Feed the terrorists!

[Frank]

I don't know about *after* Sept 11. I know a few things. The shots they showed on TV were prior to the bombing. And that we sent them a lot of food and supplies earlier this year. One of them being sent in May to the tune of 53 million. It's not as though we 'suddenly' got this idea to give Afghanis food. They've been suffering for *decades*.

 

[pilot]

One of the reasons we give aid to foreign countries is out of practical self-interest: it might make us some friends we can use later on.  For example, if our special forces units are going to be crawling around Afghanistan, I bet they could really use some help from friendly locals who know the terrain.  It's possible that some of these people could decide they like us more than the Taliban, since at least we feed them.

I have no idea whether or not this aid is actually getting to the right people, as I, myself, have not visited the area to be a witness, and I don't claim to be an expert.  But I would be willing to bet my hard earned money that our administration expects a solid return on their investment.  Sooner or later, the bill will come in...




(Edited by pilot at 10:46 pm on Oct. 2, 2001)

 

[gojugin]

Frank.....

You stated "Think of the Taliban as Nazis"....

Ok... during WWII were we at war with the Nazi's or Germany?    We were at war with Germany.  It was Germany, the country, which supported the Nazi regime.
The same holds true for Afghanistan.  They support the Taliban (nazi's).  
It should be up to the Afghanistan government to rid/cleanse such Nazi's from their country... but they do not.  

 

[gojugin]

Pilot.... without a doubt you are correct.  Sending food, money, and so forth to foreign countries is seen as an investment.  How many brokers would keep investing in poor stocks or stocks that give no return/loss?  NONE!
We are losing our shirts on these "poor" investments.
And as you stated "the bill will come in..."
Who pays the bill?  The good old US of A.
There is "smart" investment and stupid investment.
Billions of our dollars are handed over and given away without carefull thought.  
Would you rather invest in Saudi Arabia or Afghanistan?
Which would give us the best return?  Duh!  
It appears that the USA invests in countries "hoping" they will be our friend.  Doesn't always work that way.
These countries need to show us what they have to offer us for our investment.  What do we get out of it besides handing over more money, terrorists or not paying us back.

 

[pilot]

gojugin,

I'm just curious:  how do you know that some of these people in Afghanistan are NOT helping us right now?  You know, giving us all sorts of useful information?  Helping special forces units gather intelligence?  Maybe helping to track down Bin Ladin?  

I just read today that they may have narrowed in on his location.  Wonder how we got that information?  Satellites don't exactly see into caves. I also heard that his exact location is hard to pinpoint because it's being kept secret even from the locals.  Now, I wonder why that could be?  Could it be because the Taliban is worried that some of these locals just might be interested in cooperating with us?  Hmmm....

From what I've been reading in the newspapers, people in Aghanistan are starting rebel against the Taliban and many have been coming forward to offer their assistance.

It seems to me that we are getting a return on our investment.  Do you have specific evidence to the contrary?

Just because you keep repeating ad nauseum that we're not getting something back in return doesn't make it so.



(Edited by pilot at 7:44 pm on Oct. 3, 2001)

 

[Frank]

The difference in Nazi Germany was that the German people PUT them in power. A lot of the Taliban aren't even Afghanis, nor of course is bin Laden himself. They seized power by force, and UNLIKE Nazi Germany, they're *still* in the middle of civil war, as they have been for four years. Support the Taliban? With what? These people have the lowest standard of living on the face of the earth. The Russians only left ten years ago, only to pave the way open for even more war. *We* call them Afghans - they actually use the term to describe foreign interlopers. They are Uzbeks and Tajiks and Punjits and a few others I can't spell. National boundaries do not define their loyalties.

*Billions* overseas? They wish. We're talking a few hundred million. Seems like a lot, until you figure in that Congress spends about that much every forty minutes. They have a budget of around 3 trillion. This is comparable to you saying that 2 or 3 dollars will make you go broke. Pocket change. But it sure can buy a LOT of good will. It can also buy *allies*. Wars throughout the world have been won without bullets, and WITH propaganda, with counterfeit money, with misinformation, and so on. I think it's not too much to spare some pocket change for someone who is starving, and is ruled by someone they haven't the strength - yet - to overthrow.

You don't seem to see what you ought to be very much aware of - that many of these nations aren't one people. No more than the Kurds in Turkey and Iraq, or the Shiite Muslims in the south of Iraq. Iran sees the rebels in Afghanistan as their ally, because they too are trying to kick out the Taliban. What do they know that we don't?

 

[pilot]

(Edited by pilot at 8:03 pm on Oct. 3, 2001)

 

[gojugin]

Ok... I surrender!  
Feed the Afghanistani people...
Give them guns, ammo, food, everything and anything they want!  Feed the Taliban too.  

I can not believe that so many americans are on the side of the Afghanistan, especially after what has happened and will happen.
What ever happened to all this "God Bless America" and flag waving stuff.... or was everyone singing God Bless Afghanistan and I thought they said america.

I give up...  Praise Alah!

