Charging your electric vehicle - a window to the wonder

glhs837

Power with Control
Sorry, but you are partially correct, as our LOCAL issues will be worse, but not to the extent I say above.. My point being.. if you have been to a place where there was a line (like inner city, or on an intestate) those lines will be exponentially worse. I don't recall the last time I had to wait in line in St Mary's to get gas, and I doubt electric would be much different, though I don't see 48 charging stations at the corner of 235 and 4.. but maybe I've wrong.

But I guess you are suggesting when we go electric, no more vacations, no more long distance trips, no more interstate travel, nobody needing to be recharged enroute?

Add to that MASSIVE battery banks in commercial vehicles needing to be recharged..


So, locally, as noted, most folks will do home charging so the load on less local stations not a thing, really.


About long distance travel, the networks are growing. Tesla found a few holiday choke points and has beefed those points up, and have deployed portable charging stations to augment locations. If its done right, your vehicle knows where you are going, and what chargers are available and what to status is. And as I said, charging tech gets better all the time. Expect those times to drop even further in the next few years. Long before we see enough adoption that its a worry, I think.

Lastly, big rigs. Again, I'll stick with what I know. The real long haul, nobody's electrifying that yet, power density not there yet. The Tesla Semi good for 500 miles loaded, maybe better. Thats gets a huge amount of trucking done. The great majority of trucks simply don't so more than that in a day. So you can do a 500 one way, hit the charger built into the dock and recharge while your cargo is offloaded, or do a two way loaded both ways of 250 out and back and recharge at home base. Nice thing about loading docks, generally already have decent power feeds.
 
What about the bumper to bumper commuters trying to get home during the winter. Their usual one hour or one and a half hour commute can take twice as long and then some in typical winter weather. They will have to run heat and a large number of them will be on less than a full charge having already driven to work… what does their future look like?
 

Grumpy

Well-Known Member
No dog in this fight but I find it interesting that this guy was able to do the Cannonball run in an EV.

 

glhs837

Power with Control
What about the bumper to bumper commuters trying to get home during the winter. Their usual one hour or one and a half hour commute can take twice as long and then some in typical winter weather. They will have to run heat and a large number of them will be on less than a full charge having already driven to work… what does their future look like?

I think like 90% of commuters have a total commute distance of around 30 miles a day. Heater isn't a huge drain, and when you are stuck in traffic, you are not spending energy just turning over a motor. Given a base of 250 miles range, folks will be fine.
 
I think like 90% of commuters have a total commute distance of around 30 miles a day. Heater isn't a huge drain, and when you are stuck in traffic, you are not spending energy just turning over a motor. Given a base of 250 miles range, folks will be fine.
From Leonardtown to Waldorf is 35 miles one way. Your answer is as weak as your car battery :eyebrow:
 

TPD

the poor dad
Townhouses, rental houses, row houses, apartment dwellers - will all these be home chargers? As an owner of a rental house, I’m not sure I want to spend the money for a charger. Will city apartment owners spend the money to put a charging station at EVERY parking space? Can the current power grid at the average apartment building handle charging stations at every parking space with everyone charging simultaneously? Lots of questions.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
From Leonardtown to Waldorf is 35 miles one way. Your answer is as weak as your car battery :eyebrow:

Just what it is. And all my batteries are 12 volt. I don't own an EV yet, waiting for my cybertruck...

 
Just what it is. And all my batteries are 12 volt. I don't own an EV yet, waiting for my cybertruck...
:neener:
Your general statistics have zero to do with the actuality’s of our area. I have watched it winter after winter on our local TV news. Thousands of people commuting from SOMD to DC, Annapolis, Dahlgren, Indian Head, etc are rolling their eyes at you.
 

Blister

Well-Known Member
Just add thousands of car chargers when commuters come home on a warm summer evening. AC's cranked up, cooking dinner, doing laundry, etc. ,etc. The grid can't handle the load reliably now. "Cool Sentry" load shedding will become an every day event.



https://learn.pjm.com/three-priorities/keeping-the-lights-on/how-energy-use-varies


The amount of electricity being used – called load – is affected by many factors, but mostly by temperature and time of day.

In winter and spring, electricity usage starts increasing in the morning around 5 a.m. People begin getting ready for work and school and, on a cold morning, turn the heat up, turn on the hot water or turn on the coffee maker. Multiply these actions by the millions of people PJM serves, and you can see why winter and spring load curves – the patterns of the ups and downs of electricity use through the day – quickly spike in the morning.

load-curve-comparison.ashx

In the winter, usage typically declines between 8 a.m. and 5 p.m. once buildings have warmed up and outside temperatures begin to rise. The degree to which the load decreases during this time depends on how sunny it is. If it is very sunny, the solar heat helps keep homes and businesses warm with less need to run heating equipment. On the other hand, very cloudy days do not provide this ambient heating. At 5 p.m., when people are getting home, there is another spike in energy use as lights and appliances are turned on at multiple homes and outside temperatures decrease as the sun sets. Load starts dropping off again when people power down to go to bed for the night.

