D.O.G.E

[22AcaciaAve]

I am very skeptical at what DOGE can really do. I get the idea, good thought. Reagan tried it in the 80's. How far it can go is questionable to me. Trump had a republican congress between 2016-2018 and failed to cut back government. In fact, he expanded government by the end of his presidency. He can only do so much by a direct order.

If DOGE want's to win me over, then Musk should cancel any further government subsidies, and pay back past government subsidies he got from his Tesla grants and his SpaceX grants. I might take him a bit more serious if he does that. He's a clown, and Ramaswamy is his court jester.

Ramaswamy's suggestion that you eliminate federal workers based on the last number of their SSN was about the most stupid suggestion I have ever heard. That would be like a football team eliminating players based on their numbers. Lamar Jackson, Mark Andrews....out of here! Good job guys.

There is certainly waste and bloat in the federal government. Find it and eliminate it. Try to do it more intelligently than Musk and Ramaswamy have suggested.

 

[glhs837]

I am very skeptical at what DOGE can really do. I get the idea, good thought. Reagan tried it in the 80's. How far it can go is questionable to me. Trump had a republican congress between 2016-2018 and failed to cut back government. In fact, he expanded government by the end of his presidency. He can only do so much by a direct order.

If DOGE want's to win me over, then Musk should cancel any further government subsidies, and pay back past government subsidies he got from his Tesla grants and his SpaceX grants. I might take him a bit more serious if he does that. He's a clown, and Ramaswamy is his court jester.

Ramaswamy's suggestion that you eliminate federal workers based on the last number of their SSN was about the most stupid suggestion I have ever heard. That would be like a football team eliminating players based on their numbers. Lamar Jackson, Mark Andrews....out of here! Good job guys.

There is certainly waste and bloat in the federal government. Find it and eliminate it. Try to do it more intelligently than Musk and Ramaswamy have suggested.

I know Tesla not only paid back the only grant they got for a bit over 460 million, but they paid it off early. And even if they hadn't, you could make the case that the amount of economic activity they fostered with that tiny loan was worth every penny. Tesla now has five factories here in the US. New York, Texas, Nevada, and CA. Two make cars, one makes solar and Superchargers, and another makes Battery Energy Storage Systems and the last makes batteries and drivetrain components. They are building yet another factory to manufacture the Semi. Oh, and a lithium processing plant also in Texas.

As for subsidies, I agree they should not be a thing. But they were, and they were initially available to everyone. Until you produced I think 200,000 cars. which cap Tesla hit and still kept selling cars. Musk argued against bringing them back in fact. And he wants to remove them again. As for paying back, are you going to insist that every maker who sold a car with a subsidy pay it back?

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www.energy.gov

As for SpaceX, no grants. They have taken 20 billion in govt money, but its all been contracts awarded for services rendered. And damn good service its been. They got 2.4 billion to develop the Crew Dragon and do a number of missions to take astronauts to the ISS. Boeing got 4.5 billion for the EXACT SAME JOB!!!!! And to date has delivered two people, and couldnt bring them home. While SpaceX not only did their original missions, they picked up Boeing slack be doing theirs as well.

I would make the case that every penny either company has gotten from the US taxpayers has benefitted us far out of proportion to that initial spend.

As for the Ramaswamy thing, it usually helps to look a bit deeper when something said by a guy smart enough to amass billions looks stupid.

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www.reuters.com

The clip shared on social media corresponds with Ramaswamy’s September interview, opens new tab with podcast host Lex Fridman from timestamp 27:06: “If your Social Security Number ends in an odd number, you're out. If it ends in an even number, you're in. There's a 50% cut right there. Of those who remain, if your Social Security Number starts in an even number, you're in. And if it starts with an odd number, you're out. Boom, that's a 75% reduction, then literally, sarcastically, okay.”

Immediately after the quote, Ramaswamy said: “It's a thought experiment, not a policy prescription.”

