going to dinner...
First off, thank you to many of you here for showing some respect in this dialogue concerning very hot issues between Catholics and Protestants. 2A, I especially want to thank you for, while being strong, not being negative...I've seen on this forum that sometimes you can get under the collar. Besides itsbob's earlier comment, I think that this has been a very constructive discussion.
Secondly, these issues that we are debating are not major in the eyes of Jesus, who taught that our job in life was to love God and to love our neighbor. Who cares if we enter a Catholic church, or a Pentacostal church, or a Baptist church. The purpose is that we learn to speak to God and to accept His saving power, and to show compassion to our neighbors, regardless of their status. Some of us decide to believe secondary characteristics like Jesus' Mother is of special status in our hearts and minds, while others do not believe their is an alternative to Heaven and Hell at the last judgement. Who cares, just live the Beatitudes, which I believe is the key aspect of Christianity:
Matthew 5:3-12
First off, thank you to many of you here for showing some respect in this dialogue concerning very hot issues between Catholics and Protestants. 2A, I especially want to thank you for, while being strong, not being negative...I've seen on this forum that sometimes you can get under the collar. Besides itsbob's earlier comment, I think that this has been a very constructive discussion.
Secondly, these issues that we are debating are not major in the eyes of Jesus, who taught that our job in life was to love God and to love our neighbor. Who cares if we enter a Catholic church, or a Pentacostal church, or a Baptist church. The purpose is that we learn to speak to God and to accept His saving power, and to show compassion to our neighbors, regardless of their status. Some of us decide to believe secondary characteristics like Jesus' Mother is of special status in our hearts and minds, while others do not believe their is an alternative to Heaven and Hell at the last judgement. Who cares, just live the Beatitudes, which I believe is the key aspect of Christianity:
Matthew 5:3-12