Folks, There Could Still Be A Draft!

[Pete]

Times have certainly changed, that's for sure.

I went in after you and I think even then “bodily harm” meant you left in an ambulance because I certainly remember getting an attitude adjustment of a physical nature on more than one occasion and no one batted an eye. Then again I never thought of complaining about it higher up the chain either. It might not have been allowed but it was definitely employed.

When I went the only thing that was off limits was them smacking you, but you still wondered. Many a time I wished they would have just punched me and gotten it over with.

 

[Ken King]

When I went the only thing that was off limits was them smacking you, but you still wondered. Many a time I wished they would have just punched me and gotten it over with.

I got popped in the back of the head several times, kicked in the backside once, and then picked up by the front of the shirt and shaken like a rag doll conviently bouncing off all four walls of the Drill Instructors office before being launched out the closed door. The last one was when I refused to let the senior NCO for the unit into the barracks for not presenting proper military ID. I think it had to do with me saying to him "I don't care who the #### you are I am not letting anyone in with an ID signed Mickey Mouse." Good sentry, poor verbage.

 

[Penn]

I got popped in the back of the head several times, kicked in the backside once, and then picked up by the front of the shirt and shaken like a rag doll conviently bouncing off all four walls of the Drill Instructors office before being launched out the closed door. The last one was when I refused to let the senior NCO for the unit into the barracks for not presenting proper military ID. I think it had to do with me saying to him "I don't care who the #### you are I am not letting anyone in with an ID signed Mickey Mouse." Good sentry, poor verbage.

They always tried that $h!t with us! We had to have someone pull CQ every night, and while they didn't pull that on us constantly, there were a few times that they's send a guy over with no ID, or an ID that didn't match the nametag ribbon above his uniform pocket.
He would rant and rave, out there, kick the locked frontdoor, swear at us as bad as the seaman, but we knew damn well if we let an unauthorized person into our dorm, there'd be hell to pay.

I got kicked in the butt for "bouncing up and down" while we were marching, and it was the only time I ever got whacked.

The stories I heard about punishment was that if the drill instructors found you next to your standup clothes locker, and you accidently "fell into" that locker, and it "accidently" closed on you, you might just go for a ride, down the stairway and out the backdoors, which were conveniently open!

 

[Bruzilla]

I was reading this string shortly after talking to my sales manager, who had just told us what the new bonuses were going to be. He said something that I think applies to this discussion but has been missed. He said "Where much is given, much is expected."

I think our kids should be required to perform some form of national service during their lives, and a post-high school/pre-employment period seems the best time to me.

 

[Penn]

I was reading this string shortly after talking to my sales manager, who had just told us what the new bonuses were going to be. He said something that I think applies to this discussion but has been missed. He said "Where much is given, much is expected."

I think our kids should be required to perform some form of national service during their lives, and a post-high school/pre-employment period seems the best time to me.

On the face of it, it doesn't sound like a bad idea. I'm thinking about a 2 year stiint myself. But as some others have said, a lot has changed since the days we went to Basic Training, and then on to a techniical school, preparing you for whatever carreer you'd been placed in, or if you were lucky, the one you wanted in the first place.
There had always been someone in my family, uncle, cousin, father or grandfather, that had been in the services, and it was an accepted history; it was something that was passed down through stories, ie., "war stories", but we'd get "the picture"
I'm not sure if today's kids are more "hardheaded" then us at the time, or whether it's the lack of parental guidance from lackidasical(sp) adults, but a few of us are concerned about whether it's worth the effort to extend some kind of training to these juveniles in the face of the hostilities they exhibit.
Given, that some kind of weapons training might be afforded, it might give you pause, putting a loaded firearm into some of these kids hands.

Would there be anything real accomplished? That's a big question, I suppose.

 

[Bruzilla]

I think that a good macro view of this argument can be seen in how the United States and Spain reacted to a terrorist attack. The US sought revenge and directly attacked those who were behind the attack. Spain did the exact opposite... they elected the man most likely not to punch the schoolyard bully in the face. Why was that?

I think it's because the Spanish people have lived a life of peace and security under the umbrella of NATO. Their kids never had to suffer or risk attack, much like our kids. They don't view sacrifice and duty to country as something they owe America, rather they look at threats like the Spanish do... if we make peace with the Devil, he'll overlook us.

 

[Penn]

I think it's because the Spanish people have lived a life of peace and security under the umbrella of NATO. Their kids never had to suffer or risk attack, much like our kids. They don't view sacrifice and duty to country as something they owe America, rather they look at threats like the Spanish do... if we make peace with the Devil, he'll overlook us.

I agree, and is that ever a wrong-headed approach to take!?! They think they can appease these terrorist groups by 1) pulling their troops out of the Iraqi conflict, 2) thereby posing no threat to these groups.
I think they're whistling with their hands folded behind their backs, hoping it'll work out for them.
What they don't get is that the terrorists will next try the same ploy against other countries in the coalition forces in Iraq, until they can get yet another country to drop out of it.
Is that going to guarrantee the terrorists will stop blowing themselves up, and killing innocent people in one of these countries? I do not think so; they're playing for time, and they've got plenty of it to harm the rest of society.

