Dressage peeps?

Phyxius

Zoooooooom
yayayayay come to the show!!! no close date, lower entry fees perhaps due a week before. yes its the 18th, check the calendar at Hollypoint Equestrian Center it will be fun!!! i'm gonna ride my horsie. perhaps training level. and maybe my pony too

Close date is one week before show. :whistle: Hehe, there have to be close dates for dressage shows as there are ride times and a limited number of entries (generally a full day is 50 rides). I think I can come, I guess I better find out for sure, huh?!

I won't ride in the December one though...Celia...:coffee:
 

Phyxius

Zoooooooom
Celia??

december...yahh.. cold. i'll be there all the same...

Celia Vornholt is the judge in December. I, personally am not going to pay to ride in front of her. Some judges seem to have preference in horses/types where in dressage the focus should be training. There are three local judges I won't spend my $40 to ride infront of. If you don't ride a draft, you're fine. There aren't any lights in the indoor are there? I know it's a coverall but it's still hard to photograph in there. I should have the new camera by then...maybe I'll try to come for that. :) Good luck!
 
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Sadielady

Ahhhh Florida!
There are lights, but I don't know how well photos turn out for you. Mine always have these little dust circles floating in my picture.:cussing:
 

devinej

New Member
huh ok so celia doesn't like drafts....anything in particular about them she doesn't like? does she like tbs? how about the other judges?
 

Phyxius

Zoooooooom
huh ok so celia doesn't like drafts....anything in particular about them she doesn't like? does she like tbs? how about the other judges?

Well, everyone has things they do and do not like about certain horses. Dressage, like hunters is very subjective. It should not matter what color your horse is, how tall your horse is, or what breed your horse is. Especially in the lower levels your horse should be judged on his training. A major key in dressage is relaxation. If the horse is tense or rushed but performs all of the required moves it could actually get a lower score than one that is relaxed and forward but maybe not entirely perfect. However, each level has a "purpose" and they should be reviewed and understood to get a better idea for what the judge is looking for.

There is a training scale and the horse should progress up that scale in order. Scores are given 0-10 for each move (and some for transistions or other hard moves there is a coeffiecient). Then also there are overall collective marks at the end of the test. One for gaits, one for submission, one for impulsion, and one for rider.

I don't think that the judges even intend to give certain horses lower scores, they just are falling into skin deep perception. Many judges also score andalusians lowly. Andalusians typically move differently from warmbloods in that their natural gaits are more animated and naturally collected. Since the lowerlevels want forward not collections many Andies suffer lower scores. Now, if the judge was perceptive enough to determine whether the horse was moving forward, with impulsion and freedom even though the stride isn't necessarily as ground covering as some warmbloods then you have a good judge. Klaus Balkenhol recently did and article on understanding impulsion for Dressage Today. (He is the coach for the USET dressage team.) I found two pictures in the article very telling. The pictures were of the hind feet of a horse in trot. One appears to be extending and moving very forward, but the toes are dragging. The other appears to be taking a short stride, but the hoof is clearly off the ground the joints of the leg are clearly flexed and the muscles are working. If those two horses were performing in the same class infront of the same judge the one with the shorter yet animated stride SHOULD receive the higher mark as it has impulsion. The other horse is lacking impulsion.

Sometimes this subtle difference is hard for people to see, even judges. It's amazing the differences in comments I'll get from judges regarding my horse's abilitly to work in a very uphill manner. Some have one basic comment on the test...on the forehand. I've worked very hard and Peanut is very rarely on the forehand and I can sure has heck feel it when he is. But, some people see a big horse and think he/she should be on the forehand and so they think he is.

Drafts and andalusians are not the only horses that commonly have problems with preconceived ideas in the dressage ring. Some QHs, Paints, and certainly ponies can too. As a whole the dressage world is getting better about adjusting what they think. Dressage was not designed for $80,000 horses. And, it's not exclusive to them.

Some local judges I really like are:
Nicky Vogel (r)
Betty Thorpe (r)
Judy Strohmaier (L)
Mikki Erriker (L)

I prefer S judges, but you don't usually see them at schooling shows. :)
 

IntegritysDream

New Member
Marja sandberg is also a schooling show judge for dressage stuff. I rode under Mikki when i did the prix caprili test and she was really nice, and we all know... esp then... indy was no where near dressage type, he was cutting in, slow with going to the trot, wiggly, noes to the outside... just all over the place, but she was very postive and encouraging!
 

Phyxius

Zoooooooom
Oh, and I meant to tell you that you should make sure that Michele Alexander's barn, Begin Again, knows about the show series. They're pretty close to you guys and I know that alot of the boarders/students there are dressage riders and I'm sure some would come to the shows. :)
 

Sadielady

Ahhhh Florida!
Helping a bird out!!(a lurker) who PMed me

Someone PMed me but is afraid to say anything on here because they are afraid they will get bashed, so I will just basically say what they told me. Some of it I directly copied....
"I disagree with her assesment of Celia. She is a big R and well qualified to judge fairly. It would be crazy to think judges at this level would not notice correct movement. Even L judges know the difference between impulsion and reach." Nicki Vogel is now a "R" judge.
"By Phyx saying that Celia doesn't like Paints, Drafts, Andies, ponies and QH, that doesn't leave much left!!"
 

