Donald Trump has accepted Christ

[Larry Gude]

Okay... how do we get there?

Simple. Go back to when women were property. You know, when America was great. :shrug:

 

[Larry Gude]

If we can stop women from choosing to have an abortion, we can then stop the from having sex in the first place. Then, we can stop them from doing all sorts of things. Control. Making America great again.

 

[PsyOps]

Simple. Go back to when women were property. You know, when America was great. :shrug:

Oh, I thought we were moving forward.

 

[Larry Gude]

Oh, I thought we were moving forward.

Haven't you ever wondered what Trump means when he says 'Make America Great Again"? I mean, if we use his lifetime, he came of age during one of the worst periods in American history, the 70's. Does he mean the Cold War 80's? The era of Clinton and crack and the dot com bubble, people lying about their books in the 90's??

 

[PsyOps]

Haven't you ever wondered what Trump means when he says 'Make America Great Again"? I mean, if we use his lifetime, he came of age during one of the worst periods in American history, the 70's. Does he mean the Cold War 80's? The era of Clinton and crack and the dot com bubble, people lying about their books in the 90's??

I think he's talking about government and the unapologetic, in-our-faces, corruption going on there; the kind that Hillary exemplifies.
I think he's talking about how Americans have completely lost faith in government to work for the people. Congress is at its lowest approval ratings since they've been keeping track.
I think he's talking about how this country used to be taken seriously by both our allies and our adversaries.
I think he's talking about our national debt.
I think he's talking about the racial divide; that which we haven't seen since the 60s.
I think he's talking about how most Americans feel our country is headed in the wrong direction.

This country has done some pretty terrible things. But most (like slavery and the treatment of women) have been rectified. We've moved beyond those things, and THAT is, in part, what defines our greatness; not what we've done wrong, but how we recognized those wrongs and made them right.

 

[PsyOps]

So Larry... I don't know if you've been asked this, but do you think America is great? If not, do you think it was ever great in our past?

 

[Larry Gude]

So Larry... I don't know if you've been asked this, but do you think America is great? If not, do you think it was ever great in our past?

I'd said this earlier in this thread or another one; I think America is it's greatest, ever, now and provided the basis for that. The following; if you base America's greatness on the individual, the right to life, liberty and freedom to pursue happiness, as I do, that time is now.

Now, that said, if you're a white male, things are not as great as they once were because all the freedom and liberty to pursue those things that women, blacks and gays now have came at our expense. So, from that view, America is less great than ever.

If you like global power, post WII was greater, the late 40's and into the 50's.

If you like economic power, right now, we're it. The little known story of TARP is that it was every bit as much to save the UK and, especially, Germany from paying for poor decisions as well.

Any other time, pre civil war, the age of the robber barons, the interwar years, all come with some pretty hefty baggage.

What we don't have now that we have had at other times is the sense of optimism that we've had at times in the past. So, from that standpoint, we're great now and, as I said many times, if Trump sees the health of the middle class, a rebirth of ability to earn and build wealth, to have something to leave behind, that could be good but he shows no signs, or abilities, or interest, really in seeking that. Many of the things he just throws out there and the mob roars approval at would most likely hurt the middle class, severely.

So, now, based on broad based right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, now we are the greatest we've ever been and that we can have not one but two totally absurd candidates for potus, maybe we're in better shape in other ways than we realize. No one goes to the worst doctor they can find if they're really sick and no one goes to the worst plumber if things are really broken. :shrug:

 

[ProximaCentauri]

I'd said this earlier in this thread or another one; I think America is it's greatest, ever, now and provided the basis for that. The following; if you base America's greatness on the individual, the right to life, liberty and freedom to pursue happiness, as I do, that time is now.

I agree based the individual's right to life, liberty, pursuit of happiness made greater by equality under the law. But the oppressive national debt, lack of quality individuals in government, and a tendency toward militarism are obvious detractors from America's greatness.

Now, that said, if you're a white male, things are not as great as they once were because all the freedom and liberty to pursue those things that women, blacks and gays now have came at our expense. So, from that view, America is less great than ever.