 

[mAlice]

I do not deny that the military life could possibly turn some of these kids around and really be good for them, but without them wanting that change I don’t see it as being a good idea. Like they say you can lead a horse to water but you can’t make it drink.

This is why I was asking, why the draft is an issue. I don't feel we should have a draft, but I do think we should lower the standards for entry. There are kids out there who have made some poor dicisions and now realizing that, they want to turn their lives around. They look to the military to do that, and they can't get in.

Just a theory, but many of the kids they're pushing through basic are bookworms. It's not their nature to fight, and with our now PC military, they may not become fighters. Not that this is bad, but we have a less well rounded military by being so picky about who gets to play. Inner city kids are natural fighters. It's part of who they are to be aggressive, and possibly kill.

Just a thought.

 

[Penn]

This is why I was asking, why the draft is an issue. I don't feel we should have a draft, but I do think we should lower the standards for entry. There are kids out there who have made some poor dicisions and now realizing that, they want to turn their lives around. They look to the military to do that, and they can't get in.

Just a theory, but many of the kids they're pushing through basic are bookworms. It's not their nature to fight, and with our now PC military, they may not become fighters. Not that this is bad, but we have a less well rounded military by being so picky about who gets to play. Inner city kids are natural fighters. It's part of who they are to be aggressive, and possibly kill.

Just a thought.

Good thoughts, elaine.

The draft, at the moment it is being used as another political weapon by the dems against the Bush adminstration, to scare the pants off mom and dad out there, something to use to get votes from the undecided ones, who are still wavering on which candidate to go with.

The war in Iraq is not a popular war across the country, and I think the dems are playing on parents fears and emotions, just like they love to scare the Seniors half to death about Health Care and medication issues.

There was a bill introduced in the House, by a democrat, Charles Rangel(NY) in Jan 2003, HR163, the Universal National Security Act of 2003.

see:http://www.theorator.com/bills108/hr163.html

In it, ALL US citzens, between the ages 18 - 26 would have to perform some military or Homeland Security type of training for 2 years.

With the strong hint, or perception, the democrats like Kerry and Edwards have been using the last week or so, about the draft being likely reinstated by Bush, if he wins, the Republicans in the House declared well that's just peachy.

They brought (forced) this Bill up for a vote, and it was defeated 400 - 2.

So, now there isn't anything on the books before Congress for the liberals,
at this point to crow about, that they could use to point towards a draft reinstatment.

 

[mAlice]

I just have to say, after all the bashing I've seen the dems take on this board about poor behavior, that I was extremely tempted to take out a republican yesterday. What an azz.

We were at faire and had met a group of people who migrate every year to RF for a reunion, so to speak. Nice bunch of young adults, probably mid to late 20's. FB, being the generous person that he is, goes out to the truck to get cigars for these fine, young folks. So I sit and wait with the group, chatting with one of the fella's. Typical and true to form for any group gathering, there has to be one azzhole. Out of the blue, this girl walks up to me and asks me who I'm voting for. Trying to avoid a political conversation I tell her that my Captain doesn't allow me to vote. Then she momentarily goes off on this "you have the right to vote" crap...like I don't know this. Again, she asks me who I'm voting for. I tell her that politics is like religion and sex. Personal, and not good for polite conversation. Based on this answer, she automatically assumes I'm a democrat and lays into me. It got kind of nasty, for I'm not one to take insults lightly, especially from someone I don't know.

Her friends had to literally drag her away. What a Her friends apologized profusely for her actions and I walked away from the group, but stayed in the same area waiting for FB to return with the cigars. When he got back I told him what happened. A real shame, because he was going to have someone to smoke a stoagie with and shoot the breeze about cigars. He sold them his cigars and we walked away to enjoy the faire. When we came back to the same area later, the same group was there, minus one drunk republican. She ruined both her and her husbands day. He took her home.

I hope she has the hangover from hell today.

 

[Penn]

I just have to say, after all the bashing I've seen the dems take on this board about poor behavior, that I was extremely tempted to take out a republican yesterday. What an azz.

We were at faire and had met a group of people who migrate every year to RF for a reunion, so to speak. Nice bunch of young adults, probably mid to late 20's. FB, being the generous person that he is, goes out to the truck to get cigars for these fine, young folks. So I sit and wait with the group, chatting with one of the fella's.
Typical and true to form for any group gathering, there has to be one azzhole. Out of the blue, this girl walks up to me and asks me who I'm voting for. Trying to avoid a political conversation I tell her that my Captain doesn't allow me to vote. Then she momentarily goes off on this "you have the right to vote" crap...like I don't know this. Again, she asks me who I'm voting for. I tell her that politics is like religion and sex. Personal, and not good for polite conversation. Based on this answer, she automatically assumes I'm a democrat and lays into me. It got kind of nasty, for I'm not one to take insults lightly, especially from someone I don't know.

Her friends had to literally drag her away. What a Her friends apologized profusely for her actions and I walked away from the group, but stayed in the same area waiting for FB to return with the cigars. When he got back I told him what happened. A real shame, because he was going to have someone to smoke a stoagie with and shoot the breeze about cigars. He sold them his cigars and we walked away to enjoy the faire. When we came back to the same area later, the same group was there, minus one drunk republican. She ruined both her and her husbands day. He took her home.

