Discipline

[Teddy Bear]

Guesswho,
I hope you are right--that your children will never act like that in public--but most of us parents have learned not to say 'never.'  Even the most disciplined children sometimes surprise their parents with an outburst of bad behavior.  Setting limits and being firm and consistent go a long way with children, but if they find out they can get away with something under different circumstances (out in public, in front of grandma, etc.), they will try it!  
Parents of youngsters:  please know that sometimes the look you are getting from parents of older children is one of respect.  I would much rather see a parent discipline a child in public than to see a child get away with poor behavior, because the parent is afraid of what others will think.

 

[Sharon]

Teddy Bear on 2:54 pm on Feb. 11, 2002[br] I would much rather see a parent discipline a child in public than to see a child get away with poor behavior, because the parent is afraid of what others will think.

Me too!   I think some parents are afraid to discipline because they think their kids won't like them anymore, parents who think it will hurt their kids feelings, parents who try to bribe their kid into good behavior.  I've seen it all and it just doesn't work.

Guesswho, if you think your kids are always going to behave because "they will know better" you are in for a rude awakening one day.  All kids misbehave.  Some of the best behaved kids at home are at their worse when their parents aren't around, simply because they can get away with it--some of the unruliest kids at home are "good as gold" in other places.

 

[Guesswho3256]

I never said I wouldn't discipline a child in public.  Nor did I say that disciplining them was wrong.  Theres a big difference in spanking and disciplining.  

And I didn't say that they wouldn't misbehave.  Misbehaving and acting like you've OD'd on speed are different as well.  

Thanks for explaining your side guys.  (And listening to mine)

 

[Sharon]

guesswho3256 on 2:10 pm on Feb. 11, 2002[br] BUT, if they were mine, they also wouldn't have been acting like fools in public.  They would know better.

Maybe I misunderstood what you meant by misbehaving and how "they would know" better.

Theres a big difference in spanking and disciplining.

I'll bite...what is it?

Misbehaving and acting like you've OD'd on speed are different as well.  Both of those boys would've been spanked had they been mine,

 
If they're not misbehaving, why spank them.

Now I'm really

   

 

[vraiblonde]

Guesswho, I'm going to pick on you for a minute (but it's meant with humor rather than malice).

It's always so much easier to be a parent when you have no kids.  Your ficticious children would NEVER act like idiots in the store.  Will NEVER have diaper blowout while you're in the bank.  Will NEVER pitch a fit over a candy bar at the 7-11.  Will NEVER pick their nose in front of people.  Will NEVER fist fight with their siblings.  They'll just know better.



Anyway, I sympathize with people who happen to be standing around when one of my kids gets in trouble in public because I know how much I hate listening to other people fuss at their kids.  But what I hate more is listening some overindulgent woman trying to reason with a screaming two year old.  Running around acting like fools calls for a dressing down or smack - full-fledged fit means the shopping trip is over.

 

[Christy]

I my gosh, guess makes me think of my "days of blissful ignorance" when it came to kids.  Before I had kids I would look at parents in disgust when they were dragging their screaming children out of a store by their ear.  I was certain my children would never ever be such horrible monsters, and I of course would never embarrass and humiliate my kids in front of the world.  Boy did I (like all other mothers) got a rude awakening.  From the day my children came into this world kicking and screaming they've never ceased to surprise me with inapropriate behavior at the most inapropriate times!  Temper tantrums and screaming fits need to be nipped in the bud instantly, or it progressively gets worse.  Kids most definitely aren't stupid.  They take full advantage of a situation if they are able.  I personally have never spanked my kids in public (that I can remember), I opt for covert pain (like pulling up on the hair right on the back of their neck as they march on their tippy toes to the door). Once we make it to the car my full wrath is unleashed.  

I don't see anything wrong with spanking your kid in public though.   So that was the vote I cast.

 

[PmoneyandTT]

Well since Im a parent - Im speaking from experience.  I will spank my children or disipline them whereever.  I don't care what anyone thinks - while I am doing so.  Give me some money to take care of them - and you have some say so. But if not - shut up and mind your business.  I find if you allow your child to be buckwild at home - chances are they will act the same out in public.  Children have to be taught boundries.  Some you never have to spank - others you do.

