Charging your electric vehicle - a window to the wonder

[kwillia]

I 'wonder' what is going to happen to the costs of electricity as more switch, by choice or force, and the demand overloads providers.... gee I wonder... but in the meantime let's look how things are now....

The study has four major findings:

• There are four additional costs to powering EVs beyond electricity: cost of a home charger, commercial charging, the EV tax and "deadhead" miles.
• For now, EVs cost more to power than gasoline costs to fuel an internal combustion car that gets reasonable gas mileage.
• Charging costs vary more widely than gasoline prices.
• There are significant time costs to finding reliable public chargers – even then a charger could take 30 minutes to go from 20% to an 80% charge.

The study found that the average cost of a Level 1 charger is $600. To install a Level 2 costs $1,600 because it requires hiring an electrician. An L1 charger uses a 120-volt supply of electricity and can take 20 or more hours to charge, whereas an L2 chargers uses 240 volts and can charge in a few hours.
Which is more expensive: charging an electric vehicle or fueling a car with gas? (msn.com)

Also, don't plan on ever having a 100% charge on your EV, he said.

"It’s very difficult to charge it up to 100%," Anderson said. "The chargers slow down and the manufacturers warn you not to do it because there is additional burden on the battery system when you get your vehicle above a 90% charge.”

That means if the vehicle advertises a range of 240 miles on a full charge, a driver in reality will get considerably less on, say, an 80% charge, he said.

 

[Sneakers]

"It’s very difficult to charge it up to 100%," Anderson said. "The chargers slow down and the manufacturers warn you not to do it because there is additional burden on the battery system when you get your vehicle above a 90% charge.”

I've never heard that, but it is known that consistently charging Lithium batteries beyond 80% shortens their life dramatically. For solar charging systems, the accepted range is a 20% low to an 80% 'full'.

 

[vraiblonde]

In my travels I've seen car charging stations.....

.....excuse me a sec.....





* ahem * Okay, I'm back.....

Anyway, these people are sitting at the charging stations reading because it takes hours to get enough charge to go anywhere. You can easily search for "how long does it take to charge electric cars" and see where opponents give you a time - literally hours, up to 40 hours (!) if the battery is fully drained; and advocates hedge with "well, it depends...." and never give you an exact time.

EVs are stupid. I don't even know why they're a thing.

 

[kwillia]

 

[glhs837]

The problem isnt "EVs", its the wrong EVs. Just buy a damn Tesla and don't worry about it. I mean really, the guy who did the study bought one (Porsche) that doenst come with a decent charging network and then complains that it takes him forever to find a charger? The sad state of other companies reliance on third party charging networks is the real issue.

1. The car knows where every single Supercharger is.
2. The car routes you to them along your route so you never have to worry about if you have enough
3. The charging network is the largest and best maintained in the world.
4. Unlike third party charging networks, Tesla sets the rates and they are kept reasonable. The only exception to this rule is where govts have stepped in and required per minute vs per KWH charging.
5. No Tesla takes more than an hour to charge from 20%-80%, barring rare events like holiday jams at some stations, which are always being expanded.
6. Home charging cost isnt that significant. And here in MD, the State will pay, but even if they didnt, depending on your layout, you are looking between $500 and $1500 to install a level 2 charger.

Here, this article explains exactly what a gulf exists between other EVs and one with a built up charging network. Bying any other EV, unless you never plan to go on a trip would be silly, IMO.

Here's Google Maps to Charleston, SC.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/38.2079382,-76.4308746/Charleston,+SC/@35.5777178,-80.7320618,7z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m10!4m9!1m1!4e1!1m5!1m1!1s0x88fe7a42dca82477:0x35faf7e0aee1ec6b!2m2!1d-79.9310512!2d32.7764749!3e0

Here's a Tesla routing map, which, BTW includes where and how long you need to charge at each stop.

https://www.tesla.com/trips#/?v=M3_...eston County SC@32.7764749,-79.93105120000001

 

[PeoplesElbow]

The problem isnt "EVs", its the wrong EVs. Just buy a damn Tesla and don't worry about it. I mean really, the guy who did the study bought one (Porsche) that doenst come with a decent charging network and then complains that it takes him forever to find a charger? The sad state of other companies reliance on third party charging networks is the real issue.

