For Those of You That Aren't Religious....

PsyOps

Pixelated
Your fear based belief system is bizarre. I absolutely reject your premise that I should fear God. God loves all of us, even those who do wrong, and wants us to do His will. Yes, there are consequences to the choices we make, but this idea that I must submit or be punished is no different than someone who beats a dog every time it isn't perfect and never rewards it for doing right. You end up with fearful people who are afraid to listen to God's will because they are too fearful of the fire and brimstone damnation coming from the pulpit.

Go head and be afraid, but don't tell me that I should be too.

The 'fear' that is talked about in 'fearing God' is not being afraid. It is committed respect. Sort of like how we fear nature. I'm not afraid of nature, but I know how powerful it is and I respect it and don't try to challenge it, because I know I will lose.
 
The 'fear' that is talked about in 'fearing God' is not being afraid. It is committed respect. Sort of like how we fear nature. I'm not afraid of nature, but I know how powerful it is and I respect it and don't try to challenge it, because I know I will lose.

Fear is the life blood of religion.
 

b23hqb

Well-Known Member
Your fear based belief system is bizarre. I absolutely reject your premise that I should fear God. God loves all of us, even those who do wrong, and wants us to do His will. Yes, there are consequences to the choices we make, but this idea that I must submit or be punished is no different than someone who beats a dog every time it isn't perfect and never rewards it for doing right. You end up with fearful people who are afraid to listen to God's will because they are too fearful of the fire and brimstone damnation coming from the pulpit.

Go head and be afraid, but don't tell me that I should be too.

Don't tell me you're ignorant. Did you even read my first, and only, sentence about fear? I would say with certainity you never got past the first eight words before going off. Cannot you comprehend what I said about it in the meaning of reverence and awe? How do you get being afraid out of that?

You have no idea what I said, and your answer perfectly reflects that.
 
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hotcoffee

New Member
Don't tell me you're ignorant. Did you even read my first, and only, sentence about fear? I would say with certainity you never got past the first eight words before going off. Cannot you comprehend what I said about it in the meaning of reverence and awe? How do you get being afraid out of that?

You have no idea what I said, and your answer perfectly reflects that.

Just to throw this in.... the meaning of the word fear had a different meaning if you look at the Greek translation and the Hebrew translation and then the English translation in 1400. Since the Bible was written in Greek or Hebrew [aramaic] and then translated in English.... I though that might be a good point to bring up.... fear meant revere originally....here's a link to the "fear" definition. For those of you who don't follow links... fear = "an unpleasant emotion caused by the belief that someone or something is dangerous, likely to cause pain, or a threat or be afraid of (someone or something) as likely to be dangerous, painful, or threatening." While revere ="feel deep respect or admiration for (something)"

I know this might shake a few more comments out of the thread.... but it helped me to understand why people kept telling me to "fear" God and God "loves me". Those two statements didn't seem to go together.

One of the links I went to talked about Adam fearing God because he knew he was naked. He respected God and he didn't want to explain what he and Eve had been up to.... that helps me out when I try to explain "fear God" because He loves you.

:coffee:
 

hotcoffee

New Member
But, but, but...that's what organized religion does. Tells the sheep what they have do. :shrug:

I'm not so sure it's telling the sheep what they "have" to do.... rather what they "should" do.... to be good sheep.

I don't trust churches much because some are really run by humans rather than God.

:coffee:
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
I couldn't agree more. Fear of eternal damnation for not "believing" is a powerful motivator for many in the world.

You agree with me, then immediately make a comment that doesn't agree with me. I think MOST humans have a real fear (being afraid) of dying and suffering. It's natural to have a fear of being in long-term pain. THAT is not the fear we're talking about here. Fear (the respect for) of God is not fear of eternal damnation. Some may be drawn to God out of the fear (afraid) of this eternal damnation; but when you come to God you develop and different fear (respect for) of God; and that not a fear that you are afraid of God that He will send you to hell; because THAT fear is gone. Once you start realizing who God is - the creator of all things, who knows every molecule inside and out, ever part of our being - a certain level of RESPECT (fear) that you can't even define happens.
 
You agree with me, then immediately make a comment that doesn't agree with me. I think MOST humans have a real fear (being afraid) of dying and suffering. It's natural to have a fear of being in long-term pain. THAT is not the fear we're talking about here. Fear (the respect for) of God is not fear of eternal damnation. Some may be drawn to God out of the fear (afraid) of this eternal damnation; but when you come to God you develop and different fear (respect for) of God; and that not a fear that you are afraid of God that He will send you to hell; because THAT fear is gone. Once you start realizing who God is - the creator of all things, who knows every molecule inside and out, ever part of our being - a certain level of RESPECT (fear) that you can't even define happens.