When I see a parent spanking their child out in public - my reaction usually is they probably was doing something they had no business.  I just walk on by.

what I find embarrassing in public - when a parent is cussing out the child or cussing out another adult - that shows immaturity - and lack of self respect.

 

[vraiblonde]

I tend to be a big buttinski about how other people treat their kids in public.  I don't like verbal abuse or rough treatment.  To me there's a big difference between giving your kid a whack on the butt and belting them in the mouth or cussing them out at the top of your lungs.  I actually got into a fight with a guy in the K-Mart parking lot because he grabbed his little girl and twisted her arm behind her back.  Couldn't help it.  But there was a cop right behind me so he took over before it got more physical than me shoving the guy.

I've also been know to tell people to shut up and quit talking like trash to a little kid.  But I still like to see someone give their unruly monster a disciplinary whack on the butt.  Parenting is one thing - bullies are another.  My kids are older so I can't remember the last time I whacked one of them - they have to stand in the corner as punishment.  Embarrasses them into good behavior.

 

[PmoneyandTT]

I have to say you got guts vrai.. Thank God I have never seen a parent abuse a child in public or known anyone to abuse their children behind closed doors.

I can count how many times I have spanked my children in their lifetime.
I disiplined them from the time they started crawling - so I haven't had
any big problems at all.  Now as they get older - that mouth is becoming
a problem - but I do not stand for back talk either.. Mommy doesn't play - as they put it.

Overall - there is a time and a place for everything.. Use your common sense wisely.. And maybe if your child is really out of control - maybe the parent
should look at themselves.. They got the genes from somewhere..

 

[CCsugarcane]

I'm a mom of a 2 and 3 year old and I have spaken both of them in public when needed.  I don't care at those who think I'm a terrible mom because while they are looking down on me there child is off stealling or throwing a fit cause they know they can.  I won't let my child run all over me at home or in public.  I remember back in the day if I misbehaved people never thought twice to spank in public especially my parents.  I do at times take measures to take my child to a private area when we are out eating so not to disturb everyone else when they cry.  I don't just use spanking, spanking is a last resort when all other attempts to dicipline my children have failed.  The Good Lords book says spare the rod spoil the child.

 

[grizmonkey]

vrai, good for you for standing up to the child abuser.  I have two adorable little boys.  I have never, and will never spank my children.  Yes, my four year old is a little hyper and gets carried away in public at times.  But they are kids, that's what they do.  

My dad spanked me and my brothers, sometimes with a bare hand, other times with a belt.  I cried because it hurt like hell.  Sure, I learned my lesson and did not repeat whatever heinous action I committed to warrant the spanking.  But, now a parent, I think of what it felt like when I got spanked.  So far, my kids have never done anything so bad that I think they should be hit for.

 

[wyldanjel]

grizmonkey on 9:19 am on Feb. 13, 2002Yes, my four year old is a little hyper and gets carried away in public at times.  But they are kids, that's what they do.  

Sure, I learned my lesson and did not repeat whatever heinous action I committed to warrant the spanking. So far, my kids have never done anything so bad that I think they should be hit for.

Spanking is only the answer as a last choice and I won't do it in public either!  And I can't stand to hear ppl in public yelling and berating their kids.  But hey most ppl are just the products of the upbringing and how they were treated as children is how they treat their children.  Even though you learned your lesson you aren't following in your parents footsteps.  My children,  I have an 8 year old and a 1 yr old are well behaved in public.  Because I have taught my 8 yr old that if she behaves while we were out then she will get a treat and I don't mean I'll buy her something I mean we'll spend some extra alone time together like leave her sister with daddy and we'll take an extra long bike ride or we'll read after bedtime for a while or something she wants to do like play a game.  I was spanked once in my life and that was when my brother and I drew on our new chest of drawers with crayon.  But suffice to say that this is a different world today.  In the 70's when I grew up it was enough to know that you would be in major trouble when you got home if you screwed up.  But also we knew that if we behaved we would usually get to do something we wanted.  Which around here there just isn't enough free-time activities to keep the children happy without paying an arm and a leg or driving at least an hour to get somewhere.  While I was growing up we knew that if we behaved during the week Friday nights we could go to the movies( which in that town it still only costs $2.00).  And on Saturday's we would either go bowling( in a real bowling alley not the joke of one we have here) or go to the roller rink.  But in those days we could be dropped off where ever we were and no one worried about us.  Because 9 times out of 10 we knew 99% of the people.  I just personally think that kids are over whelmed with all the toys and things they have today or they sit and get bored playing video games every day that they don't use up the energy they should so when you do take them out they are in hyperactive mode.