I hope she has the hangover from hell today.

Obviously, there are zealots from both camps, but this chicky was way out of line.
I was going to inquire if she appeared to have been drunk, but you explained it your text. It figured if she couldn't take the hints you were giving her, that you'd rather not discuss the issue.

Talk about morons!

 

[dustin]

There will be no draft because there wont be any money to pay all those extra people...along with the retirees. We are already at the beginning of a future downsizing.

 

[Bruzilla]

Elaine, I must take issue with your comments that today's military members are bookworms without the will to fight. This is nowhere near the truth. The media loves to swarm around any service member who objects to going into combat, while ignoring hundreds of thousands who don't. Yeah, there are a few members who can't hack it, but that's been the same with military service since the Roman legions. To judge the heroic efforts of the very vast majority by the selfish actions of a few is wrong.

And Penn... "The war in Iraq is not a popular war across the country." Where are you getting that from? I live in a military town, with lots of family members in combat, and there is a ton of support for the war. Don't buy into the hype you hear on the news. Remember that most polls, especially news polls, aren't conducted in middle America, they are done in and near the cities that are overwhelmingly Democrat.

I work at a Ford dealership and meet people from all over Florida and Georgia, and I can tell you that I've met only one person who was opposed to the war, and 100s who thought it's a good thing.

 

[mAlice]

Elaine, I must take issue with your comments that today's military members are bookworms without the will to fight. This is nowhere near the truth. The media loves to swarm around any service member who objects to going into combat, while ignoring hundreds of thousands who don't. Yeah, there are a few members who can't hack it, but that's been the same with military service since the Roman legions. To judge the heroic efforts of the very vast majority by the selfish actions of a few is wrong.

I must take issue with you. That's not what I said.

 

[Tonio]

I went in after you and I think even then “bodily harm” meant you left in an ambulance because I certainly remember getting an attitude adjustment of a physical nature on more than one occasion and no one batted an eye. Then again I never thought of complaining about it higher up the chain either. It might not have been allowed but it was definitely employed.

When I was in high school and college I was desperately hoping there wouldn't be a draft. I wasn't concerned much about bad treatment from the DI. I was concerned more about bad treatment from my fellow soldiers. I imagined something like this:

DI: "Where's Pvt. Tonio?"
Solider: "Sir! Don't know! Sir!"
DI: "Bullshiat! Where is he?"
Soldier: "Sir! The whole unit dragged that pimply-faced loser out of his bunk at 3 a.m., carried him to a foxhole, stripped him, tied him up and threw him in, Sir!"

 

[Ken King]

When I was in high school and college I was desperately hoping there wouldn't be a draft. I wasn't concerned much about bad treatment from the DI. I was concerned more about bad treatment from my fellow soldiers. I imagined something like this:

DI: "Where's Pvt. Tonio?"
Solider: "Sir! Don't know! Sir!"
DI: "Bullshiat! Where is he?"
Soldier: "Sir! The whole unit dragged that pimply-faced loser out of his bunk at 3 a.m., carried him to a foxhole, stripped him, tied him up and threw him in, Sir!"

And why did you invision that they would do this to you?

 

[mAlice]

And why did you invision that they would do this to you?

He thinks everyone hates him.

 

[Tonio]

He thinks everyone hates him.

Give me some credit. I suspected it was something I was doing or not doing that was causing some people to be mean to me. Years later I learned that when you're shy and withdrawn, some people take that personally.

 

[Penn]

I imagined something like this:

DI: "Where's Pvt. Tonio?"
Solider: "Sir! Don't know! Sir!"
DI: "Bullshiat! Where is he?"
Soldier: "Sir! The whole unit dragged that pimply-faced loser out of his bunk at 3 a.m., carried him to a foxhole, stripped him, tied him up and threw him in, Sir!"

All I can say is, if you imagined it, it would seem to me that you have a persecution complex. I had a fight or two, when I was in basic training, mostly squabbling over how best to accomplish a certain task the DI had given us, with the instructions he had discribed.
There's no reason why a bunch of guys would gang up on you, unless you were a totally effed up, and to the rest of the unit, you might appear to be holding up the progress of their training.
Yes, we did have one or two like that; the DI told us this nerd would hold us back from graduating together as a class, either square him away, or we might have to extend that date by a few weeks. None of us wanted to spend a few more weeks in San Antonio -- in the middle of July!
So, we'd heard about a "GI Party", where the unsuspecting offender would be walking to his bunk, pitch dark in there, and 6 or 7 guys would grab him, throw a GI blanket over him, and pummel the he!! out of him, meanwhile exhorting him to change his attitude and/or ways.

Worked just fine. No, not really, he just learned to follow the "program" after that.

 

[Bruzilla]

Just a theory, but many of the kids they're pushing through basic are bookworms. It's not their nature to fight, and with our now PC military, they may not become fighters.

Sorry Elaine... it must have been someone else with an Elaine handle that wrote that.