As an atheist, I do not believe in heaven, hell, angels, god, allah, or satan. If the beliefs of religious people give them comfort; good for them. If their religious belief system leads to wars, terrorism, hate, and intolerance, its bad for us all, including atheists.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
As an atheist, I do not believe in heaven, hell, angels, god, allah, or satan. If the beliefs of religious people give them comfort; good for them. If their religious belief system leads to wars, terrorism, hate, and intolerance, its bad for us all, including atheists.

Well, you can at least understand the concept of having fear for something, not in the sense of being afraid, but in the sense of respecting it? Nature! You're not afraid of it, but you respect it enough that if you screw around certain aspects of it, it may result in your harm or adverse results. You held a certain respect for your parents that if you didn't follow their orders there would be consequences. But you're not afraid of your parents. THAT is the fear we're talking about.

Anything and everything can be abused for evil reasons. Religion is certainly one of them. It’s not the religion or faith that causes these bad things; it is people with evil intentions to hijack those religions for evil purposes. It’s like guns. Guns aren’t bad. Guns in the hands of a good guy is a very good thing. Someone with evil intentions can use a gun to commit their evil. Religion in the hands of a good guy is a very good thing and very good things have happened with good people of faith. And I’d argue that more good people are people of faith than bad people. But we love to exploit the bad to disparage that thing (religion) as being the problem.
 
Well, you can at least understand the concept of having fear for something, not in the sense of being afraid, but in the sense of respecting it? Nature! You're not afraid of it, but you respect it enough that if you screw around certain aspects of it, it may result in your harm or adverse results. You held a certain respect for your parents that if you didn't follow their orders there would be consequences. But you're not afraid of your parents. THAT is the fear we're talking about.

What happens if you don't accept Jesus as your savior? It was the meek and mild Christ that brought hell into the equation in big way in the new testament. Use of coercion? Fear? You tell me. How could it not be? To suffer eternal torment in hell for not accepting the supposed Christ; quite a penalty wouldn't you say? And if you research past history of Christianity, I believe you will find 'fear' integral to the message.

Anything and everything can be abused for evil reasons. Religion is certainly one of them. It’s not the religion or faith that causes these bad things; it is people with evil intentions to hijack those religions for evil purposes. It’s like guns. Guns aren’t bad. Guns in the hands of a good guy is a very good thing. Someone with evil intentions can use a gun to commit their evil. Religion in the hands of a good guy is a very good thing and very good things have happened with good people of faith. And I’d argue that more good people are people of faith than bad people. But we love to exploit the bad to disparage that thing (religion) as being the problem.

Many Religions unfortunately provide the justification for violence based on their faith. While Islam is decidedly more prone to this, Christianity has been used in the past to murder millions, and is still prone to violent interpretations even today. The Abrahamic religions have been violent, bloodthirsty religions for the whole of their existence. Try Jainism, if you want a religion that has no violent underpinnings.
 

Baja28

Obama destroyed America
I'm not so sure it's telling the sheep what they "have" to do.... rather what they "should" do.... to be good sheep.

I don't trust churches much because some are really run by humans rather than God.

:coffee:
Fair enough. :buddies:

And for the record, I'm not a sheep. I have my beliefs and am a sheepdog. :smile:
 

hotcoffee

New Member
What happens if you don't accept Jesus as your savior?

For those who don't accept Jesus as their personal Savior, life won't change much. They'll go on in their ignorance of what life can be like with Christ as their Savior. When they pass away.... they will not have an eternal life of love and beauty. They'll go on in their ignorance of what life can be like to have a Savior to talk to or a Holy Spirit to guide them.

I saw a movie a long long long time ago. It depicted hell as living just on the other side of a magnificent river.... just out of reach of Christ and just out of reach of all the happiness of Heaven. The burning of Hell was their burning desire to be there.... to have joy and happiness. The Bible describes something much more horrible.... burning for eternity.... but even if it's just not being in Heaven.... that burning need of being happy for not just a short lifetime but for eternity would be hell.

Christians not only enjoy the promise of eternal Heaven.... they have the Holy Spirit and Prayer. I think, no I'll restate that, I know that there are times ahead when having that promise and having the Holy Spirit as a comforter can be the only good think in life [and death] that makes some things tolerable.

It's not just the promise of Heaven that sustains. I mean even the best children would get exhausted waiting for Christmas. It's the promise and the signs of the promise coming true that sustain smiles.

It was the meek and mild Christ that brought hell into the equation in big way in the new testament. Use of coercion? Fear? You tell me. How could it not be?

When a father corrects his son.... does he use coercion or fear or even a spanking? My father use to tell us what reward we would enjoy. I was also told what the consequences would be if I misbehaved. Sometimes the consequences seemed to be worth it..... other times the consequences were just not worth it. Look at Matthew 7:9-11.