1. The car knows where every single Supercharger is.
2. The car routes you to them along your route so you never have to worry about if you have enough
3. The charging network is the largest and best maintained in the world.
4. Unlike third party charging networks, Tesla sets the rates and they are kept reasonable. The only exception to this rule is where govts have stepped in and required per minute vs per KWH charging.
5. No Tesla takes more than an hour to charge from 20%-80%, barring rare events like holiday jams at some stations, which are always being expanded.
6. Home charging cost isnt that significant. And here in MD, the State will pay, but even if they didnt, depending on your layout, you are looking between $500 and $1500 to install a level 2 charger.

Here, this article explains exactly what a gulf exists between other EVs and one with a built up charging network. Bying any other EV, unless you never plan to go on a trip would be silly, IMO.

Here's Google Maps to Charleston, SC.

https://www.google.com/maps/dir/38.2079382,-76.4308746/Charleston,+SC/@35.5777178,-80.7320618,7z/data=!3m1!4b1!4m10!4m9!1m1!4e1!1m5!1m1!1s0x88fe7a42dca82477:0x35faf7e0aee1ec6b!2m2!1d-79.9310512!2d32.7764749!3e0

Here's a Tesla routing map, which, BTW includes where and how long you need to charge at each stop.

https://www.tesla.com/trips#/?v=M3_...eston County SC@32.7764749,-79.93105120000001

You don't have to have a Tesla to use it's chargers. I've read about RAV4 Prime owners using them.

 

[glhs837]

You don't have to have a Tesla to use it's chargers. I've read about RAV4 Prime owners using them.

Not Superchargers, maybe "destination chargers" or home garage chargers, both Level 2 240 volt chargers. No other maker has done the work required yet. Superchargers require integration in software as well as hardware. The Supercharger needs to talk to the car and determine the battery SOC to plan its charging . And the difference between home, destination, and Superchargers is power, which means speed.

• Tesla Superchargers are extremely powerful, 480-volt chargers that can charge a Tesla in under an hour, making them perfect for charging up on long-distance road trips.
• A Supercharger can add between 142 and 175 miles of range to your battery in just 15 minutes, depending on which model you have.
• Destination Chargers are installed by businesses and land owners for public use, but have a slower charging speed than Superchargers. A Destination Charger will add between 30 and 44 miles of range per hour of charging, depending on the Tesla model.

Last note, Tesla neither owns nor operates any destination chargers. Places that want them buy them from Tesla and install them and are responsible for them. Basically commercial grade home chargers is what you have there. Tesla owns and operate all Supercharger stations like you see at Harris Teeter.






Of course, Toyota

 

[Monello]

Just slap a few solar panels on the roof. On a sunny day you can drive forever.

 

[PeoplesElbow]

Not Superchargers, maybe "destination chargers" or home garage chargers, both Level 2 240 volt chargers. No other maker has done the work required yet. Superchargers require integration in software as well as hardware. The Supercharger needs to talk to the car and determine the battery SOC to plan its charging . And the difference between home, destination, and Superchargers is power, which means speed.

• Tesla Superchargers are extremely powerful, 480-volt chargers that can charge a Tesla in under an hour, making them perfect for charging up on long-distance road trips.
• A Supercharger can add between 142 and 175 miles of range to your battery in just 15 minutes, depending on which model you have.
• Destination Chargers are installed by businesses and land owners for public use, but have a slower charging speed than Superchargers. A Destination Charger will add between 30 and 44 miles of range per hour of charging, depending on the Tesla model.

Last note, Tesla neither owns nor operates any destination chargers. Places that want them buy them from Tesla and install them and are responsible for them. Basically commercial grade home chargers is what you have there. Tesla owns and operate all Supercharger stations like you see at Harris Teeter.






Of course, Toyota

Telsa claims if other manufactures put the comparable stuff in their vehicle they can use them.

The RAV4 prime only has about 50 miles of EV only range so a destination charger is great.

Can Non-Tesla Electric Vehicles Charge at Tesla Charging Stations?

Non-Tesla electric vehicles are able to charge at some Tesla Supercharger stations, but an adaptor of some kind is needed such as the Magic Dock.

www.motorbiscuit.com

 

[glhs837]

Telsa claims if other manufactures put the comparable stuff in their vehicle they can use them.

The RAV4 prime only has about 50 miles of EV only range so a destination charger is great.

Can Non-Tesla Electric Vehicles Charge at Tesla Charging Stations?

