dying process

[libby]

Is there anyone out here that can answer a question about the dying process? An uncle is near the end of his life from lung cancer. While he was still being treated he received IV fluids to hydrate him, which helped his energy and well being tremendously. Hospice has been called in, and to my aunt's surprise, they said to stop the IV hydration. She did not realize this would fall under the "treatment" category, and she is now hesitant to start hospice (in my home state, apparently you can change your mind and resume treatment).
Does anyone know if the fluids, at this point, will be doing more damage/discomfort and pain to my uncle? Is that why they said stop? The nurse also made some mention of a "drowning" sort of effect. Will his body retain the fluids, in particular in his lungs?
I greatly appreciate any general info anyone can give me.

 

[aps45819]

Ask a doctor that's familiar with his case.

All we can do is guess

 

[Dakota]

Is there anyone out here that can answer a question about the dying process? An uncle is near the end of his life from lung cancer. While he was still being treated he received IV fluids to hydrate him, which helped his energy and well being tremendously. Hospice has been called in, and to my aunt's surprise, they said to stop the IV hydration. She did not realize this would fall under the "treatment" category, and she is now hesitant to start hospice (in my home state, apparently you can change your mind and resume treatment).
Does anyone know if the fluids, at this point, will be doing more damage/discomfort and pain to my uncle? Is that why they said stop? The nurse also made some mention of a "drowning" sort of effect. Will his body retain the fluids, in particular in his lungs?
I greatly appreciate any general info anyone can give me.

Hospice comes in when there is no hope for a recovery. I have been through the Hospice process up close and personal, 3 times. Just as recently as May of 2012. IV’s can cause retention of fluid more particularly with those dying from lung cancer and it also prolongs the patient’s suffering. I would discuss these concerns with your doctor but I'll be honest, there really are no easy answers or choices. It is all very difficult. The best of luck to you all.

 

[libby]

Ask a doctor that's familiar with his case.

All we can do is guess

Well, while that seems kind of obvious, there are some trust issues. I am very aware that there can be no definitive statements made here, but I'm hoping that someone who has gone through this, or worked with this, can make a general statement about the wisdom of this.
For instance, I'm guessing his body will retain the fluid, and presumably that's why they're saying to stop.
But, I don't know if there is a mentality of hastening the dying process involved.

 

[libby]

Hospice comes in when there is no hope for a recovery. I have been through the Hospice process up close and personal, 3 times. Just as recently as May of 2012. IV’s can cause retention of fluid more particularly with those dying from lung cancer and it also prolongs the patient’s suffering. I would discuss these concerns with your doctor but I'll be honest, there really are no easy answers or choices. It is all very difficult. The best of luck to you all.

There is no hope, and my aunt needs to accept that. I love my uncle, but I've lost my dad and I do understand that when it's over, then it's over.
Like I said, we're really just not sure if they're hastening his death, or if they are aware of some more pain and suffering that the fluid will cause. They didn't seem to tell my aunt clearly why she should stop. Or, perhaps, she's just not in a state of mind to hear clearly.

 

[URVIRGO]

I have a family member going thru this right now. When you get hospice.... thats it. They do not treat you anymore. If you go back to getting treatment then hospice will leave. You cant get both but the great thing about hospice is that they do everything they can to keep you comfortable. They are wonderful.

Best of luck to you all .....

 

[aps45819]

Well, while that seems kind of obvious, there are some trust issues. I am very aware that there can be no definitive statements made here, but I'm hoping that someone who has gone through this, or worked with this, can make a general statement about the wisdom of this.
For instance, I'm guessing his body will retain the fluid, and presumably that's why they're saying to stop.
But, I don't know if there is a mentality of hastening the dying process involved.

No fluids and a healthy person will die in 3-5 days.

 

[RoseRed]

Although Hospice is a great organization, it doesn't always work as it should. My step-father was in it for 3 years or so and he was released, probably because he rallied back and forth so much. When he died at home, it was a PITA to find someone to sign the death certificate before his body could be released.

 

[PrepH4U]

No fluids and a healthy person will die in 3-5 days.

Not always true, my Mom held on for over 2 weeks.

 

[Bann]

There is no hope, and my aunt needs to accept that. I love my uncle, but I've lost my dad and I do understand that when it's over, then it's over.
Like I said, we're really just not sure if they're hastening his death, or if they are aware of some more pain and suffering that the fluid will cause. They didn't seem to tell my aunt clearly why she should stop. Or, perhaps, she's just not in a state of mind to hear clearly.

They're probably telling her, she's not in state of mind to hear clearly.

My mom was in Hospice for 2 months before she passed.

No life prolonging procedures are done, and that could include a multitude of things. For instance, my mother was insulin dependent when she was being recommended for Hospice care, and I was told she could not receive insulin shots while in Hospice care. So we didn't give her insulin shots. I think she did have 1 medication which was for diabetes that they continued, but that was it. It was also required for her to have a DNR ("do not resuscitate") order.

If you ask your aunt, maybe she can show you the paperwork that she got from Hospice? It will cover all the particulars & might answer a few more of your questions. If you can get your aunt to allow you to be able to receive information verbally, maybe you can talk to the nurses there.

From my experience they will not let your uncle suffer, as the care they provide is palliative. Palliative care - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Hospice - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

My mother was made very comfortable, and was treated with dignity, respect and very tender loving care. She was very much catered to. I could not be with her 24/7, so it was a huge relief that someone was providing this care for her.

 

[Dakota]

Hospice at first is a rude-awakening - you go from being a care giver to a comfort giver really not taking much action where medical intervention is concerned. It is hard to flip that switch. In fact, I openly admit that I had a very difficult time with it all & I consider myself a realist and an emotionally strong person.

