Did Judas Believe That Jesus Was The Christ?

[Penn]

No scripture here, just observations from what I have read in the Bible,and other theological writings, movies, etc.

It seems that Judas MAY have had a vision of who Jesus Christ was, by following Him, listening to Him, and bearing witness to Jesus's Miracles - healing the sick and the poor. Also, how he affected crowds of thousands, such as the "Sermon on The Mount."

On the dark side of the story, Judas was paid 30 - 40 pieces of silver(or gold?) to turn Jesus in to the Pharisees, so they would interrogate Him, and in due process, the priests would find Him guilty of Blasphemy, and force Him to be crucified.

I have read another side to this story, where Judas truly did believe in Jesus's Ministry, that he felt that Jesus had to be the proven Messiah - to all the people in Israel - so that He could fulfill His destiny for all mankind. But he felt(Judas) the only way this could be accomplished was to "force Jesus's hand", and make Jesus proclaim - once and for all - who He was, in front of the Pharisees, so that they would acknowledge Him, and be forced to accept Him as the Messiah.

 

[Nucklesack]

No scripture here, just observations from what I have read in the Bible,and other theological writings, movies, etc.

It seems that Judas MAY have had a vision of who Jesus Christ was, by following Him, listening to Him, and bearing witness to Jesus's Miracles - healing the sick and the poor. Also, how he affected crowds of thousands, such as the "Sermon on The Mount."

On the dark side of the story, Judas was paid 30 - 40 pieces of silver(or gold?) to turn Jesus in to the Pharisees, so they would interrogate Him, and in due process, the priests would find Him guilty of Blasphemy, and force Him to be crucified.

I have read another side to this story, where Judas truly did believe in Jesus's Ministry, that he felt that Jesus had to be the proven Messiah - to all the people in Israel - so that He could fulfill His destiny for all mankind. But he felt(Judas) the only way this could be accomplished was to "force Jesus's hand", and make Jesus proclaim - once and for all - who He was, in front of the Pharisees, so that they would acknowledge Him, and be forced to accept Him as the Messiah.

Have you read the Lost (Gnostic) Gospel of Judas? Supposedly he (Judas) didnt betray Jesus, he was doing Jesus' bidding

 

[Penn]

Have you read the Lost (Gnostic) Gospel of Judas? Supposedly he (Judas) didnt betray Jesus, he was doing Jesus' bidding

I saw a program, either on National Geographic or maybe the History channel that adressed this. I came away unsure of it all. Now, Jesus did know there was a betrayer amongst His 12 Disciples, because He made that very clear at the Last Supper event.

Did Jesus "make a deal with Judas"? That part, I'm not so sure of. Also, if you read the Bible, you'll find that Judas went out into a remote field
and committed suicide, as soon he got word of Jesus' fate.

I'm wondering why he would do that, if the main reason he turned Jusus in to the Pharisees was solely to cause Jesus' harm and death? One would think Judas might have felt that his mission was accomplished, as the result of his betrayal.......

 

[Dondi]

Well, it seems to me that when Judas return the 30 pieces of silver to the chief priests, he was convinced that Jesus was innocent:

"Then Judas, which had betrayed him, when he saw that he was condemned, repented himself, and brought again the thirty pieces of silver to the chief priests and elders,

Saying, I have sinned in that I have betrayed the innocent blood. And they said, What is that to us? see thou to that.

And he cast down the pieces of silver in the temple, and departed, and went and hanged himself." - Matthew 27:3-5

This then begs the question, innocent of what? Innocent of being the Messiah? Innocent of the charges of blasphemy of which Jesus was accused? Innocent of who He said He was?

What a profound admission.

 

[Toxick]

Did Jesus "make a deal with Judas"? That part, I'm not so sure of. Also, if you read the Bible, you'll find that Judas went out into a remote field and committed suicide, as soon he got word of Jesus' fate.

I'm wondering why he would do that, if the main reason he turned Jusus in to the Pharisees was solely to cause Jesus' harm and death? One would think Judas might have felt that his mission was accomplished, as the result of his betrayal.......

Even if his 'betrayal' was done at Jesus's own bidding, he may still have felt a tremendous amount of guilt, and got swallowed into a profound and ultimately suicidal depression.

For instance, If one of my parents or my wife or a close frield insisted that I pull the plug if they're ever in a vegetative state, and it comes to that, I would honor their wishes, but I have the feeling that afterwards I will hate myself for it even though its what they wanted. I certainly wouldn't walk away telling myself, "It's what they wanted! I'm such a good person!" I would walk away wanting to shoot myself in the face.


And if the betrayal was an actual betrayal done out of spite, malice or simple greed... well, we all do stupid things we wish we hadn't done later. Some worse than others. You can't take back a death, and I can see how someone would spiral into a suicidal depression from regret over selling a friend out to their own death.

 

[godsbutterfly]

When Jesus went off alone to pray one of the times he prayed for his disciples and said he had kept them all safe "except for the one born for this purpose". I believe that refers to Judas and that Judas did feel enough remorse that it led him to the regret and suicide.