 

[vraiblonde]

I know Tesla not only paid back the only grant they got for a bit over 460 million, but they paid it off early. And even if they hadn't, you could make the case that the amount of economic activity they fostered with that tiny loan was worth every penny. Tesla now has five factories here in the US. New York, Texas, Nevada, and CA. Two make cars, one makes solar and Superchargers, and another makes Battery Energy Storage Systems and the last makes batteries and drivetrain components. They are building yet another factory to manufacture the Semi. Oh, and a lithium processing plant also in Texas.

As for subsidies, I agree they should not be a thing. But they were, and they were initially available to everyone. Until you produced I think 200,000 cars. which cap Tesla hit and still kept selling cars. Musk argued against bringing them back in fact. And he wants to remove them again. As for paying back, are you going to insist that every maker who sold a car with a subsidy pay it back?

Loading…

www.energy.gov

As for SpaceX, no grants. They have taken 20 billion in govt money, but its all been contracts awarded for services rendered. And damn good service its been. They got 2.4 billion to develop the Crew Dragon and do a number of missions to take astronauts to the ISS. Boeing got 4.5 billion for the EXACT SAME JOB!!!!! And to date has delivered two people, and couldnt bring them home. While SpaceX not only did their original missions, they picked up Boeing slack be doing theirs as well.

I would make the case that every penny either company has gotten from the US taxpayers has benefitted us far out of proportion to that initial spend.

As for the Ramaswamy thing, it usually helps to look a bit deeper when something said by a guy smart enough to amass billions looks stupid.

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www.reuters.com

I appreciate you having that information at hand. A lot of times people post stuff and I think, "Yeah, I don't think that's true," but I don't have the inclination to research and respond.



It's hard to believe people are bitching about cutting federal spending, and yet here we are.

 

[SamSpade]

I am very skeptical at what DOGE can really do. I get the idea, good thought. Reagan tried it in the 80's. How far it can go is questionable to me. Trump had a republican congress between 2016-2018 and failed to cut back government. In fact, he expanded government by the end of his presidency. He can only do so much by a direct order.

If DOGE want's to win me over, then Musk should cancel any further government subsidies, and pay back past government subsidies he got from his Tesla grants and his SpaceX grants. I might take him a bit more serious if he does that. He's a clown, and Ramaswamy is his court jester.

Ramaswamy's suggestion that you eliminate federal workers based on the last number of their SSN was about the most stupid suggestion I have ever heard. That would be like a football team eliminating players based on their numbers. Lamar Jackson, Mark Andrews....out of here! Good job guys.

There is certainly waste and bloat in the federal government. Find it and eliminate it. Try to do it more intelligently than Musk and Ramaswamy have suggested.

I’m not even thinking their idea of making continued employment more unpleasant will have ANY desirable effect on the workforce.

Job security has created a situation where longevity in the job is more true in federal employment than elsewhere. And it has a lot of consequences - or benefits. It does mean people who shouldn’t be there are secure in the likelihood they won’t be terminated - so they don’t work as hard. But it also means that those who do have grown very good at doing the niche work they DO.

A slash and burn would uproot the wheat AND the tares. For every lolligagger you eliminate, you’ll certainly erase someone really really good at doing it. And with years of experience - it would be expensive to replace.

The building solution baffles me. Buildings are empty (mostly not true) so let’s put all the people BACK in them. No. Repurpose the buildings or sell them. My agency has taken three agencies and put them into a previously overcrowded building. For a while we had staff with desks in hallways, under stairwells, placed in storage rooms, you name it. And then GSA added more. So they rebuilt the place during the COVID hiatus. All workstations - mostly - are shared, badged in locations. They need to be reserved in advance - you no longer have “your” desk. You bring your laptop and you take it home.

A building now houses twice the staff. The only “catch” - they are not all there at the same time. The two new agencies even have their own secure part of the building. But their old building is vacant and in the process of being eliminated. That’s the lie about vacancy. They’re going away.

To bring everyone in five days a week would require something we stopped doing years ago - waste money RENTING office space around town.

 

[vraiblonde]

Trump had a republican congress between 2016-2018 and failed to cut back government. In fact, he expanded government by the end of his presidency.

This is the sort of thing that irritates me. Trump didn't have a Republican Congress - he had a bunch of scumbags on the take who were actively and openly working against him. It's not like they tried to hide it, so not sure how you missed it.