Matthew 7:9 “Which of you, if your son asks for bread, will give him a stone? 10 Or if he asks for a fish, will give him a snake? 11 If you, then, though you are evil, know how to give good gifts to your children, how much more will your Father in heaven give good gifts to those who ask him!​

It seems to me that some people forget that Christians are adopted into the family of God. Being family has it's perks even here on earth.

To suffer eternal torment in hell for not accepting the supposed Christ; quite a penalty wouldn't you say? And if you research past history of Christianity, I believe you will find 'fear' integral to the message.

The Old Testament taught through fear. Look at Leviticus 20:9

Leviticus 20:9 “‘Anyone who curses their father or mother is to be put to death. Because they have cursed their father or mother, their blood will be on their own head.​

How many teens would make it to their twenties these days if it weren't for forgiveness. Jesus said with Salvation, your sins are forgiven. So.... in turn, someone who had cursed his parents broke the law. The Jews would have put that person to death.... Jesus offered forgiveness and eternal life.....

The way I see it....The fear was set in the Old Testament, by the Father. It was forgiven by the Son. The Son goes in and talks on our behalf. Consequences sure.... but not the loss of eternal life.

Many Religions unfortunately provide the justification for violence based on their faith. While Islam is decidedly more prone to this, Christianity has been used in the past to murder millions, and is still prone to violent interpretations even today. The Abrahamic religions have been violent, bloodthirsty religions for the whole of their existence. Try Jainism, if you want a religion that has no violent underpinnings.

Yep.... the history of the world is full of violence.... but, as far as I can see, only Christianity offers forgiveness.

:coffee:
 

MMDad

Lem Putt
The 'fear' that is talked about in 'fearing God' is not being afraid. It is committed respect. Sort of like how we fear nature. I'm not afraid of nature, but I know how powerful it is and I respect it and don't try to challenge it, because I know I will lose.

Fear is not respect. Fear is fear.

If you fear nature you are afraid of it. See, words have meanings. You can't just change what a word means to try to weasel out of it. If you mean that you respect God then say that. Don't use one word then say it means something totally different. That's dishonest.

For the nature analogy, I respect nature so I am careful to avoid poison ivy, snakes, and other threats. When I go to Alaska and there's a sign warning that there is a grizzly danger, I fear those bears and don't proceed.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
Fear is not respect. Fear is fear.

If you fear nature you are afraid of it. See, words have meanings. You can't just change what a word means to try to weasel out of it. If you mean that you respect God then say that. Don't use one word then say it means something totally different. That's dishonest.

For the nature analogy, I respect nature so I am careful to avoid poison ivy, snakes, and other threats. When I go to Alaska and there's a sign warning that there is a grizzly danger, I fear those bears and don't proceed.

I’m making a distinction between

fear: abject horror in the face of harm

and

fear: I understand the danger, therefore I stay away from it.

The second falls more in line with ‘respect’, while the first is a response to an imminent threat. I am talking about the second.
 

PsyOps

Pixelated
What happens if you don't accept Jesus as your savior? It was the meek and mild Christ that brought hell into the equation in big way in the new testament. Use of coercion? Fear? You tell me. How could it not be? To suffer eternal torment in hell for not accepting the supposed Christ; quite a penalty wouldn't you say? And if you research past history of Christianity, I believe you will find 'fear' integral to the message.

What happens when you disobey your parents? What happens when you disobey the law? Some parents say “screw it” and beat the living crap out of their kid. Some cops say ‘screw it’ and shoot you dead. God has given us an out. Why did he create this silly rule in the first place condemning some to hell and others not? The only way I can answer that is we have a nature. We know, even without a God, there is good and bad. If you commit bad there are consequences. Without a God you must recognize nature dictated those terms. So why wouldn’t it make sense that God would have spiritual consequences to rejecting Him? That is the nature of God. With everything there is its opposite. So, there is good and there is evil. You can’t know the good without its opposite. By its very nature of this, most of us fear the consequences of committing evil. By our very nature we separate ourselves from God; and because God is pure we can never be in His presence unless we are cleansed. That cleansing comes from Christ. You seemed to have read the bible and should know full-well what that’s all about. You just choose to reject it. But believing God created these rules for some sort of sick game to make us ‘fear’ Him shows a lack of understanding of the nature of God.
 

hotcoffee

New Member
Does Christianity offer forgiveness to the priests who rape children, or is there a special place in hell for them?

First of all.... we're not sure that the priests are really Christians. There are plenty of people in churches and chapels all over the world who pretend to be Christians. I read an article about professors at one college for preachers that was totally teaching against the scriptures. There are bad people all over the world who claim to be Christians. God will sort them out and their punishment will be far more severe than the punishment of the regular pervs.

If they are Christians.... They will pay.... God doesn't like that at all.

Do you remember the story of Korah, Dathan, and Abiram from Numbers 16? [I'm on my Acer Switch so it's hard to copy and paste but check it out]

In Verse 32 the earth opened and swallowed them whole!

:coffee:
 
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