EV START-UP BOOM IS OVER! Scarred by WIRE & SECURITIES FRAUD!

[Gilligan]

Our new 16kw system will pay for itself in 5-6 years, depending on what diesel fuel costs do.

 

[SamSpade]

I stand corrected.

That's contrary to everything I've read. If a 20 year warranty is offered, they usually base that on degradation of 20%, but they don't just drop off to nothing in the following years. The dropoff is pretty linear. Many examples like this are very similar.

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[SamSpade]

You can buy an absolutely complete 8KW kit (includes the tools, caulk, everything) for less than $10k. Even without a dime of incentives or tax credits or whatever that pays for itself in less than 10 years.

Ok - but I'm all thumbs and even when I CAN do the work, my health is way too poor not to pay someone else to do it.
That, plus I am looking to retire within that time and when that happens, I plan to get the hell away from Maryland and certainly, this old, drafty house. So even BEST case scenario, I will be gone before I ever recoup the money.

I really HOPE - that my next home (which will likely be my last home) is suitable for solar, and I may see that it is part of the cost of the home - along with, possibly, geothermal. I just can't see the wisdom of ME using it on my present home unless cost, installation and ROI becomes more attractive.

 

[SamSpade]

Our new 16kw system will pay for itself in 5-6 years, depending on what diesel fuel costs do.

What does it mean in terms of monthly usage, when you say 16kW system? How many kW-hrs can it deliver, per month?

 

[Clem72]

Ok - but I'm all thumbs and even when I CAN do the work, my health is way too poor not to pay someone else to do it.
That, plus I am looking to retire within that time and when that happens, I plan to get the hell away from Maryland and certainly, this old, drafty house. So even BEST case scenario, I will be gone before I ever recoup the money.

I really HOPE - that my next home (which will likely be my last home) is suitable for solar, and I may see that it is part of the cost of the home - along with, possibly, geothermal. I just can't see the wisdom of ME using it on my present home unless cost, installation and ROI becomes more attractive.

Understandable. Many of the same reasons why I don't have SOLAR. But I don't knock it for the people that it does work for. It's just a shame that most people only see the door-to-door vacuum salesperson side of the industry.

 

[Sneakers]

I really HOPE - that my next home (which will likely be my last home) is suitable for solar, and I may see that it is part of the cost of the home - along with, possibly, geothermal.

Heating/cooling is the major portion of power usage in a home. Switching to geothermal alone may offset your monthly costs to the point where solar procurement is more expensive than the return, unless the goal is total off-grid.

I've seen significant savings in my electric bill since switching to a hybrid (heat pump) water heater.

 

[SamSpade]

Heating/cooling is the major portion of power usage in a home.

I so wish my wife would believe this - she's still convinced that it's lights and computers.

 

[Sneakers]

I so wish my wife would believe this - she's still convinced that it's lights and computers.

I have 2 fridges, an upright freezer, a small chest freezer, a dehumidifier, the hybrid water heater, tons of vampire power draws, automatic kitchen and outdoor lights that run all night long, 50" TV that runs all day long. Pellet stove for heat (1100w on startup). My bill is between $75 and $90/mo most of the year. For the few months of summer, it jumps to $250/mo with the a/c running. Cooling is the biggest draw, and those wonderful weekly charts from SMECO shows the clothes dryer is the 2nd biggest draw.

 

[Gilligan]

What does it mean in terms of monthly usage, when you say 16kW system? How many kW-hrs can it deliver, per month?

Good question....I'll have to dig out the power survey we did when this project began. We have an unusual "duty cycle" to support; typically only running the 25kw generator from Friday-Sunday or Monday. Tue-Thursday, no electricity required/used.

 

[SamSpade]

As HUGE as our electric bill is, typically - we're now over 500 month - I do wonder if I would see electric being used if I TURNED THE WHOLE HOUSE OFF. I swsear, I see that little dial moving when there just can't be much running.

I know on long vacations, I've turned down the furnace, turned off everything and still didn't notice a big dffierence in the bill.

 

[Gilligan]

What does it mean in terms of monthly usage, when you say 16kW system? How many kW-hrs can it deliver, per month?

I'll find the numbers. It is sized based on our known/current average generator useage...roughly 2300-2400 kwhr per month.

 

[Kyle]

As HUGE as our electric bill is, typically - we're now over 500 month - I do wonder if I would see electric being used if I TURNED THE WHOLE HOUSE OFF. I swsear, I see that little dial moving when there just can't be much running.

I know on long vacations, I've turned down the furnace, turned off everything and still didn't notice a big dffierence in the bill.

Are you sure your neighbor isn't running a 4/0 feed over to his house from your panel?

 

[LightRoasted]

For your consideration ...