As far as "expanded government"....gee....what was happening at the end of Trump's last presidency? It's right on the tip of my tongue....

It's completely unfair to blame that on Trump and it irks me when people do it.

If we want to criticize Trump for something, I'd start with how naive he was going into the 2016 election and his subsequent presidency. He had no idea what he was in for, no idea the depths of government corruption and how low they'd go to derail him and keep their con going. Not to mention the dishonesty of the media. I don't think any of us expected that level of hatred and outright double-dealing.

This is actually a tribute to Trump's character - he would never do something like that so it doesn't occur to him that someone else would. But that's not a good quality in a politician. I think this time around Trump's done a good job of knowing his enemy and also staying true to his personal morality.

 

[stgislander]

I’m not even thinking their idea of making continued employment more unpleasant will have ANY desirable effect on the workforce.

Job security has created a situation where longevity in the job is more true in federal employment than elsewhere. And it has a lot of consequences - or benefits. It does mean people who shouldn’t be there are secure in the likelihood they won’t be terminated - so they don’t work as hard. But it also means that those who do have grown very good at doing the niche work they DO.

A slash and burn would uproot the wheat AND the tares. For every lolligagger you eliminate, you’ll certainly erase someone really really good at doing it. And with years of experience - it would be expensive to replace.

The building solution baffles me. Buildings are empty (mostly not true) so let’s put all the people BACK in them. No. Repurpose the buildings or sell them. My agency has taken three agencies and put them into a previously overcrowded building. For a while we had staff with desks in hallways, under stairwells, placed in storage rooms, you name it. And then GSA added more. So they rebuilt the place during the COVID hiatus. All workstations - mostly - are shared, badged in locations. They need to be reserved in advance - you no longer have “your” desk. You bring your laptop and you take it home.

A building now houses twice the staff. The only “catch” - they are not all there at the same time. The two new agencies even have their own secure part of the building. But their old building is vacant and in the process of being eliminated. That’s the lie about vacancy. They’re going away.

To bring everyone in five days a week would require something we stopped doing years ago - waste money RENTING office space around town.

Somebody made the point about locality pay. Do you get paid extra to be physically working IN DC? If so, do you still get paid the same to be working from home in Martinsburg, WV?

 

[Clem72]

As for the Ramaswamy thing, it usually helps to look a bit deeper when something said by a guy smart enough to amass billions looks stupid.

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www.reuters.com

Weird that Reuters substituted "sarcastically", when he said "stochastically", perhaps purposefully. He did say it was a thought experiment in this old interview that predates DOGE. He also said the following, which doesn't claim it's a thought experiment. We shall see if he references it a third time, post DOGE.

On Day 1, *instantly* fire 50% of federal bureaucrats.

Here’s how: if your SSN ends in an odd number, you’re fired. That downsizes government by half.
Absolutely *nothing* will break as a result. It doesn’t violate civil service rules because mass layoffs are exempt.

SHUT IT DOWN.

This avoids civil service protections: no bureaucrat can claim their firings were politically motivated. Further firings can be executed with a chisel, but Step 1 needs to be an unrestrained chainsaw or else it just won’t happen.

x.com

x.com

 

[SamSpade]

If we want to criticize Trump for something, I'd start with how naive he was going into the 2016 election and his subsequent presidency. He had no idea what he was in for, no idea the depths of government corruption and how low they'd go to derail him and keep their con going. Not to mention the dishonesty of the media. I don't think any of us expected that level of hatred and outright double-dealing.

He made the mistake of thinking like a businessman, to put it simply. In business, ultimately, everyone is in it for profit - what do I get out of it?

In government, there really isn't a profit motive - so the dynamics change. In business, if you screw enough of your co-workers or business allies, you're going to go broke. When you come to the table to make a deal, it's assumed you want something that will benefit YOU. Successful businesses cannot always be predatory - they have to form alliances, make deals, get profit for their shareholders.

In government - as long as you can keep your elected office - you can backstab all you like. You can sink a bill just because you don't like someone. You've greased enough palms to get away with just about anything. If you have the support of the media - of the party - of the DOJ - of the intelligence community - you can't be touched.