 

[CCsugarcane]

Everyone has the right to raise their child the way they feel fit.  There is such thing as abuse and I was abused by my father growing up.  However on that not I don't scare away from spanking my children.  I feel there is a fine line between abuse and discipline.  I refuse to cross that line by remaining cool and using spanking when I feel necessary not when others feel necessary or unncessarry.  Your child reflects you and how you raise them.  

I don't curse period, weather my children are around me or not and I hate when I go into local establishments and people are using curse words freely.  My children are well behaved however at their ages right now they are going to try their limits with me.  I'm a single mother and yes I do get stress sometimes but I won't take that out on my children.  I love my children and the Lord has blessed me with their lives.  

I however can't stand to see people just wacking their kids in the head or cursing at them.  These are little souls and we need to help these souls grow into responsible adults.  I will not however be one of those parents on a talk show saying my child is misbehaving and I've lost control.  I will never lose control over my children cause I won't let it get out of hand.  Those parents on talk shows have allowed there children walk all over them since they can remember and now they want someone else to straighten their kids out.  

God did not put us on this earth to judge other we will be judged when we meet him at the gates to heaven until then we have to pray for those parents who have either lost control over their children or whom are taking spanking and dicipline to far.  I do believe in reporting abuse, but I also believe in parents diciplining a child in public.  God Bless

 

[vraiblonde]

I have to admire Christy's "covert pain" tactic.  There's a spot of skin right beneath the arm, near the armpit, that you put the slightest pressure on and it's like a magic button - instant complaince.  Don't squeeze, though, because it REALLY hurts (pinch yourself there to see what I mean).  The idea is to cause discomfort and get their attenion, not injure them.  My grandmother used to get us on the backs of our legs with a flyswatter - enough pain to get her point across but not abusive.

I don't like to cause a scene in public (unless I'm attacking some mean Dad ) so I typically put on the dreaded low-pitched "Mommy voice", along with the menacing glare.  Why ruin someone else's dinner because your kid won't behave?

 

[wyldanjel]

vraiblonde on 11:31 am on Feb. 13, 2002[br]I have to admire Christy's "covert pain" tactic.  There's a spot of skin right beneath the arm, near the armpit, that you put the slightest pressure on and it's like a magic button - instant complaince.  Don't squeeze, though, because it REALLY hurts (pinch yourself there to see what I mean).  The idea is to cause discomfort and get their attenion, not injure them.  So I typically put on the dreaded low-pitched "Mommy voice", along with the menacing glare.  Why ruin someone else's dinner because your kid won't behave?

Hey cool... That should work if I ever need it.... I usually just put my hand on the back of her neck and lean down to whisper in her ear... something like you need to straighten up if ya wanna do this or that.  I don't squueze her neck or anything just kind give her a nudge in my direction lol.  And when I do this she knows it's her first and final warning.  And if she's out of arms reach then the glare works.  

 

[Ken King]

I don’t see it as there being a fine line as was suggested but rather a well-defined line.  Under Maryland law the term abuse means - the physical or mental injury of a child by any parent or other person who has permanent or temporary care or custody or responsibility for supervision of a child, or by any household or family member, under circumstances that indicate that the child's health or welfare is harmed or at substantial risk of being harmed.  

Discipline, to me, is a tool used by parents to obtain the desired behavior from their children and under the law the parent is allowed to administer reasonable punishment, including reasonable corporal punishment, in light of the age and condition of the child as part of that discipline.
So as long as your desire isn’t to injure your child (either physically or mentally) but to correct a behavioral issue almost any form of punishment (chastising, grounding, removal of privileges, and spanking) could fall within the parental prerogative.  