 

[hartline]

I sorry, I do not understand your heartlessness. Because some crack pots blew up the WTC we are supposed to stand by while 2.5 million mostly innocent people starve to death.. "That's not what America is all about!" The President asked my kids to send a buck to the White House. I put them to work that night earning a dollar each and made my 7 year old address the envelope. If we teach our kids to hate at a young age we are no better than them. Yes, I hate the terrorist and want to see them dead, but killing 2 million by slow starvation to get a few thousand terrorist is not an acceptable solution.   GOD BLESS AMERICA

 

[vraiblonde]

And, see, there's the paradox.  We want to teach our children to be compassionate and caring about the world around them.  But we're not starving those people - their own government is doing that!

So, Hartline, while I feel that we're wasting our money and energy sending food to people who really don't appreciate it, I <i>do</i> applaud your efforts to teach your children to give to those less fortunate.

 

[BigBrothaCon]

I agree with Vraiblonde!

Hartline-Your compassion for these people are heartfelt, but I can't see making my kids send money to the ungrateful Afghanis or whatever you want to call them and not send money to the impoverished children around the US.  Yeah, the Afghanis are starving but so are Americans.  About 10,000 kids lost a father, mother, or both with the terrorists attacks,  I'd rather see them get some money or aid rather than send it to the ingrates.  I feel sorry for their people, but my fellow Americans come first not the other way around.

 

[PmoneyandTT]

Im not saying anything about this topic - other than the American's that lost their parents in WTC and Pentagon plane crashes - they will be giving money - full paid college tuition - Supplements will be provided to our children.. That 40 billion dollars isn't just for war - its to help "US" americans who were directly attacked with losing a love d one.. The media puts out alot of garbage.. Some of its true other things are not.. I know a bit about what Justice roll in this whole budget - we do it.. But I can't disclose any information - only to say - American Kids are getting theirs.. Im sure what Bush is doing - comes from his beliefs in his faith.. He is only a man - Everyone can't agree - As a small group of posters - we can't either.. Its very tricky with the whole budget things.. These terrorist have been around for years - Its ashame that we had to wait until now to do something.. Those people were starving before - why the attempt now?  If it came from true meaning - then why weren't they fed before.. Maybe they were - Us American's didn't care because we didn't see it - they didn't bomb or country.. I have the same feelings about everything - like a year ago.. We should of squashed this back in 90-99 - but now its in our face - so we want to go on this rampage.. Noticed no one ever talked to much about this until Sept 11.. We American's have this attitude - We don't see the bad guy - then we think there's no bad guy.. So Im as patriot as I was last year.. I don't need a flag to represent my loyality in this country.. It took 6,000 plus people to die - in order to wake people up.. I remember going to baseball games - half the people wouldn't even stand up for the National Athem - now they break their necks.. Threat really wakes people up..

 

[Frank]

" Those people were starving before - why the attempt now?  If it came from true meaning - then why weren't they fed before.. "

????
We DID. In fact, most of the news of this until the bombing started was about the relief that was sent last *spring*. They've only started broadcasting this stuff because of the airdrops, but relief workers have been in Afghanistan over the last two years of their drought.

Actually what I'd read this summer was confusion over whether the relief we sent was an attempt to curtail their heroin production - basically, buying them off. It wasn't unitl it was disclosed that it was mostly in the form of food, that the rumor-mongering stopped.

 

[Frank]

" Those people were starving before - why the attempt now?  If it came from true meaning - then why weren't they fed before.. "

????
We DID. In fact, most of the news of this until the bombing started was about the relief that was sent last *spring*. They've only started broadcasting this stuff because of the airdrops, but relief workers have been in Afghanistan over the last two years of their drought.

Actually what I'd read this summer was confusion over whether the relief we sent was an attempt to curtail their heroin production - basically, buying them off. It wasn't unitl it was disclosed that it was mostly in the form of food, that the rumor-mongering stopped.

 

[BigBrothaCon]

PmoneyandTT

Before 9/11 we were sending millions of dollars already in food and aid.  Only now is it being advertised in the media.  I believe Americans do not notice things that go on around the world until the news media shows it on TV.  That is why you have to stay proactive in reading what goes on in the world.  Don't just wait until we have a crisis to get educated on matters international.  Stay on top of these things.  If it is not important to you, it might be beneficial to your kids or nieces.  They are in school are'nt they?  Current events nationally and internationally are very important aspects of civics and government.  Read up!

 

[PmoneyandTT]

Nowhere did I say I didn't know these things.. Please read my postings before making any points.. Im saying now that things are going on - people are more aware.. It seems to me that "others" not neccessary on this forum - didn't know that AFGAns weren't already getting some type of money or food.. What I was pointing out was "we are saying we shouldn't feed them" why weren't people saying that 2 years ago or a year ago.. Now that they are aware - its don't feed them..

I quess on my part I feel dumb founded that I thought the planes were really secured - and they actually are not.. But remember before you go off the deep end with that - we discussed that before..

