F-35...getting more bad press lately.

[Gilligan]

Recently saw an article about the Navy wanting to "skip" the F-35 and rely on their F-18 and F-22s while pursuing research in a "next generation" aircraft.

And today, this:

http://thefederalist.com/2015/02/25/dear-gop-big-governments-problems-extend-to-defense-spending/#.VO3E1Rihos4.twitter

 

[blacklabman]

Can't operate F-22s on carriers!

 

[Hijinx]

Recently saw an article about the Navy wanting to "skip" the F-35 and rely on their F-18 and F-22s while pursuing research in a "next generation" aircraft.

And today, this:

http://thefederalist.com/2015/02/25/dear-gop-big-governments-problems-extend-to-defense-spending/#.VO3E1Rihos4.twitter

But but but the contractors are making big bucks.
I don't venture to say what is wrong with the F-35 program I am not an expert , but the Blackbird flew in the 50's without near so many problems.
It's been one problem after another. They fix one and another crops up.
It looks like Drones will take over in a few years and kids who are now playing video games will be flying them.

Is it really worth tossing all of this money into a plane that just does not appear to be fixable?
Just to keep the contractors happy?

 

[SG_Player1974]

The F-35 WILL happen! Getting out of it now would put HUGE political and financial egg on our face due to the international partnerships.

 

[Gilligan]

Can't operate F-22s on carriers!

The F-18s seem to be doing a fine job though...

 

[Hijinx]

The F-35 WILL happen! Getting out of it now would put HUGE political and financial egg on our face due to the international partnerships.

You are right I believe.

We are in too deep to get out.

 

[Gilligan]

Still a lot of hurdles..and uncertainty. Both here and abroad.


http://aviationweek.com/defense/j-10b-f-35-nearing-service-debuts

 

[DynaDink]

You all forget the P-8. That thing is nothing but an overpriced airliner. But wait, it's built by Boeing therefore it will be tested forever(V-22) and maybe after twenty or so years, it will finally be able to do what it's predecessor has done for 50 plus years.

 

[NTNG]

You all forget the P-8. That thing is nothing but an overpriced airliner. But wait, it's built by Boeing therefore it will be tested forever(V-22) and maybe after twenty or so years, it will finally be able to do what it's predecessor has done for 50 plus years.

C-130: In service since 1956, still being tested. C-2: In service since 1965. Still being tested. E-2: In service since 1964. Still being tested. So, aircraft being tested 20 years after in service to the fleet is not unusual. Yes, it is built on a 737 airframe. The P-3 was developed from the L-188 Electra Airliner.
The P-8 entered service in 2013, and yes, will continue to be tested. There are known deficiencies in it's mission completion ability however tactics can be revised based on the aircrafts abilities and lessons learned...

 

[glhs837]

So, Dyna, your exposure is what? P-8s done what, two operational deployments so far, with the third underway? You do understand how incremental acquisition works, right? And you do know the P-3 wasn't Gods gift to ASW right out the box, right? 50 years ago, it was a new bird trying match the capabilities its predecessor had. The P-2 guys thought it was an overpriced converted airliner......... Face it takes time to field systems these days. Takes time for new platforms to mature. At one time, the Tomcat guys and Prowler guys thought the F-18 was the biggest POS ever purchased. It's the nature of things.

 

[Gilligan]

I'm a strong proponent of active and robust military R&D and whatever it takes to maintain our lead in capabilities, but.....for its whopping price tag, I'm not seeing the value in the F-35. I'm also worried about the historical fact that all previous attempts to build an airframe that all services would use have largely failed. The F-35 program is so massive that it sucks all the oxygen out of the defense budget...


I'm not a big fan of some other questionable big-ticket acquisitions either...like DDG-1000...so I'm not picking on the F-35.

 

[glhs837]

I'm a strong proponent of active and robust military R&D and whatever it takes to maintain our lead in capabilities, but.....for its whopping price tag, I'm not seeing the value in the F-35. I'm also worried about the historical fact that all previous attempts to build an airframe that all services would use have largely failed. The F-35 program is so massive that it sucks all the oxygen out of the defense budget...


I'm not a big fan of some other questionable big-ticket acquisitions either...like DDG-1000...so I'm not picking on the F-35.

I agree, like any swiss army knife owner knows, a knife that's also a saw, and a nail file, and a pair of scissors, well, it's usually not much of a knife.

 

[Gilligan]

I agree, like any swiss army knife owner knows, a knife that's also a saw, and a nail file, and a pair of scissors, well, it's usually not much of a knife.

I was rather disappointed to learn how the stealth concerns compromised the design to the extent they have. The internal weapons bay can't carry squat, apparently...... Meanwhile...countries like China have developed new and effective means of detecting even the most stealthy of aircraft at distances exceeding 300 miles.

 

[glhs837]

I was rather disappointed to learn how the stealth concerns compromised the design to the extent they have. The internal weapons bay can't carry squat, apparently...... Meanwhile...countries like China have developed new and effective means of detecting even the most stealthy of aircraft at distances exceeding 300 miles.

Not sure how many Chinese capability press releases I would swallow whole. I think back to the MIG-25 and how terrifying it was supposed to be, til we got our hands on one. As for what it can carry internally, some of that comes back to what you need it what phase. Stealth strikes on infrastructure targets, keeping in mind the ability to pinpoint targets, you might not need to carpet bomb.

 

[Gilligan]

Of course I think we should still have P-51s and Spads with rockets under the wings.

 

[SG_Player1974]

You all forget the P-8. That thing is nothing but an overpriced airliner. But wait, it's built by Boeing therefore it will be tested forever(V-22) and maybe after twenty or so years, it will finally be able to do what it's predecessor has done for 50 plus years.

So... how long you been working on the 'ole P-3?

I suggest you start studying your P-8. It is coming soon.

 

[Pete]

But but but the contractors are making big bucks.
I don't venture to say what is wrong with the F-35 program I am not an expert , but the Blackbird flew in the 50's without near so many problems.
It's been one problem after another. They fix one and another crops up.
It looks like Drones will take over in a few years and kids who are now playing video games will be flying them.

Is it really worth tossing all of this money into a plane that just does not appear to be fixable?
Just to keep the contractors happy?

The SR-71 did not have to comply with the Acquisition nightmare we have now.

 

[Pete]

You all forget the P-8. That thing is nothing but an overpriced airliner. But wait, it's built by Boeing therefore it will be tested forever(V-22) and maybe after twenty or so years, it will finally be able to do what it's predecessor has done for 50 plus years.

Nothing works 100% perfectly out of the gate. This is why they have incremental or spiral production.

 

[Pete]

The F-18s seem to be doing a fine job though...

Of course when the F/A-18 came out everyone hated it in favor of the Tomcat. Since then there are now how many versions? A, B, C/D and E/F?

 

[Pete]

I'm a strong proponent of active and robust military R&D and whatever it takes to maintain our lead in capabilities, but.....for its whopping price tag, I'm not seeing the value in the F-35. I'm also worried about the historical fact that all previous attempts to build an airframe that all services would use have largely failed. The F-35 program is so massive that it sucks all the oxygen out of the defense budget...


I'm not a big fan of some other questionable big-ticket acquisitions either...like DDG-1000...so I'm not picking on the F-35.

Is the overall price tag of F-35 equal to the cost of the USAF, USN and USMC all developing their own aircraft?