A question that comes up for me now is what is reasonable.  The following are corporal punishments that I consider reasonable; a baby (birth to two) should not be struck, a toddler (2 to 5) should never get more then a light swat with an open hand to their butt, a kid (5 to 12) might need a little more energetic spanking and at times more then just one, teenagers (12 to 18) are when it gets a little rougher, at least for me, as they no longer are as easily convinced to correct a behavior trait with the simple spanking.  What can you do with them?  Well, I smacked my daughter across the face when she was 17, my ex-wife called the police when she found out and when interviewed by the officer he asked why I didn’t smack her on the ass, to which I replied, “it wasn’t her a$$
that offended me, it was her mouth” and I told him what she had said to me.  He agreed that this too was reasonable.  In my mind as long as it is an open hand doing the punishing the chances are that you aren’t going to injure the child, though I have heard about shaken baby syndrome and if an injury results from discipline I believe that the person doing the punishing should be held accountable for their actions.  Use of a fist or another device to inflict the punishment is outside of the protected domain we parents enjoy.  I think if you can develop a mentality to use only the minimal amount of discipline as is necessary to achieve your results you should be able to look yourself in the mirror and know that you are doing okay.  

 

[karaalexis79]

Open hands can inflict injury too.  I know from experience.  I spank my daughter when she is misbehaving, but smacking on the bottom or legs to get a point across and slapping in the face are two different things.  I don't think you should ever hit a child in the face (or anybody for that matter).

Kara~

 

[CCsugarcane]

To say that a child at the age of 2 should not be spanked is a matter of preference.  My intentions are never to hurt my child.  Even at the young age of 1 1/2 I'm sure I've spaked my kids hands so they wouldn't touch a hot stove or something else that may harm them.  After spanking my children I do sit them down and explain why they got spanked but I'm dealing with a 2 and a 3 year old in which a glare won't work and I don't believe in idol threats or bribing my kids to behave.  My kids will learn that if you don't behave there are consequences and sometimes that may mean a spanking while others may mean a simple time out or sent to their rooms.  

People wonder now days why kids are so out of control and I think the main reason is to many parents are to worried about what others may think if they punish or spank their kids.  Like I said before I was spanked by both parents and even though my father did take it too far, I still turned out to respect my elders and I grew up with wonderful morals.  Never touching drugs and I don't drink alchole.  I get compliments all the time about how well behaved my children are and at their young age they both say yes mame and no mame and they mind their manners.  Something that is lacking in so many kids today. I still have a long way to go in raising my children but if I can raise my kids up half as well as my mom did me then I'll be just fine.  

If spanking isn't your thing don't judge those who believe in it, you may have your way in raising your child and you wouldn't want someone to tell you to change how your raising them.  But please remember there still is a difference between abuse and dicipline.

I agree if your child is harmed in any way due to dicipline you have placed upon them then you should be held accountable.

 

[CCsugarcane]

karaalexis79 on 1:08 pm on Feb. 13, 2002[br]Open hands can inflict injury too.  I know from experience.  I spank my daughter when she is misbehaving, but smacking on the bottom or legs to get a point across and slapping in the face are two different things.  I don't think you should ever hit a child in the face (or anybody for that matter).

Kara~

Kara I agree, I feel all spanking should be on the bottom or the hand and no where else.  I have however tapped my children on the lips not to hurt but to let them know that what they may have done was inappropriate.  But those are for only times when my child has tried to bit or spit.  I can count on my one hand the number of times I've actually had to do so.  They are more shocked then hurt and the behavior stops immediately.  I don't make a habbit of it because I feel being hit in the face is a mean of abuse, I feel that it degrades someone and I certainly didn't like it when it was done to me.  But to make sure you understand I tap other words basically touching them with my hand slightly on the lips with no power behind it to let them know it is unacceptiable to spit or bit.  

 

[vraiblonde]

I have to admit, my first reaction to Ken slapping his daughter across the face was, "Oh my GOD!"  But then I thought about what my kids might say to me to earn a smack in the chops and I got realistic about it.  And I also thought about how my Mom should have belted me one for the way I talked to her when I was a teenager.  Some teenagers (like some adults) don't respond to anything other than force.  And they need to understand that they will speak to you with respect if for no other reason than that you'll kick their a$$ if they don't.

I threaten to beat my kids on a daily basis but I haven't actually laid hands on them in years.  Thank God they don't make me "put up or shut up" because I'm not sure what I'd do.