EV START-UP BOOM IS OVER! Scarred by WIRE & SECURITIES FRAUD!

[BOP]

From the description:
In the EV world, the SEC launched an inquiry in Nikola. Ultimately, Trevor Milton, Nikola's founder, was convicted of fraud. Nikola settled with the SEC for $125 million. With a track record of Fraud, Nikola Corp. founder Trevor Milton remains free on $100 million bond as his sentencing on three fraud convictions scheduled for Friday was delayed until June 21, 2023.

That's just the tip of the proverbial iceberg. The bloom is definitely off the EV rose. The question of whether or not EVs can ever become viable (and affordable, which is an important part of their viability) is one that needs to be asked. I think we all know that the entirety of the left does not like uncomfortable questions being asked about any of their pet projects (if they want other people to pay for it, it's a pet project). They interpret questioning the facts and the evidence as some kind of rebellious behavior that needs to be put down like a dictator puts down a revolt.

I think Kevin said it best, if I can summarize, when he talked about how long the internal combustion engine has been a thing. All the government mandates, executive orders, the shaming, the bullying, and so on, is not going to bring the EV of the modern age to the same place that internal combustion-powered vehicles occupy in society overnight.

That's especially true in this day and age when the left appears to be doing their best to crash and burn our economy, and with it, the world economy.

 

[Kyle]

That's especially true in this day and age when the left appears to be doing their best to crash and burn our economy, and with it, the world economy.

And they'll continue to work that agenda until they are humanely euthanized.

 

[BOP]

And they'll continue to work that agenda until they are humanely euthanized.

I'm in favor of "enhanced interrogation" for them. What they've done to our once great country should be painful.

 

[Kyle]

I'm in favor of "enhanced interrogation" for them. What they've done to our once great country should be painful.

OK.

How about thousands at a time, chained together and to an anchor on a carrier deck and let it go over the side?

 

[GURPS]

That's especially true in this day and age when the left appears to be doing their best to crash and burn our economy, and with it, the world economy.

Lizzie Biden and Sanders are really going to crater the stock marklet when Stock Holder have to pay taxes on Unrealized Gains just because the value of the stock went up a nickle

 

[BOP]

OK.

How about thousands at a time, chained together and to an anchor on a carrier deck and let it go over the side?

With Dr. Evil's henchwoman bellowing "Let go the anchor!"

 

[SamSpade]

You know, when it comes to the government intervening and trying to "prime the pump" as it were, to try to promote a product or technology - I can't recall ANY such effort being successful - or at least, being the PRIMARY source of intervention, being successful.

The old expression "build a better mousetrap" - seems to almost ALWAYS work. Make an electric car CHEAPER to use and maintain than a car with a combustion engine - and they'll be lining up outside the door.

Can anyone recall a product or service - one in private industry - that the governmnet promoted as the primary motivator - that succeeded?

I remember during Obama's administration, when he was trying to advance the use of solar panels - that one of the results was a wiping OUT of certain businesses, because the government PICKED which companies it wanted to help. Now, if you make solar panels and the government is bankrolling your competitor - wouldn't YOU close up shop, since you can never hope to compete successfully?

If Uncle Sam wants businesses that produce green technology to succeed, they need to stop thinking that all they need to do is find a way to cheapen their cost (by subsidizng them or asssisting companies) to make mass production productive - and start innovating in the technology and providing it to them.

 

[GURPS]

because the government PICKED which companies it wanted to help.

400 Million in Gov backed loans could NOT say Solyandra

Once the Gov Cheese Dried up, the company collapsed

 

[SamSpade]

400 Million in Gov backed loans could NOT say Solyandra

I went to school (in the 70's) with the guy who started Solyndra. Even at 16, he was convinced solar would change the world.
Being 17 and planning to go into nuclear engineering - a major I changed after Three Mile Island - I was convinced it would be nuclear.

I read from a mutual friend during that catastrophe that he had a lot of regrets over the whole debacle.

 

[GURPS]

convinced solar would change the world

Could but Solar Costs to much for the Energy Output ... the Price per W is way better than previously

but the dirty secret Solar is Dirty and has huge waste issues like EV Batteries

 

[Kyle]

Could but Solar Costs to much for the Energy Output ... the Price per W is way better than previously

but the dirty secret Solar is Dirty and has huge waste issues like EV Batteries

But as long as they "don't see it" it's clean power.

And lets face it. Democrats are good at "See no, Hear no" games.

 

[SamSpade]

.. the Price per W is way better than previously

It's worse than that - it deteriorates over time, to the point where after a couple decades of use, it's useless.

There are these companies financing solar panels on rooftops over a period of 30 years, when after twenty, you're really getting a LOT less out of them.

When solar panels reach a serious point of effiiciency and are far more durable - and cheaper WITHOUT having their creation POISON THE EARTH - then I am interested.

Not until then.

 

[Hijinx]

At some point in time even the most ignorant person in the world has to realize that EV';s just won't cut the mustard with today's technology.
Hauling around a battery that weighs as much as the rest of the car and costs as much as half the car and needs to be charged for 5 hrs at a charging station 10 miles from home, and when it goes bad is another hazardous waste just doesn't make much sense.