 

[Penn]

Great replies, Thank You!

In one of the Gospels, it is mentioned that Jesus told Judas "Go and do what you must do." I believe it was during the Last Supper, where Jesus told the Disciples "Verily I say unto you, one of you will betray me."

It is also mentioned it was at that point when Satan entered into Judas spirit/soul, and he went and did his deed.

So, Satan had a hand in it?

 

[ItalianScallion]

Have you read the Lost (Gnostic) Gospel of Judas? Supposedly he (Judas) didnt betray Jesus, he was doing Jesus' bidding

This is why that book didn't make it into the Canon of the Bible. Thinking that Judas was a good guy is like saying that we should all rob banks so that they will toughen up on their security. Judas was chosen out of God's foreknowledge to do the evil deed.

It is also mentioned it was at that point when Satan entered into Judas spirit/soul, and he went and did his deed. So, Satan had a hand in it?

I think Judas knew who Jesus was even though he was still "lost" (unsaved) (not one of the elect). Peter confesses that Jesus is the Christ and I'm sure the 12 spoke about it. Jesus made it clear that Judas was "a devil" (John 6 v 70).
Plus, a believer cannot be possessed by a demon so we know that he wasn't a believer. Yes, he later regretted his actions but nothing in the Bible makes any inferrences that he made it to heaven.

 

[Nucklesack]

I saw a program, either on National Geographic or maybe the History channel that adressed this. I came away unsure of it all. Now, Jesus did know there was a betrayer amongst His 12 Disciples, because He made that very clear at the Last Supper event.

Did Jesus "make a deal with Judas"? That part, I'm not so sure of. Also, if you read the Bible, you'll find that Judas went out into a remote field
and committed suicide, as soon he got word of Jesus' fate.

I'm wondering why he would do that, if the main reason he turned Jusus in to the Pharisees was solely to cause Jesus' harm and death? One would think Judas might have felt that his mission was accomplished, as the result of his betrayal.......

On the flipside, if Judas betrayed Jesus why would he do it if he believed he was the Messiah?

 

[Marie]

On the flip side, if Judas betrayed Jesus why would he do it if he believed he was the Messiah?

Hostility, thinking he was getting a warrior/liberator Messiah, rather than a suffering servant which would have been detestable, as the zealots were looking to be free of Rome. On the other hand Jesus and his apostles were an easy mark and a cash cow. Being the keeper of the bag was a sweet deal for him, also Satan came over him, he was already a man of corrupt morals, God just used this to fulfill His purpose. much like Pharaoh.

 

[Nucklesack]

Hostility, thinking he was getting a warrior/liberator Messiah, rather than a suffering servant which would have been detestable, as the zealots were looking to be free of Rome. On the other hand Jesus and his apostles were an easy mark and a cash cow. Being the keeper of the bag was a sweet deal for him, also Satan came over him, he was already a man of corrupt morals, God just used this to fulfill His purpose. much like Pharaoh.

Lets ignore for a moment why he would be expecting a warrior/liberator Messiah (since you still havent answered what was fullfilled by Jesus), what justification do you have that Judas beleived Jesus was the Messiah and not another man?

 

[Marie]

Lets ignore for a moment why he would be expecting a warrior/liberator Messiah (since you still haven't answered what was fulfilled by Jesus), what justification do you have that Judas believed Jesus was the Messiah and not another man?

Hey,
I don't have time to answer your other question I thought I did and it wasn't sufficient so I am not really sure what your after. I need to get this sermon done for school.

As to Judas, Biblically I have nothing its from reading of scholars that suggest that Judas was looking for prestige and power in Jesus kingdom, when it became clear Christ wasn't taking it by force (A literal Kingdom at that time) he decided to cash out.


Judas is often identified as a Zealot, an attribute held by only one other disciple, Simon the Zealot. We know that Judas was probably a Zealot by his surname, Iscariot. Researchers believe this is a form of the title sicarii, meaning "dagger-men," a group of ultra-Zealots who carried a knife with them at all times to be prepared to assassinate traitors and capitulators. In English, we could call him Judas the Daggerman.

Though motivated primarily by socio-economic and political factors, the Zealots also had prophetic ideas driving them. They believed that if they turned Israel back to God and incited war against the Romans, the Messiah would arise to lead them and establish His Kingdom. This "understanding"resulted from misinterpreting many prophecies concerning Christ's teachings. In short, the Zealots ignored many of the prophecies regarding His first coming and completely mis-timed those about the second.

 

[camily]

On the flipside, if Judas betrayed Jesus why would he do it if he believed he was the Messiah?

Don't many of us deny/betray Jesus on a daily basis by sinning even though we know he is the Messiah? Sad, but true.

 

[Marie]

Are you ready for this?

Anyone ever read Oliver B Greene's Bible Prophecy?