In the summer and fall, electricity use increases gradually through the daytime as outside temperatures increase. The load peaks between 5 and 6 p.m. as people start getting home. Load starts dropping off as the sun and temperature go down because air conditioners are not running as often.




https://smecocoolsentry.com/residential/how_coolsentry_works.php

How CoolSentry Works
See how SMECO CoolSentry works
Once you schedule an installation, Itron certified technicians will custom install a programmable thermostat inside your home. If you were a participant in the previous Load Management program, we will remove your old load management switches.
You will maintain control of your thermostat. But on selected summer afternoons when the temperature soars, SMECO CoolSentry will activate a "conservation event".
During these times, your thermostat will receive a wireless signal that will put your air conditioner compressor into a "conservation mode". This signal will coordinate your A/C or heat pump with others in the neighborhood to manage electricity use.
During the conservation event, your A/C compressor remains in conservation mode and is cycled at the level you choose when you enroll:
  • 50% Cycling means the compressor operates half the time it did prior to the conservation event.
  • 75% Cycling means the compressor operates 25% of the time it did prior to the conservation event.
Regardless of which level is chosen, the A/C fan operates continuously throughout the conservation event, circulating air throughout your home.
IF YOU ENROLLED IN SMECO COOLSENTRY BEFORE JANUARY 1, 2015, you have been participating at the 50% Cycling level. If you wish to upgrade to the 75% Cycling level and earn $75 in annual bill credits, click here to make the change online or call 866-921-9474 to speak with a CoolSentry customer service representative.
EmPOWER Maryland logo

EmPOWER Maryland programs are funded by a charge on your energy bill. EmPOWER programs can help you reduce your energy consumption and save you money. Learn more about EmPOWER and how you can participate.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
:neener:
Your general statistics have zero to do with the actuality’s of our area. I have watched it winter after winter on our local TV news. Thousands of people commuting from SOMD to DC, Annapolis, Dahlgren, Indian Head, etc are rolling their eyes at you.

But even at that, if you have 250 miles of range, getting back and forth to Dahlgren from St Inigoes is only 100 miles. Even if you are stuck in traffic with the heater, you should be fine. Although, if you have that commute, maybe go for a 300-350 mile range vehicle. To Alexandria, its 150, so for sure spring for the 350 mile range.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
Just add thousands of car chargers when commuters come home on a warm summer evening. AC's cranked up, cooking dinner, doing laundry, etc. ,etc. The grid can't handle the load reliably now. "Cool Sentry" load shedding will become an every day event.

And thats where smart charging comes in. You can (with a decent EV, anyway) schedule your charging session to not start until after peak. The grid does need to expand, and I'm in favor of adding battery storage to the grid to add depth. And this is where the govt backing off a bit on subsidies helps. Slow adoption a bit to give the grid and infrastructure time to keep up. Buy some time for the new generation of nuke plants of shake out and start construction. I think there are four or five serious players in that game right now, they, like any thinking person, see the reality that we cannot make it without new nukes.
 
But even at that, if you have 250 miles of range, getting back and forth to Dahlgren from St Inigoes is only 100 miles. Even if you are stuck in traffic with the heater, you should be fine. Although, if you have that commute, maybe go for a 300-350 mile range vehicle. To Alexandria, its 150, so for sure spring for the 350 mile range.
I have yet to own anything that uses rechargeable batteries where the battery life works as promised.
 

glhs837

Power with Control
Townhouses, rental houses, row houses, apartment dwellers - will all these be home chargers? As an owner of a rental house, I’m not sure I want to spend the money for a charger. Will city apartment owners spend the money to put a charging station at EVERY parking space? Can the current power grid at the average apartment building handle charging stations at every parking space with everyone charging simultaneously? Lots of questions.

Well, if my rental house were a bit more upscale, I might add one. Small cost to attract a different class of tenant. And like Starlink, urban settings are a challenge. Eventually what you'll see, I think is that parking meters become chargers as well. Apartments will offer what they can. Yep, there were lots of questions when the car started replacing horses also, but it happened one step at a time as the cost of cars dropped and the services to support them grew.



I have yet to own anything that uses rechargeable batteries where the battery life works as promised.

And thats why I recommend a 350 mile range vehicle if you have a 150 mile commute. Nice thing, that data is out there. The EV nuts are great data folks, being a huge collection of nerds.

 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Yep, there were lots of questions when the car started replacing horses also ....


I remember seeing this picture in a history book, some bloke with what looks like a 35 gal barrel on wheels with a hand pump, selling gas for .12 cents a gal in a city circa 1910 .... and how in 10 yrs there were 1000's of Gas Stations

in 1900 Gasoline was a waste product given away if you had the means to haul it

This is a great book on the pre interstate road system ...