Early on, Trump engaged with others in DC assuming that both sides could get what they wanted and be satisfied with the outcome. These guys would shoot themselves in the head if it meant they'd hurt you too.

His critics charge him with only wanting loyalty. Damned straight. If you knew your closest confidants would leak stuff just because they could - yeah, you're damned right.

 

[vraiblonde]

We shall see if he references it a third time, post DOGE.

That's all that counts, imo. We all say things casually that we wouldn't actually do if we were the boss.

 

[Chopticon64]

Somebody made the point about locality pay. Do you get paid extra to be physically working IN DC? If so, do you still get paid the same to be working from home in Martinsburg, WV?

Folks working in different regions get different rates, remember the meltdown in the tech sector when people at Meta were going to get lower pay if they worked in Nebraska? “But it’s the same job, should the same pay!”

Well the fed govt hasn’t paid that way for decades.

If you work in Southern California your rate is higher than St. Mary’s county. But a GS-13 in St. Mary’s at the base and one working at the state department in downtown DC get paid the same.

There are over 50 locality areas, all here with the rates:

General Schedule

Welcome to opm.gov

www.opm.gov

 

[Hijinx]

Harry Truman was appointed to stop the Military Industrial Complex from stealing us blind during WW2 and he did one heck of a job at it, I only hope DOGE is half as good.

 

[glhs837]

Weird that Reuters substituted "sarcastically", when he said "stochastically", perhaps purposefully. He did say it was a thought experiment in this old interview that predates DOGE. He also said the following, which doesn't claim it's a thought experiment. We shall see if he references it a third time, post DOGE.

x.com

x.com

Ah, so my link where he clearly states it was a thought experiment, not a policy was from a podcast interview two months ago.



Whereas the tweet where he didn't state that was from over a year ago. And I imagine folks not getting that was why he felt the need to clarify this year.

 

[22AcaciaAve]

I know Tesla not only paid back the only grant they got for a bit over 460 million, but they paid it off early. And even if they hadn't, you could make the case that the amount of economic activity they fostered with that tiny loan was worth every penny. Tesla now has five factories here in the US. New York, Texas, Nevada, and CA. Two make cars, one makes solar and Superchargers, and another makes Battery Energy Storage Systems and the last makes batteries and drivetrain components. They are building yet another factory to manufacture the Semi. Oh, and a lithium processing plant also in Texas.

As for subsidies, I agree they should not be a thing. But they were, and they were initially available to everyone. Until you produced I think 200,000 cars. which cap Tesla hit and still kept selling cars. Musk argued against bringing them back in fact. And he wants to remove them again. As for paying back, are you going to insist that every maker who sold a car with a subsidy pay it back?

Loading…

www.energy.gov

As for SpaceX, no grants. They have taken 20 billion in govt money, but its all been contracts awarded for services rendered. And damn good service its been. They got 2.4 billion to develop the Crew Dragon and do a number of missions to take astronauts to the ISS. Boeing got 4.5 billion for the EXACT SAME JOB!!!!! And to date has delivered two people, and couldnt bring them home. While SpaceX not only did their original missions, they picked up Boeing slack be doing theirs as well.

I would make the case that every penny either company has gotten from the US taxpayers has benefitted us far out of proportion to that initial spend.

As for the Ramaswamy thing, it usually helps to look a bit deeper when something said by a guy smart enough to amass billions looks stupid.

Loading…

www.reuters.com

Tesla paid back a loan. And yes, they did so early. Tesla is a liberal democrat idea. Battery operated cars with no real solution on how they can be powered unless liberal ideas of EV charging stations across the US can be assembled.

Elon Musk was granted numerous subsidies. I don't care if it was Tesla or SpaceX, give them back if you want to end them for everyone else. If you are in charge of recommendations to cut government funding, repay all of your subsidies. I don't really give a crap about what SpaceX has done. Musk has been put in charge of cutting government waste. The first thing he can do is cut any money going to his companies. He's a billionaire. He can survive on his own without government help. Put up or shut up.

 

[22AcaciaAve]

He made the mistake of thinking like a businessman, to put it simply. In business, ultimately, everyone is in it for profit - what do I get out of it?

