Drug Use is"Victimless" - Not.

[Larry Gude]

See, I think people who distribute this ought to be drawn and quartered.

That's pretty much what ISIS does.

 

[luvmygdaughters]

And many, many agree with you. If you look at it from a macro level and not the "just a place to do drugs" level, it makes sense.

We already spend about $1 billion per year on substance and alcohol abuse treatment (with our taxdollars), we already spend millions on hospital and ambulatory care for addicts (with our taxdollars). Jail costs about $24,000 per person per year. Methadone costs almost $5000 per year for one person. All this and most people in treatment do not stay. In the cases of opioid addiction, addicts simply have to hit rock bottom before wanting treatment. Forcing them into treatment via court mandated treatment, or family intervention may help in some cases, but overall, it has to be on the addict to seek help, and stick with it.
http://www.heritage.org/budget-and-spending/report/the-case-against-more-funds-drug-treatment


https://www.drugabuse.gov/publicati...tions/drug-addiction-treatment-worth-its-cost

So, as much as you want to believe your taxdolalrs are being spent reasonably, a good chunk already pays for treatment.

I am not so naïve that I believe my tax dollars are being spent reasonably...on anything!!!! But, that's my point, we already fund a preposterous amount to addicts, why should we fund more? I have talked with EMS personnel who advised they are running constantly to calls involving overdoses...for the same people!! There are some people who will never be helped...they will be a constant and persistent drain on society, how long do we have to fund that? How many times does an overdose occur on the same person before we figure out, bringing them back around for the umpteenth time, is a waste of time, energy and medicine. I know it sounds harsh, but, if you choose to shoot dope into your veins, you're pretty much done with intelligent, decision making skills.

 

[terbear1225]

I am not so naïve that I believe my tax dollars are being spent reasonably...on anything!!!! But, that's my point, we already fund a preposterous amount to addicts, why should we fund more? I have talked with EMS personnel who advised they are running constantly to calls involving overdoses...for the same people!! There are some people who will never be helped...they will be a constant and persistent drain on society, how long do we have to fund that? How many times does an overdose occur on the same person before we figure out, bringing them back around for the umpteenth time, is a waste of time, energy and medicine. I know it sounds harsh, but, if you choose to shoot dope into your veins, you're pretty much done with intelligent, decision making skills.

I feel like you just made Chris's point for him. IF we are already paying preposterous amounts running constantly for overdoses for the same people, wouldn't having a safe place that would cut down on the ambulatory care and hospitalization costs be fiscally smart?

 

[Chris0nllyn]

I am not so naïve that I believe my tax dollars are being spent reasonably...on anything!!!! But, that's my point, we already fund a preposterous amount to addicts, why should we fund more? I have talked with EMS personnel who advised they are running constantly to calls involving overdoses...for the same people!! There are some people who will never be helped...they will be a constant and persistent drain on society, how long do we have to fund that? How many times does an overdose occur on the same person before we figure out, bringing them back around for the umpteenth time, is a waste of time, energy and medicine. I know it sounds harsh, but, if you choose to shoot dope into your veins, you're pretty much done with intelligent, decision making skills.

It's not spending more, it transfering the money already being spent while saving some, into program(s) that work (based on evidence from around the world). And what you said is harsh, but so is the world. Many of these addicts use dope to cope and need to no only learn to stay off the drug, but learn to cope with life in general. You can't be productive and simply fall back to drugs each and everytime life gets tough.

What I'm saying is the current model isn't working by just about every metric that can be used to measure "success". We spend gobs of money on all sorts of things relating to drugs. From encarceration, to treatment, to policing, to courts, etc. It's time we take a long hard look into our system and ask ourselves, "What is the end goal?" Seriously, what's the goal? Is it to reduce public health issues that stem from addiction? Is it to offer help so these addicts can become productive members of society (when they choose to)?

If it's to spend billions of dollars on an overall program that hasn't changed anything, then we've got that down.

This entire thread was created because of the idea that the mother in this case is the victim. Anyone who is a parent can certianly empathize with her, so I'd argue that regardless of how many times someone ODs, a majority of them still has someone who cares if they live or die.

 

[black dog]

SIFs aren't privately operated. They are publicly funded, and turns out, they save taxpayer money.



There's no safe injection facilities anywhere in the US...yet. That's because it's federally illegal to do so.

There are two in Canada though. 3 million people visited it since it opened, with about 5,000 ODs, and no deaths.

My first post was nothing but sarcasm, one of the last things a taxpayer should be on the hook for is a safe space for drug addicts.

My next post was explaining what that clinic was in Callaway.
And hopefully there never will be taxpayer paid saferooms for addicts to use.

 

[black dog]

This entire thread was created because of the idea that the mother in this case is the victim. Anyone who is a parent can certianly empathize with her, so I'd argue that regardless of how many times someone ODs, a majority of them still has someone who cares if they live or die.

I'm a parent and I really don't have any empathy at all for this mother or the drug addict that died. This young man is not new in the drug game, you work up to drugs like fentanyl. It ain't a gateway drug.
He was chasing Puff, and the dragon got him.
Do you think the taxpayers are covering his massive hospital bill?
I know this, when addicts are injecting and are mixing drugs,,,,,, the end is near.

 

[Larry Gude]

I'm a parent and I really don't have any empathy at all for this mother or the drug addict that died. This young man is not new in the drug game, you work up to drugs like fentanyl. It ain't a gateway drug.
He was chasing Puff, and the dragon got him.
Do you think the taxpayers are covering his massive hospital bill?
I know this, when addicts are injecting and are mixing drugs,,,,,, the end is near.

Then, if all you care about is the dollars and cents, decriminalization is the way to go. The crime and violence go away; net cost goes down. bad drugs go away, net cost goes down. The corruption and bad cops and judges go away, net cost goes down. Drug lawyers have to go find other work, net cost goes down. The cost of jails and investigations and trials and all of that, away it goes.

Read up on Portugal's 15 years experience with this. Their results are better than anything I would have predicted.

 

[littlelady]

Then, if all you care about is the dollars and cents, decriminalization is the way to go. The crime and violence go away; net cost goes down. bad drugs go away, net cost goes down. The corruption and bad cops and judges go away, net cost goes down. Drug lawyers have to go find other work, net cost goes down. The cost of jails and investigations and trials and all of that, away it goes.

Read up on Portugal's 15 years experience with this. Their results are better than anything I would have predicted.

Why do you even answer bd? He thinks he knows everything about everything. Waste.Of.Time.

 

[black dog]

Then, if all you care about is the dollars and cents, decriminalization is the way to go. The crime and violence go away; net cost goes down. bad drugs go away, net cost goes down. The corruption and bad cops and judges go away, net cost goes down. Drug lawyers have to go find other work, net cost goes down. The cost of jails and investigations and trials and all of that, away it goes.

Read up on Portugal's 15 years experience with this. Their results are better than anything I would have predicted.

I don't need to read up on decriminalization, drugs never should have been regulated to begin with here. I should be able to walk into a pharmacy and buy any drug I want.