The infrastructure CANNOT be made in the time it will be needed, and when it is made will be expensive making the cost of electricity really expensive,, and closing down the power plants we have now is just plain crazy. Pretty soon SMECO will be raising your rates again Not kidding folks.
Another rate raise is coming this year. We have 2 perfectly good power plants here in Southern Maryland. Closed down. Maryland seems to believe if California does it, it's good enough for us. Maryland elects democrats and Moore will sign anything the Democrat Legislature sends over.

 

[Clem72]

It's worse than that - it deteriorates over time, to the point where after a couple decades of use, it's useless.

There are these companies financing solar panels on rooftops over a period of 30 years, when after twenty, you're really getting a LOT less out of them.

When solar panels reach a serious point of effiiciency and are far more durable - and cheaper WITHOUT having their creation POISON THE EARTH - then I am interested.

Not until then.

Where's your evidence to support this? Most modules are warranted to provide better than 80% of their original output at 30 years, which is far from useless. We don't have any 30 year old installations with current mono/poly tech cells, but I know many people who are approaching 20 years who are doing just fine in terms of cell degradation. Hell I know one guy with 40+ year old panels (retired Cal Poly professor) that he made which are still working. No idea of output, but he is still off-grid with his original panels.

 

[Gilligan]

Where's your evidence to support this? Most modules are warranted to provide better than 80% of their original output at 30 years, which is far from useless. We don't have any 30 year old installations with current mono/poly tech cells, but I know many people who are approaching 20 years who are doing just fine in terms of cell degradation. Hell I know one guy with 40+ year old panels (retired Cal Poly professor) that he made which are still working. No idea of output, but he is still off-grid with his original panels.

The panels in our upcoming off-grid system have a 25-year warranty. They are sized to account for about a 10% conversion efficiency degradation over 10 years, if I recall correctly. The system is very scalable, so we can add capacity at any time.

 

[SamSpade]

Where's your evidence to support this? Most modules are warranted to provide better than 80% of their original output at 30 years, which is far from useless. We don't have any 30 year old installations with current mono/poly tech cells, but I know many people who are approaching 20 years who are doing just fine in terms of cell degradation. Hell I know one guy with 40+ year old panels (retired Cal Poly professor) that he made which are still working. No idea of output, but he is still off-grid with his original panels.

My buddy's house was furnished by Solar City, and that's the gist of what they told him - by thirty years, they're nearly worn out and output is attenuated sharply each year such that by year twenty, it ought to be upgraded.

 

[SamSpade]

My house averages about 3k-4k kw-hrs of electricity a month. I have not seen anything that shows me it would ever be cost effective to replace with solar. For the cost of solar over just twenty years, I could just pay whatever SMECO screws me over with, retire, sell the house and move away and I'd still be ahead of the game.

 

[Clem72]

My buddy's house was furnished by Solar City, and that's the gist of what they told him - by thirty years, they're nearly worn out and output is attenuated sharply each year such that by year twenty, it ought to be upgraded.

Color me surprised, the saleskid with 3 days of training either doesn't know what theyre talking about or is intentionally misrepresenting the truth to push their product. Of course you want to lease, you wouldn't want to pay more to own these panels that will be completely worthless in a few years. Just sign the lease and we will replace them whenever they degrade, because we care about you, the customer.

 

[Sneakers]

by thirty years, they're nearly worn out

That's contrary to everything I've read. If a 20 year warranty is offered, they usually base that on degradation of 20%, but they don't just drop off to nothing in the following years. The dropoff is pretty linear. Many examples like this are very similar.

 

[Clem72]

My house averages about 3k-4k kw-hrs of electricity a month. I have not seen anything that shows me it would ever be cost effective to replace with solar. For the cost of solar over just twenty years, I could just pay whatever SMECO screws me over with, retire, sell the house and move away and I'd still be ahead of the game.

Agree, but only because installation labor is a racket. 20 grand labor for 6 guys to spend 4 hours on my roof? Really? Oh, I need micro-inverters instead of cheap strings even though there isn't a single obstruction to shade my panels? I need to oversize my MPPT inverter 100% just to make sure the parts aren't stressed and better size my install for the 1 in 100 year most electricity I will ever need!

Fact is IF you have the right house for it (unshaded roof not too steep more or less west-facing) and you're smart about the installation (grid-tie at about 80% of your actual need) you can do the install on the cheap. Buy a kit, install yourself, have an electrician bless it and wait the year for smeco to bless the connection.

You can buy an absolutely complete 8KW kit (includes the tools, caulk, everything) for less than $10k. Even without a dime of incentives or tax credits or whatever that pays for itself in less than 10 years.

And when it does come time to replace those panels, lets say at 20 years like your saleperson friend mentioned, those are cheap compared to everything else and if you can use a socket wrench and a pair of diagonal cutters to clip cable ties you could replace them yourself very easily.