Oliver Greene, said that he believes Judas was the devil incarnate and will be the Antichrist. Pages 231-234

Oliver B. Greene in BIBLE PROPHECY goes to great length to expound his doctrine of the Anti-Christ and finally comes up with his identification when he says: …..insofar as I am personally concerned I believe that Judas Iscariot was the devil incarnate and that he will return to this earth as the Antichrist, the Man of Sin, ‘son of perdition’! He will not be called ‘Judas’ but will be called by some or all of the many names given to him in Scripture. p.233,234
Attached is his reasoning

 

[Marie]

A.W. Pink has the same idea.


THE ANTICHRIST WILL BE JUDAS REINCARNATED

 

[ItalianScallion]

A.W. Pink has the same idea.


THE ANTICHRIST WILL BE JUDAS REINCARNATED

Careful, careful! There is no reincarnation and the devil does not have the power to bring the dead back to life; only God can do this....

 

[Zguy28]

Anyone ever read Oliver B Greene's Bible Prophecy?

Oliver Greene, said that he believes Judas was the devil incarnate and will be the Antichrist. Pages 231-234

Oliver B. Greene in BIBLE PROPHECY goes to great length to expound his doctrine of the Anti-Christ and finally comes up with his identification when he says: …..insofar as I am personally concerned I believe that Judas Iscariot was the devil incarnate and that he will return to this earth as the Antichrist, the Man of Sin, ‘son of perdition’! He will not be called ‘Judas’ but will be called by some or all of the many names given to him in Scripture. p.233,234
Attached is his reasoning

Just glancing through that doc, I have to disagree. Just as John the Baptist was the "spirit of Elijah", the Son of Perdition could come in the spirit of Judas so to speak in that he is a deceiver.

Luke 22:3 says "Then Satan entered into Judas called Iscariot, who was of the number of the twelve."

How can Satan enter Satan?

 

[Marie]

I didn't say I buy it, I never even entertained who, till I read that the other day, as its not for me to know and its foolish to speculate, but it is some interesting reasons why he believes it.
He made an interesting case for it, now the big question is did he come up with it on his own or was he influenced by Pink?
Gods ordaining the Antichrist and the end to come just as he said it will happen, so he could give Satan the power.
Scripture does say that it will be someone that was before and is to come.
Also with the satanic trinity with the beast and the false prophet being like a copy cat of the real trinity.
Jesus is God incarnate (in Flesh) so I don't see it being a stretch for Satan. Also we see angels in the old testament that appear as men. The two witness are believed to have been here before.
Actually they both say incarnate, not Reincarnate so that was a slip on my part. I understand the concern of the poor choice of words.

 

[Penn]

As to Judas, Biblically I have nothing its from reading of scholars that suggest that Judas was looking for prestige and power in Jesus kingdom, when it became clear Christ wasn't taking it by force (A literal Kingdom at that time) he decided to cash out.

Judas is often identified as a Zealot, an attribute held by only one other disciple, Simon the Zealot. We know that Judas was probably a Zealot by his surname, Iscariot. Researchers believe this is a form of the title sicarii, meaning "dagger-men," a group of ultra-Zealots who carried a knife with them at all times to be prepared to assassinate traitors and capitulators. In English, we could call him Judas the Daggerman.

Though motivated primarily by socio-economic and political factors, the Zealots also had prophetic ideas driving them. They believed that if they turned Israel back to God and incited war against the Romans, the Messiah would arise to lead them and establish His Kingdom. This "understanding"resulted from misinterpreting many prophecies concerning Christ's teachings. In short, the Zealots ignored many of the prophecies regarding His first coming and completely mis-timed those about the second.

I like Marie's rationale on this issue.

I think it explains a lot, where Judas was coming from. He was, or seemed to be, part of the Zealot movement, and wanted very much for the Romans to be forced out of Israel. If Judas had in fact, made the realisation who Jesus was, and recognised the power that Jesus held, then it would seem that surely Judas would have tried to force the issue.

 

[Nucklesack]

Judas had to have the blessing of Jesus, otherwise how would he (Jesus) die for our sins? Judas was only following the plan set out, he was even told to hurry and commit his act. He was chosen to betray Jesus, in order to have Him crucified, to take away the sins of the world.

If thats betrayal, then Judas wasnt alone. Peter, the spiritual leader of the early Christian movement, is portrayed as a coward with two failed opportunities to save himself after his initial self-incriminating betrayal. When asked if he was associated with Jesus, we are told that three times he said, "No!" And, then, rather than speak on Jesus' behalf, help him bare the burden of his cross, or even to witness his crucifixion, he chose to hide.

But Peter wasnt alone, when Jesus was tried, and convicted, all of the disciples denied Him. Yes, Judus was given thirty pieces of silver for what he did. But when he was found hanging from a tree, where were the thirty pieces of silver?

You should be asking why God would set Judus up to fulfill what had to be done, then condemn him to die and be separated from God forever? Some think its for the betrayal, but what he did was no worse than all the other disciples, and they recieved forgiveness.