In government, there really isn't a profit motive - so the dynamics change. In business, if you screw enough of your co-workers or business allies, you're going to go broke. When you come to the table to make a deal, it's assumed you want something that will benefit YOU. Successful businesses cannot always be predatory - they have to form alliances, make deals, get profit for their shareholders.

In government - as long as you can keep your elected office - you can backstab all you like. You can sink a bill just because you don't like someone. You've greased enough palms to get away with just about anything. If you have the support of the media - of the party - of the DOJ - of the intelligence community - you can't be touched.

Early on, Trump engaged with others in DC assuming that both sides could get what they wanted and be satisfied with the outcome. These guys would shoot themselves in the head if it meant they'd hurt you too.

His critics charge him with only wanting loyalty. Damned straight. If you knew your closest confidants would leak stuff just because they could - yeah, you're damned right.

You are correct. There is no profit dynamic in government. For a lot of years people kept saying we want a businessman in charge of government. Ross Perot tried and failed. I thought for a long time that was what is needed. I now tend to doubt that. There is too much difference between political issues and business issues for anyone from the business world to actually be successful.

 

[22AcaciaAve]

This is the sort of thing that irritates me. Trump didn't have a Republican Congress - he had a bunch of scumbags on the take who were actively and openly working against him. It's not like they tried to hide it, so not sure how you missed it.

As far as "expanded government"....gee....what was happening at the end of Trump's last presidency? It's right on the tip of my tongue....

It's completely unfair to blame that on Trump and it irks me when people do it.

If we want to criticize Trump for something, I'd start with how naive he was going into the 2016 election and his subsequent presidency. He had no idea what he was in for, no idea the depths of government corruption and how low they'd go to derail him and keep their con going. Not to mention the dishonesty of the media. I don't think any of us expected that level of hatred and outright double-dealing.

This is actually a tribute to Trump's character - he would never do something like that so it doesn't occur to him that someone else would. But that's not a good quality in a politician. I think this time around Trump's done a good job of knowing his enemy and also staying true to his personal morality.

So what do you think he has now? Have all of the scumbags left?

It amazes me how many people want the system to change, but yet they hold on to their boys. Democrats can't acknowledge how far they have drifted and why they lost an election to somebody like Trump. They live in denial. Trump supporters believe he will "DRAIN THE SWAMP" and change the country. He will drain the swamp, only to replace it with his own swamp rats.

I support more of Trump's policies than the democrat ones. The dems have moved so far to the left that it is hard to even get on board with anything they say. But I'm a conservative. Donald Trump is not a conservative. At best he is a populist. And he was a democrat for a long time.
Sorry, I don't do the chameleon thing where people change to save their own skin. They usually change to line their own pockets.

It would be nice if people would reject both parties going forward. Probably not going to happen in my life time. My opinion is that all politicians are basically the scumbags you mentioned. That includes Trump, Biden, and all of the rest of them. I have a hard time believing anyone would consider these people anything else. But that's my opinion. I'm sure everyone else has their own.

 

[vraiblonde]

So what do you think he has now? Have all of the scumbags left?

We'll find out, won't we?

 

[vraiblonde]

Donald Trump is not a conservative. At best he is a populist.

What do you mean by "at best"?

populist
a person, especially a politician, who strives to appeal to ordinary people who feel that their concerns are disregarded by established elite groups.

That's perfect. That's what it's supposed to be. As opposed to:

plutocracy
government by the wealthy.
a country or society governed by the wealthy.
an elite or ruling class of people whose power derives from their wealth.

I don't want Trump to be a conservative. He is so popular because he's *not* conservative - he's a populist. And most people don't even know what "conservative" means anyway. "Conservatives" will rail about government overreach in one breath, then bitch about legal same-sex marriage in the next.

It would be nice if people would reject both parties going forward. Probably not going to happen in my life time.

It's not going to happen ever. Like, ever. Humans like to group. If they disband a party they'll make another one to replace it.

Anyway, this new administration is dramatically different from Trump's first go-round, so we'll see if it makes a difference or not. Eeyores all "it'll never work " irk me.