 

[BigBrothaCon]

Pmoney

You ask why are we worried about the aid for Afghanistan now being that we were not worried about it 2 years ago.  Well let me tell you, I have always been a Republican and moderately conservative.  Over the years I have become more conservative.  I have never agreed with nation-building and money for friends programs.  They ultimately don't work long term and we have enough social-economic problems within our own nation.  I am more of a nationalist in thought and I believe we have to fix alot of the infrastructural problems that exist in our urban areas.  The thing is that I have always believed that and because of 9/11, this topic of foreign aid and compensation has come up more now than in previous years.  I cannot speak for everyone, but for me I have always been an antagonist against nation-building, aid for friends programs, and active involvement in the middle east peace process.  We send billions overseas and we do not have an efficient transportation system.  We send billions overseas and we have a huge immigration problem.  We send billions overseas and we have huge urban decay within our sprawling cities.  Trillions of dollars move throughout this economy fluently on a daily basis and we have kids on our streets who have no family and nothing to eat.  These things have existed for many decades and I have to ask myself why?  I should not go out and feed my neighbors without first feeding my children.  I would be out of order within my family and I might even go to jail for neglect.  So why should the government of the United States be any different?  People keep saying that our kids are going to be taken care of in this country due to the current catastrophes.  Well, I have been hearing that lie for as long as I have been alive.  I believe the U.S. government is out of order on these issues and have been since the union was created.

 

[PmoneyandTT]

If the shoe didn't fit - then why are you worried about trying to wear it.. I know that you are well aware of these issues.. I have to hear them all the time.. Maybe you should think about becoming something more political and get your views on the forefront.. Im sure your not the only person who feels this way on the hill.. Do you know anyone that is against these issue you have pointed out - that is currently on the hill? What about all the christian based programs that feed the children overseas?  What about the missionaries that go overseas to teach the Word of God - is it their obligation to just teach the word - and not care for them?  When do you draw the line?  Question - you are walking down in DC - you have enough money to buy your family food - get home - and still have money left over.. A homeless person comes up to you.. Would you ignore them?  Offer to buy them some food?  Things should be changed in the federal government - but where do you start.. Actually the feds are so indepth with mess - Im surprised they can breathe half the time..

 

[AnonymousPenguin]

I don't see any prob with U.S. sending supplies to other nations in the past.  However, I do personally see a problem with sending food to Afghanistan when we are in war with the people of that nation.  Afghanistan is harboring the terrorists that attacked us...why the hec should we help them??  I am not saying we shouldn't...it's nice and all.  If it was up to me... I wouldn't do it.  In any case, I don't feel that U.S. is doing this for their sake...we are doing it for our sake.  Come on...what sense does it make to drop missiles and food into the same country at the same time!!...  When I saw that on the news, I laughed...it was hilarious...all I could do was crack up.  We have helped them in the past...but now we are helping them more...going thru more just to get it done...we are doing it to make a point.  America has a reputation to hold...we don't want to be looked at as the bad guys in the future for retaliating...so...we are going to perform good deeds to the country while we are retaliating.

As far as the people in this country that our hungry.  One thing that makes this country different from many others is <i>opportunity</i>.  We forget how much we have here sometimes.  Anyone who is not disabled or elderly....can work in this country...they can feed themselves doing something...whatever they have to do...  There is no excuse why anyone here should go hungry unless they are disabled/elderly/children.  However, situations in other nations are not the same...they don't have the opportunity that we have...so they <b>need</b> help.  <i>Most</i> of the people here don't <b>need</b> help.  Again, it is nice of America to do this for all the poor people in the world.  However, don't fool yourself by thinking that all this is done in pure kindness.  America has a certain image.  America is viewed as the "greatest country in the world."  There is a reason why we have this image...  our way of life is different from most.   We have to maintain this image.

BB, civics and government?  I got a emoticon to represent my reaction... !!!!      ...

 

[BigBrothaCon]

Very funny AP!  Many people happen to enjoy government and civics.  Anyway, I understand the opportunity aspect and you are right. Nobody should be starving in America, but the fact of the matter is that there is many children/elderly/disabled that are.  That is why I only addressed the children and no one else because their opportunities are unequal to a grown adult man or woman.  Elderly should always be taken care of as well as the disabled.  That is why we have social security.  That is why I pay more to social security than I pay to general tax revenues to keep these people stable.  My biggest concern is the children.  We do not do enough for our homeless and poor children.  I agree with you on not sending aid to Afghanistan.  We are at war with that country and we need to act like it.  the Afghans have had many opportunities to become more democratic and less repressive, but they chose otherwise.  I know all of the food we are dropping over there is not getting to the people who really need it anyway and they are also complaining about getting it in the first place so if they want to starve, ohh well!

Pmoney

To answer your question about the homeless in D.C.-  No I probably would not give the bum anything because I don't believe in handouts, but I might take him somewhere to eat if I am alone without my family.  I am more concerned about the children though because the lazy bums in D.C. have every opportunity to change in this country.  There is no excuse for anyone able enough to do for themselves.  I do not expect anyone to give me a handout because I am able through God to do for myself.