American Road: The Story of an Epic Transcontinental Journey at the Dawn of the Motor Age
 

PeoplesElbow

Well-Known Member
Nobody is looking to the future..

How many have sat in line at a gas station at a rest area, or in a city? How long does it take to fuel a car? 5 minutes or less (not counting the nimrods that park at the pump while they go buy lunch)?

How frustrated did you get waiting 10 minutes, or 20?

Now lets take the best, Tesla, case scenario... Now it takes 30 minutes to refuel, 6 times the amount of time it takes to refuel an ICE car, from here the numbers increase MUCH more than six times.. so in that 30 minutes of time to recharge, the waiting to fuel line increases 6 times over.. so your wait time increases by 36... So you need to recharge, you get into a line that is now 6 times longer, to wait for each car that takes 6 times more time to recharge.. so your 10 minute wait is now 360 or even 720 minutes. ( it gets worse when you talk about the cars that take HOURS to recharge)

Of course, this is the easy math solution.. other things have to be factored. How many places will have 50 or more charging stations that have the capability of supercharging at all stations??

Your 6x longer line gets worse, a lot worse, when you consider how often people will have to recharge. I don't know of many cars not capable of 300 - 400 miles on a tank of gas.. and most of us stop at 50%, so generally speaking we stop every 200 - 250 miles. Well, most electric cars don't have near the range, most vary between 140 - 250 miles, and like gas cars they are NOT going to wait to get to empty before they stop to charge, I doubt any of them let their cars get close to 1/4 before stopping.. but if EV drivers maintain the same habits they'll start looking at 1/2 tank mark, or they'll be stopping every 70 - 125 miles. Stopping more often, makes that line mentioned above even longer (up to twice as long).. so what does your wait time become then??

Lastly.. where the hell is all this electricity coming from?? The cheapest power plants to build and operate are STILL COAL... dirty, nasty coal.. China has already caught on, and they are busy little bees building coal fired electric plants.. how is this helping the climate?
That's why I think plug in hybrids are superior. their battery packs are much smaller, using much less of a limited resource.
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
And thats where smart charging comes in. You can (with a decent EV, anyway) schedule your charging session to not start until after peak. The grid does need to expand, and I'm in favor of adding battery storage to the grid to add depth. And this is where the govt backing off a bit on subsidies helps. Slow adoption a bit to give the grid and infrastructure time to keep up. Buy some time for the new generation of nuke plants of shake out and start construction. I think there are four or five serious players in that game right now, they, like any thinking person, see the reality that we cannot make it without new nukes.
I'm curious about the millions or renters.. are landlords going to be expected to foot the bill for chargers??
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
I remember seeing this picture in a history book, some bloke with what looks like a 35 gal barrel on wheels with a hand pump, selling gas for .12 cents a gal in a city circa 1910 .... and how in 10 yrs there were 1000's of Gas Stations

in 1900 Gasoline was a waste product given away if you had the means to haul it

This is a great book on the pre interstate road system ...

American Road: The Story of an Epic Transcontinental Journey at the Dawn of the Motor Age
In 1899 and 1900, electric vehicles outsold all other types of cars. In fact, 28 percent of all 4,192 cars produced in the US in 1900 were electric.

Been there done that, and ICE won out then.. What do they say about HIstory??
 

glhs837

Power with Control
I'm curious about the millions or renters.. are landlords going to be expected to foot the bill for chargers??

Those that want to attract tenants that want that. Like AC and washers and driers, its simply another amenity. One that will increasingly be seen as a thing the better places have, I think. I know if I were marketing my house now, I would go ahead and add one. The house I live in, not my three bedroom one bath 1,000 square foot rental built in1956


In 1899 and 1900, electric vehicles outsold all other types of cars. In fact, 28 percent of all 4,192 cars produced in the US in 1900 were electric.

Been there done that, and ICE won out then.. What do they say about HIstory??

ICE won then because battery tech sucked. Right now, for most use cases, BEVs win. And that gap will grow as battery and vehicle cost and charge times go down and value for money gets even better. Right now when you run total cost of ownership numbers, BEVs win there.

What they say is that those who dont learn are doomed. Looking at the value, looks like Tesla are not repeating that.
 

itsbob

I bowl overhand
And thats where smart charging comes in. You can (with a decent EV, anyway) schedule your charging session to not start until after peak.
That works today. When we approach EVs being close to 30% let alone 50%.. the second you start charging THAT will become the peak.. as more EVs come online, that peak will move, and will be a higher peak than say a mid afternoon in August. So you, and everyone else, starts to charge at 1:30 am, because it's off peak and cheaper, and as more and more start to charge the KwH cost will increase accordingly and surpass the peak price you were trying to avoid.

Think brown outs are bad now, wait until you wake up in the morning to no power, and no car.
 
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