 

[PeoplesElbow]

Joni Ernst makes some good points, but also can be exposed as an idiot on some points. I would like to see her voters break down things the way she did. She may be out of a job next election cycle.

1. Ghost writers, under used buildings. Really? The best utilization of Taxpayer funds is to make the federal work force permanent telework. Sell all of the under used buildings. But Ernst wants federal workers back in the office permanently. Terrible misuse of government money from someone who claims to be a conservative. She is in line with democratic mayors like DC's Murial Bowser. Sorry Joni, you failed this conservative test.

2. Audit the IRS. No problem with this. If IRS workers are gaming the system, audit them.

3. Undue Biden's boondoggles. Yeah, agree with this.

4. California trains. Yeah agree. California needs to pay for this. Not Fed taxpayers.

5. Christmas in September. Absolutely agree with this. Contractors make sure they make their money load by the end of the fiscal year. Even if that means having people work OT for no reason.

6. End welfare for politicians. The best thing that can be done is limiting all political runs to a set amount of money. Nobody should be able to buy their way to office. Maybe she should have spoke up earlier. I know why she did not. It won't happen.

7. Bad pennies. That's coming. Everyone knows it. She's no brilliant scholar to suggest this. It's a good idea to drop pennies and even nickels. Problem is that every business will round up, so every consumer will pay more. And people like Joni won't lift a finger to help.

8. Trillion dollar slush fund. I'm good with auditing this. Covid money has been abused. It should be audited

9. Bogus bonuses. Really don't know about this. If true, absolutely should be investigated.

10. Silly Science. This has been something that has been around forever. Should be investigated.

11. Unemployment for millionaire's. This should be done. Millionaire's should not get any federal benefits.

12. Government swag. I get it. Everyone does it. I wonder what swag she handed out when running for office. Limit the money available to any politician. Stop allowing people with tons of money to game the system. She won't vote for that because she uses it too.

13. Head in the clouds. Changing government licenses may be a little more tricky than she understands. It's an idea that should be explored, but by someone who has a bit more intelligence than Joni.

14. China's mad scientists. No problem investigating this. I don't know how much of it is real or not, but go ahead and roll with it.

15. UN overpayments. Good with this as well. The UN sucks. We should disassociate with them.

16. Defense spending. I'm sure there is bloat there, but the country will never cut defense spending, nor should they. We need to maintain military superiority. There are too many enemies that would love to attack us. Destroy them before they destroy us.

#1. Micromanaging type hate telework, they would rather someone accomplish less while they can direct their every action. When I need to get something done I take my computer and head home, Im in the office almost exclusively, but have to get away to get long complex tasks done.

#5. End of fiscal year money exists because that is the only way government has to track things, it became so complicated they decided to compartmentalize things, where they made it wasteful is when some bean counter sees that "last year you only spent $100k instead of the $200k allotted, this year you only need $100k" so departments buy all sorts of useless crap to spend it. Can't tell you how many smart boards still in boxes or on the wall that have never been used I've seen.

#11. This has to be a tiny drop in the bucket, way bigger fish to fry

#12. Not sure about other places but mine use to give out shirts that didn't fit people instead of giving them money, they haven't been allowed to give out "swag" in years.

#13. Disaster waiting to happen

#15. Lets tell the UN to go over somewhere in the EU and let them support them

#16. It is actually one of the few things the government is supposed to do, the Navy is pretty good with their money, maybe the Airforce should be looked at ....

 

[PeoplesElbow]

Somebody made the point about locality pay. Do you get paid extra to be physically working IN DC? If so, do you still get paid the same to be working from home in Martinsburg, WV?

The locality area is the same so yes, what you are thinking about is "remote work" vs telework. I know someone on remote work from Florida, they get the locality pay from Florida.

If you are teleworking you are supposed to be able to come into the office within a reasonable amount of time, ie a couple hours.

Where some messed up is allowed folks to "telework" and move out of the area, I know quite a few engineers that moved "back home" and still work the same job.

 

[Bobwhite]

The days of the penny are over. It costs more to administer them than they're worth.

I'd like to see all change go away.