Non-Tesla electric vehicles are able to charge at some Tesla Supercharger stations, but an adaptor of some kind is needed such as the Magic Dock.

www.motorbiscuit.com

Right, but while Musk has said its happened low key, there's been no sign anyone's actually done it with Superchargers. And yes, sort silly to plug a 50 mile range vehicle into a Supercharger. Like trying to fill your water bottle from a firehose. The Supercharger would need to slow waaaaay down to not cook that thing.

 

[glhs837]

Car and Driver took a close look at this study and showed how they slanted things. As I said, the guy who owns this consulting group bought a Taycan. I suspect the pain and suffering of trying to go anywhere on the pitiful hodgepodge that is the non-Tesla network ticked him off.

Study Calculates EVs Have Higher 'Real World Refueling Cost' Than Gas Vehicles

But read the fine print, as the study makes some assumptions and some scary claims about electric cars.

www.caranddriver.com

 

[DaSDGuy]

In my travels I've seen car charging stations.....

.....excuse me a sec.....





* ahem * Okay, I'm back.....

Anyway, these people are sitting at the charging stations reading because it takes hours to get enough charge to go anywhere. You can easily search for "how long does it take to charge electric cars" and see where opponents give you a time - literally hours, up to 40 hours (!) if the battery is fully drained; and advocates hedge with "well, it depends...." and never give you an exact time.

EVs are stupid. I don't even know why they're a thing.

Now picture the lines when half the vehicles are EV and a hurricane is 24 hours from impact.

 

[RoseRed]

NASCAR Race Ends Early As Gas Gets Too Expensive For Anyone To Reach The Finish Line | The Babylon Bee

 

[glhs837]

Now picture the lines when half the vehicles are EV and a hurricane is 24 hours from impact.

Unlike ICE cars, most people charge at home and so don't face the issue of having to top off before evacuating. You can just go. One neat thing that Teslas done in the past is software unlocked extra range for evacuations. All Battery Management Systems (BMS) wall off a certain percentage of total battery capacity top and bottom to extend longevity. Tesla software unlocked some of that to allow greater range for hurricane evacuations.

 

[Sneakers]

So a Tesla can sit in a traffic jam while evacuating a major city for 12 hours and not lose it's charge?

It will lose some, just "turning on" the car turns on all of the electronics and sensors and video displays, etc... But certainly not as much power as is required by the motor.

But that's no different than an ICE vehicle. If you're stuck in traffic, and turn it off, it's not using fuel.

 

[DaSDGuy]

Cool. So all I need is around $80-100K for the vehicle, another %1600 and electricians cost for the charging station install at home and I am good to go. Now multiply that by two 'cause the wife drives her own vehicle too. As long as electric energy supply can keep up with demand this will work. Now, about that ten-fold increase in energy demand - who is paying for that infrastructure and where are these high powered lines going to be installed?

 

[glhs837]

Cool. So all I need is around $80-100K for the vehicle, another %1600 and electricians cost for the charging station install at home and I am good to go. Now multiply that by two 'cause the wife drives her own vehicle too. As long as electric energy supply can keep up with demand this will work. Now, about that ten-fold increase in energy demand - who is paying for that infrastructure and where are these high powered lines going to be installed?

80K to 100K is a bit of an overspend, high 40s will get you one new. Used are about the same, oddly enough. Installation of the charging point at home will of course vary. If your breaker panels near the garage, could cost maybe 500 bucks to have two 240v outlets added in the garage. You want a lice post in the driveway that needs a trench dug, of course that will cost more. Charger itself is about $500, so thats a grand. Low end around $1500 for two. Here in MD you can get some gubmint help with that. 40% of cost up to $700 bucks.

How will the grid handle it? As the need increases, utilities will add capacity. AS they have done since the grid was new. And that's why we shouldn't demand people buy EVs, so the demand curve can be met. I don't agree with subsidies or rebates. The vehicles are good enough to compete, let them.

 

[Grumpy]

How long have you worked for Tesla?

 

[DaSDGuy]

How will the grid handle it? As the need increases, utilities will add capacity. AS they have done since the grid was new.

In other words, the power company customers will pay for upgrading the grid, whether they use an EV or not. Great. At least I can avoid costs for gasoline but I can't avoid costs for EVs.

 

[GURPS]

How will the grid handle it? As the need increases, utilities will add capacity.

Yeah this is going to work out so well in CA.