F-35...getting more bad press lately.

SG_Player1974

New Member
You must be new. I've been on easily a half dozen military development programs (I'm old...) that were heavily pegged on "international partners" that failed to get there. That factor is far weaker than you seem to think it is.

#1 - Is there ANYTHING that you don't have experience in? I have never encountered someone who has done just about every job in every single area of employment as you. You seem to have experience in every aspect of human employment! Or, at least you seem to indicate that in posts on here. :coffee:

#2 - I wasn't saying that it is impossible to dump the program. It is just far more difficult in this situation. Also... rarely have there been so many vested interests in one program as this one, but I am sure you knew that from experience right?
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
#1 - Is there ANYTHING that you don't have experience in? I have never encountered someone who has done just about every job in every single area of employment as you. You seem to have experience in every aspect of human employment! Or, at least you seem to indicate that in posts on here. :coffee:

#2 - I wasn't saying that it is impossible to dump the program. It is just far more difficult in this situation. Also... rarely have there been so many vested interests in one program as this one, but I am sure you knew that from experience right?

28 years of marine engineering on probably 20 different ship or craft programs, many of them foreign navy and/or joint US/foreign navy. 3 years as a propulsion engineer, rockets, before that. Machinist before that. I'm old. Don't worry, you'll get here too. :buddies:
 

SG_Player1974

New Member
28 years of marine engineering on probably 20 different ship or craft programs, many of them foreign navy and/or joint US/foreign navy. 3 years as a propulsion engineer, rockets, before that. Machinist before that.

How do you put any of that to good use when you average like 11 posts per day..... 365 days a year... on this forum? :howdy:
 

Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
See, I think this is one of those things that we've gotten wrong for generations; on the one hand, we got it right to constantly upgrade and rebuild airframes that were otherwise serviceable. On the other, cars and trucks where we just junk the whole thing and start new, over and over, instead of doing upgrades and so forth. The point being, better to have all those skilled mechanics and technicians and let the new parts and components support engineering and only change the basic stuff when there is a true leap instead of having what we have now; a huge lack of skilled mechanics replaced by a bunch of people on assembly lines that don't know jack #### past their immediate buttons.

We haven't lost that capability, its just that as ac age we spend more and more time and money repairing them. Just like your car at some point you end up spending more to fix it than a payment on a new one. The depots (FRCs) aren't going anywhere. F-35 will still need major maintenance. The assembly line folks are separate from and do not replace, the maintainers
 

SG_Player1974

New Member
11 posts...lets say 1 minute per post. You do the math.

Ha! .... because I am sure you are only on here to submit your post and then off you go! :killingme

They say the average community forum member is on the forum for ~15-20 minutes per post they make. You can go ahead and do that math.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
We haven't lost that capability, its just that as ac age we spend more and more time and money repairing them. Just like your car at some point you end up spending more to fix it than a payment on a new one. The depots (FRCs) aren't going anywhere. F-35 will still need major maintenance. The assembly line folks are separate from and do not replace, the maintainers

I get that but that becomes a national policy issue; better to promote the general welfare via working stuff longer or more towards the new? Balance. And the economic decision, 'cheaper to take on new car payment' is misleading because there is MUCH behind that; national economic policy, special interests and so forth. It's not a 'hey! It is straightforward cheaper to buy new than fix old!" We tend to MAKE it this way or that due to behind the scenes interests that may well not be in the national interest nor in terms of promoting the general welfare. Policy will encourage one direction, new, and discourage another, maintenance and repair. We don't replace the washer or the dryer or the heat pump, water heater, TV, every 2-3 years. Folks hope to get at least 10 if not more years out of a major appliances. We can certainly make it so keeping a car in good shape for 10 plus years is economical. I mean, imagine the mining we WON'T do if a car and truck was kept in good shape for, say, 15 years or even 20. So, there is the environment issue as well.

New car folks want to sell new cars.
Miners want to mine.
Steel makers want to make steel.

But, at what overall cost including what is lost in terms of quality of life for we, the people?
 

Midnightrider

Well-Known Member
I get that but that becomes a national policy issue; better to promote the general welfare via working stuff longer or more towards the new? Balance. And the economic decision, 'cheaper to take on new car payment' is misleading because there is MUCH behind that; national economic policy, special interests and so forth. It's not a 'hey! It is straightforward cheaper to buy new than fix old!" We tend to MAKE it this way or that due to behind the scenes interests that may well not be in the national interest nor in terms of promoting the general welfare. Policy will encourage one direction, new, and discourage another, maintenance and repair. We don't replace the washer or the dryer or the heat pump, water heater, TV, every 2-3 years. Folks hope to get at least 10 if not more years out of a major appliances. We can certainly make it so keeping a car in good shape for 10 plus years is economical. I mean, imagine the mining we WON'T do if a car and truck was kept in good shape for, say, 15 years or even 20. So, there is the environment issue as well.

New car folks want to sell new cars.
Miners want to mine.
Steel makers want to make steel.

But, at what overall cost including what is lost in terms of quality of life for we, the people?

No doubt its a 'big picture' issue, but we aren't replacing planes that are 2-3 years old. A lot of those are 20-30 years old. Even the newer F18 e/f fleet is working on half its expected live already.
We can certainly argue if its needed right now and if the 35 is the right solution. But I think the need is there, either today or in the very near future.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
No doubt its a 'big picture' issue, but we aren't replacing planes that are 2-3 years old. A lot of those are 20-30 years old. Even the newer F18 e/f fleet is working on half its expected live already.
We can certainly argue if its needed right now and if the 35 is the right solution. But I think the need is there, either today or in the very near future.

I'm sorry I'm kinda floating about here from subject to subject; I get it that the A/C (does that make me pseudo kewl? LOL) ARE old. I was trying to bridge that example to autos and trucks. In an unexpected way, the government program, the m/r, the updates, making something last, is the better policy than the 'market' solution of constant new and, to that point, I wanted to argue that that, the 'market' demands are 'market' only in so far as political favor has made them so, thus not market in any meaningful sense.

So, I think it in the national interest to have cars and trucks far more like A/C. Fix 'em, update 'em, retain skilled people who are doing a lot more than pushing buttons on an assembly line :buddies:
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
The F-18 is certainly not "old" when you consider that new ones roll of the assembly line all the time. Boeing reportedly expects to keep the assembly lines for the F-18 until at least 2020.
 

Merlin99

Visualize whirled peas
PREMO Member
Betcha he can't grow a decent poesy...


:evil:

You go to a plastic surgeon and the build one for you, it involves turning mr. winky inside out. By the way, that's the most unusual spelling of that I've ever seen. I just call it a hooha
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
See, I think this is one of those things that we've gotten wrong for generations; on the one hand, we got it right to constantly upgrade and rebuild airframes that were otherwise serviceable. On the other, cars and trucks where we just junk the whole thing and start new, over and over, instead of doing upgrades and so forth.


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