Where's your evidence to support this? Most modules are warranted to provide better than 80% of their original output at 30 years, which is far from useless. We don't have any 30 year old installations with current mono/poly tech cells, but I know many people who are approaching 20 years who are doing just fine in terms of cell degradation. Hell I know one guy with 40+ year old panels (retired Cal Poly professor) that he made which are still working. No idea of output, but he is still off-grid with his original panels.

Those manufacture, warranties, (used to increase sales), is based on rating tests that are performed in pristine and controlled conditions with the panel temperature at 77°F. Whereas panels sitting atop a roof lose a lot of their efficiency due to the enormous heat generated because they are black and lack any cooling ventilation. Which also, over time, causes the useful life of the panels to be reduced.

Heat, is the major enemy of solar panels. Which can severely reduce efficiency by upwards of 25% or better. This happens in the summer, or in other hot climates. Anything hotter than 95°F, (not the air temperature, but the heat energy absorbed by the panels), and the efficiency starts to deteriorate fast.

 

[SamSpade]

Are you sure your neighbor isn't running a 4/0 feed over to his house from your panel?

Oh I absolutely think SOMETHING weird is happening. What I SUSPECT however, is a very faulty measuring. I just don't see HOW that much electric is being used.

 

[Clem72]

For your consideration ...



Those manufacture, warranties, (used to increase sales), is based on rating tests that are performed in pristine and controlled conditions with the panel temperature at 77°F. Whereas panels sitting atop a roof lose a lot of their efficiency due to the enormous heat generated because they are black and lack any cooling ventilation. Which also, over time, causes the useful life of the panels to be reduced.

Heat, is the major enemy of solar panels. Which can severely reduce efficiency by upwards of 25% or better. This happens in the summer, or in other hot climates. Anything hotter than 95°F, (not the air temperature, but the heat energy absorbed by the panels), and the efficiency starts to deteriorate fast.

Do you just make stuff up?

The VOC/VMP are calculated the way you mention but that has nothing to do with degradation estimates. Those are calculated after ASTM or equivalent standards environmental / accelerated aging / accelerated weathering testing by third party labs. Dozens or hundreds of different tests with high UV, differential UV, humidity and heat fluctions, temperature extremes, simulated sand/debris/hail, etc. etc. etc. Basically the exact opposite of what you stated.

 

[OccamsRazor]

I definitely think SMECO has something going on with regards to billing. Tracking temps over the last 3-4 weeks, I always see that my power usage is the same overnight between 12AM and 6AM. Even when overnight temps are in the 50s or the 30s. Same energy "usage." Same billing. How?

 

[LightRoasted]

For your consideration ...

Do you just make stuff up?

The VOC/VMP are calculated the way you mention but that has nothing to do with degradation estimates. Those are calculated after ASTM or equivalent standards environmental / accelerated aging / accelerated weathering testing by third party labs. Dozens or hundreds of different tests with high UV, differential UV, humidity and heat fluctions, temperature extremes, simulated sand/debris/hail, etc. etc. etc. Basically the exact opposite of what you stated.

How Does Heat Affect Solar Panel Efficiencies?

Excessive heat can significantly reduce a solar installation's power output. Our photovoltaic engineering and design experts offer advice and key tips on avoiding energy loss in array design by helping you understand the basics of a solar module's temperature coefficient information provided in...

www.greentechrenewables.com

So in ten years, one could lose potentially 30% efficiency.

 

[Clem72]

For your consideration ...

How Does Heat Affect Solar Panel Efficiencies?

Excessive heat can significantly reduce a solar installation's power output. Our photovoltaic engineering and design experts offer advice and key tips on avoiding energy loss in array design by helping you understand the basics of a solar module's temperature coefficient information provided in...

www.greentechrenewables.com

View attachment 169491
So in ten years, one could lose potentially 30% efficiency.

If you can dodge a wrench, you can dodge a ball.

You said they base their warranty numbers off of pristine lab testing, don't go moving the goal posts.

 

[Kinnakeet]

I cant believe anyone would want solar IMO its garbage and saving your electric bill I dont think so atleast in my case my home is 3100 square feet my electric bill is 180-190 dollars a month when I had the house built 22 years ago I upgraded windows and the insulation back then the highest bill we ever had was 96 dollars it was usaull y 70-80 dollars and yes its all electric.I for one would never want 6 workers on my roof at the same time putting bolts into my roof

 

[Sneakers]

Oh I absolutely think SOMETHING weird is happening. What I SUSPECT however, is a very faulty measuring. I just don't see HOW that much electric is being used.

There is something called a 'multiplier' which is a factor used to double or triple the KWH used. For homes, it's rarely a number other than 1. You might check that. It should be on the bill.