Equality under the law should not be, and I don't believe is, a zero sum game. And believe this perspective is predominately held by blue collar white males, usually uneducated with nothing to fall back on.

IMO, the pressure felt by the American working class, especially white blue collar males who used to hold high paying manufacturing jobs, is due world-wide competition and outsourcing. I witnessed this personally in China and Malaysia in the 90's. The manufacturing plants of the Fortune 100 company I worked for at the time, did in fact displace high paying American jobs by building state-of-the-art manufacturing plants in Shanghai and Kuala Lumpur. At the time, a Chinese Engineer with a Masters degree made about $4-5K a year US. Chinese manufacturing workers less than half that.

 

[This_person]

I am, by no means, condoning it. But like I asked GURPS, how do we get there? If the government bans these 95%ers, how does this stop a woman from getting that back alley abortion? Will banning it even result in reduced numbers of abortions? Will it even result in people behaving more responsibly?

I will admit, I honestly don't understand the question.

We ban certain drugs, make others only available under prescription, and others available over the counter. Elective abortions would be banned, medical or rape abortions available by doctor, and contraceptives continue to be available over the counter.

If people violate the abortion laws, they are punished appropriately, just like other crimes.

Back-alley abortions are not my concern. People will still kill people, even if murder is illegal.

 

[This_person]

Simple. Go back to when women were property. You know, when America was great. :shrug:

You DO know there was never such a time, right? I mean, other than slavery, and that certainly wasn't all women.

 

[This_person]

If we can stop women from choosing to have an abortion, we can then stop the from having sex in the first place. Then, we can stop them from doing all sorts of things. Control. Making America great again.

Now, abortion kills someone else, and sex (pretty generally speaking) doesn't. What would be the crime in having sex?

You could throw prostitution out there, but I think you and I would agree that prostitution should not be illegal.

 

[This_person]

I think he's talking about government and the unapologetic, in-our-faces, corruption going on there; the kind that Hillary exemplifies.
I think he's talking about how Americans have completely lost faith in government to work for the people. Congress is at its lowest approval ratings since they've been keeping track.
I think he's talking about how this country used to be taken seriously by both our allies and our adversaries.
I think he's talking about our national debt.
I think he's talking about the racial divide; that which we haven't seen since the 60s.
I think he's talking about how most Americans feel our country is headed in the wrong direction.

This country has done some pretty terrible things. But most (like slavery and the treatment of women) have been rectified. We've moved beyond those things, and THAT is, in part, what defines our greatness; not what we've done wrong, but how we recognized those wrongs and made them right.

While I agree with virtually everything you posted here, I would add that "Make America Great Again" is ambiguous as "Hope and Change" or "Stronger Together". All of these phrases mean nothing or everything or anything in between, based on the person interpreting them. That's what makes them great lines for politicians - they don't need to define them, because YOU, the voter, will define them for the politician in your own mind.

 

[This_person]

I'd said this earlier in this thread or another one; I think America is it's greatest, ever, now and provided the basis for that. The following; if you base America's greatness on the individual, the right to life, liberty and freedom to pursue happiness, as I do, that time is now.

TSA? NSA? ACA? Are you serious?

Now, that said, if you're a white male, things are not as great as they once were because all the freedom and liberty to pursue those things that women, blacks and gays now have came at our expense. So, from that view, America is less great than ever.

How does one person "gaining" a right (that they've always had) cost someone else a right? This is wrong on its face.

If you like global power, post WII was greater, the late 40's and into the 50's.

If you like economic power, right now, we're it. The little known story of TARP is that it was every bit as much to save the UK and, especially, Germany from paying for poor decisions as well.

Any other time, pre civil war, the age of the robber barons, the interwar years, all come with some pretty hefty baggage.