Sadielady

Ahhhh Florida!
I feel like I am an MPD now.....BUT I have to defend Phyxius. I don't think she meant this judge doesn't like all of those breeds, she just meant that some judges generalize those breeds as not doing well in dressage (but it is changing). Phyxius probably rode under Ceila and disagreed with her evaluation, and doesn't want to waste her money. I have had judges in the hunter ring I felt the same way about, but other people loved them and did well. This is going to be my first dressage show. I am excited and quite unprepared, but I am used to making a fool out of myself. I encourage anyone to come out and support HP's first dressage series. If it goes as well as the hunter shows have I am sure they will be encouraged to have more. I think it has been great that we are having more events in our local area. I honestly have nothing to do with the dressage shows, but I know they have worked very hard to make it look professionally done. They have some good dressage instructors to help guide them with every decision.:buddies:
 

Sadielady

Ahhhh Florida!
Where's the prize list? Is it online? I'm guessing it tells you what test you do?

I think you can download it off of Holly Points website. I didn't know you rode dressage! If for some reason you can't find it, let me know and I will track it down.
 

Phyxius

Zoooooooom
Someone PMed me but is afraid to say anything on here because they are afraid they will get bashed, so I will just basically say what they told me. Some of it I directly copied....
"I disagree with her assesment of Celia. She is a big R and well qualified to judge fairly. It would be crazy to think judges at this level would not notice correct movement. Even L judges know the difference between impulsion and reach." Nicki Vogel is now a "R" judge.
"By Phyx saying that Celia doesn't like Paints, Drafts, Andies, ponies and QH, that doesn't leave much left!!"

First, I don't mind anyone disagreeing with me. It's a free world, I won't tell them they're wrong, just that I disagree.

I did not say that Celia dislikes drafts, andies, ponies, and paints. I said that SOME judges may still be leaning towards more traditional horses like warmbloods. If you take a bay warmblood and paint and put them in the same test in the same ring, with same training, same rider and same judge you won't necessarly get a tie. It is plain and simple fact that different people have different preferences. Some people like more animated movement. Some people like floatier trots. Some people like more contact, some people like less. Some people like light horses, some people like heavier horses. For example I photographed a show the other day judged by Jocelyn Pearson. Light horses like TBs/QHs were scoring a higher, on average than heavier horses like warmbloods. This is usually the opposite.

And believe me, you'd be suprised what some judges do and do not know. Noone is perfect, everyone has personal likes and dislikes and no matter how impartial they may try to be they will place what they like above what they don't. Haven't you ever been to a show and watched how the other people were placing? Some judges (speaking of dressage and hunters) prefer more contact than others, some prefer a deeper or lighter seat.

I know I've probably gotten some free points from a couple judged by having a "cool horse". I've had it written on numerous tests. I'll gladly scan some for you. I love getting them, but in truth comments like that really shouldn't be on the test.

End of story is that judging is subjective.
 

Phyxius

Zoooooooom
I feel like I am an MPD now.....BUT I have to defend Phyxius. I don't think she meant this judge doesn't like all of those breeds, she just meant that some judges generalize those breeds as not doing well in dressage (but it is changing). Phyxius probably rode under Ceila and disagreed with her evaluation, and doesn't want to waste her money. I have had judges in the hunter ring I felt the same way about, but other people loved them and did well. This is going to be my first dressage show. I am excited and quite unprepared, but I am used to making a fool out of myself. I encourage anyone to come out and support HP's first dressage series. If it goes as well as the hunter shows have I am sure they will be encouraged to have more. I think it has been great that we are having more events in our local area. I honestly have nothing to do with the dressage shows, but I know they have worked very hard to make it look professionally done. They have some good dressage instructors to help guide them with every decision.:buddies:

Exactly right, I prefer not to ride because the assessment of my ride and my horse was totally off and very slanted. I still placed first in the class. She's not a horrible judge. But, I'm not going to pay my money for someone who will only give certain comments. I view dressage shows of an assessment of training and the comments as tools to learn by. I can't change the fact that my horse is a draft horse. Sorry. Wouldn't want to either.

Which, by the way Celia is FANTASTIC with kids! She's a great judge if you're going to have young people riding. (I'm not sure about Betty Thorpe with kids, but the others I mentioned are also good with kids.)
 

Sadielady

Ahhhh Florida!
I know they would love to have any of our fabulous photographers on here come out to take photos. I am almost positive that it will be in the indoor, so I am not sure how difficult that task could be. If you tell me you are coming I will let them know, so they can make an announcement welcoming you. Other than that.....I want to relax, have fun, and watch everyone else have to do the work by running the show.:lmao:
 
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