 

[frequentflier]

Hospice at first is a rude-awakening - you go from being a care giver to a comfort giver really not taking much action where medical intervention is concerned. It is hard to flip that switch. In fact, I openly admit that I had a very difficult time with it all & I consider myself a realist and an emotionally strong person.

I was relieved when my Mom went into Hospice care. I would have pulled the plug on her long before Hospice if I could have. Her quality of life was gone long before we reached the point of calling Hospice in; as the months of chemo and pain treatments only seemed to intensify her pain and discomfort.

My Mom chose me as the child she was comfortable dying with. She did not have DNR but I stopped the 1st responders from reviving her. My siblings all told me they wouldn't have presence of mind to do so. She wanted to die in her home and if she had been revived, we all would have been in the hospital for 2 to 5 days; standing vigil by her bedside in the hospital waiting...

RIP, Mom. You are in a much better place.

 

[Bann]

Hospice at first is a rude-awakening - you go from being a care giver to a comfort giver really not taking much action where medical intervention is concerned. It is hard to flip that switch. In fact, I openly admit that I had a very difficult time with it all & I consider myself a realist and an emotionally strong person.

You're right and it can be hard. I was completely aware and making informed decisions for my mother's Hospice care, fully on board. I knew what was going to happen, what was inevitable and I really truly only wanted her end stages of life to be as calm & peaceful and comforting as possible. I knew I couldn't provide that 24/7 with literally NO support network. I was at peace with the decisions I made for her. (I was her medical agent)

My brother had a very hard time with the concept. He was in another state demanding to know things like why I couldn't have an eye doctor come see my mother, because would tell him on the phone she couldn't see well, etc. Or why they didn't do this or that. One day I almost screamed at him "what part of dying do you not understand?"

Not only was I dealing with her. I was dealing with him. It was all very difficult to manage at times. Libby, it is most helpful if you have someone to lean on emotionally. You will need it. If you can provide that emotional support to your aunt, that will be a big help to her.

 

[Roman]

When a person's metabolism slows down, and they can't get up, sit up, or walk around, the IV Fluids can back up from the system, and go in to the lungs, causing pulmonary edema (fluid back up in the lungs) The system is no longer getting rid of these fluids either. I'm very sorry about your Uncle.

 

[ginwoman]

This is a very interesting and informative thread.

 

[RoseRed]

My step-father was cared for bedridden for four years at home. Had he been in a nursing home, he would have expired a long time ago.

 

[Dakota]

You're right and it can be hard. I was completely aware and making informed decisions for my mother's Hospice care, fully on board. I knew what was going to happen, what was inevitable and I really truly only wanted her end stages of life to be as calm & peaceful and comforting as possible. I knew I couldn't provide that 24/7 with literally NO support network. I was at peace with the decisions I made for her. (I was her medical agent)

My brother had a very hard time with the concept. He was in another state demanding to know things like why I couldn't have an eye doctor come see my mother, because would tell him on the phone she couldn't see well, etc. Or why they didn't do this or that. One day I almost screamed at him "what part of dying do you not understand?"

Not only was I dealing with her. I was dealing with him. It was all very difficult to manage at times. Libby, it is most helpful if you have someone to lean on emotionally. You will need it. If you can provide that emotional support to your aunt, that will be a big help to her.

I had a cousin living in another state that was my Monday morning quarterback. He never came to visit but called often so I can relate to that wanting to scream. We waited too long to call in Hospice. In fact, my husband insisted we discuss this with her doctor when we were told there was nothing more that could be done. Her doctor said absolutely and they worked rather quickly getting them onboard. I had been trying to do things by myself and was worn out. We were on Hospice at home for 5 days then she was moved to the Hospice House after I injured my back. She died 5 days later. It was a strange situation in the fact that this was my grandmother - not my mother this go around. My mother was her only child and my children were having an extremely difficult time seeing her out of her mind (brain cancer). Like FF, I admit I was relieved after I accepted it all. I had cried so much before she passed away that when she finally went, I had no tears left. I felt so relieved.

 

[DoWhat]

There is no hope, and my aunt needs to accept that. I love my uncle, but I've lost my dad and I do understand that when it's over, then it's over.
Like I said, we're really just not sure if they're hastening his death, or if they are aware of some more pain and suffering that the fluid will cause. They didn't seem to tell my aunt clearly why she should stop. Or, perhaps, she's just not in a state of mind to hear clearly.

Wishing you and your family the best.

 

[Pasofever]

I did not read all the answers but I have been threw this more then I would like...treatment near the end is ANYTHING antibiotics, fluids etc..part of the natural process is the dehydration which helps shut down the body..even not treating pneumonia is part of the process...making them comfortable is what hospice does..ie pain killers etc...sorry you are going threw this..HUGS

 

[libby]

When a person's metabolism slows down, and they can't get up, sit up, or walk around, the IV Fluids can back up from the system, and go in to the lungs, causing pulmonary edema (fluid back up in the lungs) The system is no longer getting rid of these fluids either. I'm very sorry about your Uncle.

This is the answer I am looking for! I greatly appreciate everyone's responses, heartfelt condolences and stories that they have shared. I am not with my uncle as he is still back in my hometown, and whatever info I can learn to help my extended family (no one is in medicine in the family) I want to learn.
My uncle is still mobile and even getting out for car rides and short visits, so perhaps they called hospice prematurely. Or, perhaps, they are just getting ready for the time hospice comes in. I'm a little sketchy on some details because I am not there. Hopefully, I will make a quick trip up there soon!

Thank you all!