As does now

What we don't have now that we have had at other times is the sense of optimism that we've had at times in the past. So, from that standpoint, we're great now

If we don't have it, how does that make us great now?

and, as I said many times, if Trump sees the health of the middle class, a rebirth of ability to earn and build wealth, to have something to leave behind, that could be good but he shows no signs, or abilities, or interest, really in seeking that. Many of the things he just throws out there and the mob roars approval at would most likely hurt the middle class, severely.

Such as?

So, now, based on broad based right to life, liberty and pursuit of happiness, now we are the greatest we've ever been and that we can have not one but two totally absurd candidates for potus, maybe we're in better shape in other ways than we realize. No one goes to the worst doctor they can find if they're really sick and no one goes to the worst plumber if things are really broken. :shrug:

So, you don't see Clinton-esque politics as "broken"?

 

[Larry Gude]

TSA? NSA? ACA? Are you serious? ?

They apply across the board, like a speed limit. Rich man, poor man, beggar man thief, applies to all. That elevates them above discrimination or a reduction of rights of a given group or 'type' of person.
That doesn't make them constitutional, effective, moral or right. It just makes them fair, in this case equally bad for all. Now, in our defense as an elitist nation, more and more some people are able to avoid the rules if they fit approved groups.

 

[Larry Gude]

How does one person "gaining" a right (that they've always had) cost someone else a right? This is wrong on its face.

That's not what I said and you even quoted it. :shrug: I lose nothing if you are able to vote. To what I did say, I do lose something if you are given special rights to 'make up' for past injustice. I do have less power if you have more be it for jobs, a place at a school or the like.

 

[Larry Gude]

If we don't have it, how does that make us great now?

I laid out specifically what I was tying the concept to. You are entitled to your own characteristics. Being optimistic alone isn't enough to me.

 

[Larry Gude]

So, you don't see Clinton-esque politics as "broken"?

No and because we are choosing them. We can all choose bad food, bad entertainment, bad clothing, bad behavior and bad leaders. That is the flip side of being able to choose the good and that is a symptom of a general well being. If we were truly in bad shape, anarchy in the streets, internment camps, open political violence, we couldn't afford either of these poor choices. The only people who think Hillary is truly evil are people who wouldn't vote for her if they thought she was merely bad. Same for Trump. At the end of the day people voting for her think, worst case, we're strong enough to survive her as president and same goes for Trump voters.

 

[This_person]

They apply across the board, like a speed limit. Rich man, poor man, beggar man thief, applies to all. That elevates them above discrimination or a reduction of rights of a given group or 'type' of person.
That doesn't make them constitutional, effective, moral or right. It just makes them fair, in this case equally bad for all. Now, in our defense as an elitist nation, more and more some people are able to avoid the rules if they fit approved groups.

What does that have to do with life, liberty, or the pursuit of happiness?

We could "fairly" assign each person a job at birth, or at 18 after testing, and control all people's wages, and limit all people to one religion, and limit all people to what they're allowed to say about government, and then it would all be fair and equal, so that would be liberty?

No, Larry, your pivot makes no sense.

 

[This_person]

That's not what I said and you even quoted it. :shrug: I lose nothing if you are able to vote. To what I did say, I do lose something if you are given special rights to 'make up' for past injustice. I do have less power if you have more be it for jobs, a place at a school or the like.

You said that as a white man things are not as great for me because I gave up freedom and liberty to women, blacks, and gays. What did I give up? You said these things came at my expense....what did I pay?

 

[This_person]

No and because we are choosing them. We can all choose bad food, bad entertainment, bad clothing, bad behavior and bad leaders. That is the flip side of being able to choose the good and that is a symptom of a general well being. If we were truly in bad shape, anarchy in the streets, internment camps, open political violence, we couldn't afford either of these poor choices. The only people who think Hillary is truly evil are people who wouldn't vote for her if they thought she was merely bad. Same for Trump. At the end of the day people voting for her think, worst case, we're strong enough to survive her as president and same goes for Trump voters.

Do you know why we have the electoral college? Kay said it best in Men in Black; "A person is smart. People are dumb, panicky dangerous animals and you know it."

Just because people vote for it does NOT make it not broken.