Gay Advocates seek apology

[mAlice]

...isn't there a rather large difference between a white man who had been raised to think of blacks as inferior human beings and whose superiors thought so as well versus why we don't want a woman in a foxhole with a man of any color?

One of those reasons has changed; the other one never will. Yes? No?

The white man's superiors were also clueless whites at one time. I don't think black men have a problem with women serving next to them, because they've had to go through the same trials of being accepted.

I know plenty of men/women/blacks/gays who serve and have no problem serving side by side with men/women/blacks/gays. It's just a matter of time before the powers that be catch up with the times.

 

[mAlice]

I think the packers should be known in the platoon, that way you know who to send in first.

I really didn't think you were so narrow minded. My bad.

 

[Larry Gude]

Hey...

The white man's superiors were also clueless whites at one time. I don't think black men have a problem with women serving next to them, because they've had to go through the same trials of being accepted.

I know plenty of men/women/blacks/gays who serve and have no problem serving side by side with men/women/blacks/gays. It's just a matter of time before the powers that be catch up with the times.

...you served, I didn't; if the troops and their NCO's think everything is just peachy with co-ed soldiering, I can accept that.

 

[mAlice]

...you served, I didn't; if the troops and their NCO's think everything is just peachy with co-ed soldiering, I can accept that.

Yes, I did. I never experienced any hostility from the older men regarding women in the military. :shrug:

I knew plenty of gays. Some of them obviously so, others you wouldn't believe it if they told you they were gay.

 

[Larry Gude]

But that's not...

Yes, I did. I never experienced any hostility from the older men regarding women in the military. :shrug:

I knew plenty of gays. Some of them obviously so, others you wouldn't believe it if they told you they were gay.

...the question. The question is 'is co-ed just as effective a fighting environment or even more so than gender segregation'?

 

[Roughidle]

...the question. The question is 'is co-ed just as effective a fighting environment or even more so than gender segregation'?

Probably just as effective...when the stuff hits the fan in a real combat situation gender/sexual orientation rifts go out the window for the sake of saving you and your shipmate's bacon and destroying the threat.

 

[mAlice]

...the question. The question is 'is co-ed just as effective a fighting environment or even more so than gender segregation'?

I can't answer that because I haven't been in a "fighting environment". I personally do not feel that women should be on the front lines, but that's a personall opinion and shouldn't affect someone else's desires to be there. That said, I still don't see why it would be a less than effective environment with women on the front lines. Do you?

 

[Geek]

...and there was a day that our soldiers didn't want to be in a fox hole with a black man. Then it was women in the military that was the issue, then women in combat.

Do you see a trend here?

I respect anyone that fights for our country.

 

[Gwydion]

I respect anyone that fights for our country.

 

[Larry Gude]

Right....

Probably just as effective...when the stuff hits the fan in a real combat situation gender/sexual orientation rifts go out the window for the sake of saving you and your shipmate's bacon and destroying the threat.

...BUT everyone says the same thing about combat; endless hours of boredom and tedium interrupted by moments of shear terror. Is it easier to keep boys on task in an environment without girls around? Maybe it's easier with? I just think that is where the conversation should be, the environment. It's not going to be easy for a bunch of 18 year olds from BF to simply be mature enough and self confident enough to not only deal with women but to deal with homosexuals as well. Maybe it is? I don't know, but again, that's where the conversation should be.

 

[rack'm]

I really didn't think you were so narrow minded. My bad.

You know better than to take most of my post seriously.


The truth be known, I could careless if they're gay or not, they're serving my/their country in harms way.

Now, if they fail their brothers in the line of duty, they should be shot and left behind.

 

[Larry Gude]

Yeah I'm a sexist that way...

I can't answer that because I haven't been in a "fighting environment". I personally do not feel that women should be on the front lines, but that's a personall opinion and shouldn't affect someone else's desires to be there. That said, I still don't see why it would be a less than effective environment with women on the front lines. Do you?

...no girls in the infantry, at least not combat units. I see nothing but trouble having mixed units like tanks. Fantasy crap like GI Jane serves no purpose either. Is there a single woman, ever, who could make it through BUD's?

Men are physically superior and that's all there is to it. Infantry is largely a physical job, let alone spec ops people.

There are all sorts of exceptions; maybe women make better commanders or can handle tedious task better? Stand guard better? At the end of the day, policy has to be set. What's it gonna be? Individual based or mass based? Can it be both?

 

[rack'm]

I can't answer that because I haven't been in a "fighting environment". I personally do not feel that women should be on the front lines, but that's a personall opinion and shouldn't affect someone else's desires to be there. That said, I still don't see why it would be a less than effective environment with women on the front lines. Do you?

I don't think so, just lilke male partners on the force, the bond that the team has is there.

 

[Gwydion]

So we should make rules based on immaturity?

 

[Geek]

...BUT everyone says the same thing about combat; endless hours of boredom and tedium interrupted by moments of shear terror. Is it easier to keep boys on task in an environment without girls around? Maybe it's easier with? I just think that is where the conversation should be, the environment. It's not going to be easy for a bunch of 18 year olds from BF to simply be mature enough and self confident enough to not only deal with women but to deal with homosexuals as well. Maybe it is? I don't know, but again, that's where the conversation should be.

But we are asking them to be mature enough to give their lives, I think that is harder to "deal" with.

 

[Roughidle]

I said in a "real/actual combat situation". Fact is in regular day to day drudgery of military life. Gender mixing breeds(pardon the pun) a certain area of trouble that wouldn't otherwise exist. Having served on multiple deployments aboard carriers I've seen first hand the issues and they're not small and they do adversly effect moral and good order. That said, the mixing of gays and straights brings with it other yet similar adverse issues. Keeping things in the closet so ta speak may cover the problems but they do not advocate the cause of those who seem to think its "alright" as long as they want to serve, in my opinion.

 

[Tonio]

Having served on multiple deployments aboard carriers I've seen first hand the issues and they're not small and they do adversly effect moral and good order.

I've never served in the military, so I have no direct perspective on this. Would you be more specific about the issues, both with gender mixing and with gays?

I can imagine relationships between female and male sailors hampering fighting effectiveness, especially if one of the partners is a superior officer. But the issue with gay service members seems less clear to me. Are some servicemen concerned that a gay comrade would look at them with lust, or worse, sexually harass them? Or would the gay serviceman himself be targeted for verbal or physical harassment?

What are the issues from your perspective? Other than combat situations, what would make gender and gay issues more severe in the military than in a civilian workplace?

 

[SamSpade]

Well I think first, people are asking if he should apologize.

To me, it doesn't matter if he's chairman of the joint chiefs, or any guy in the street. The need for him to apologize is equal to that of any other guy.

Which is to say - none.

See, to me, the consequence of saying something everyone thinks is obtuse is, you get the cold shoulder. So if he says something sexist, or racist or homophobic or against fat people or or people with glasses or liberals - it's all the same. You don't apologize. Not unless those above you are complete wimps who are afraid of backlash THEY might bear for your words. But if things you say cause you to be unpopular, that's the price. Not being forced to change your words even though it's clear your OPINION is unchanged.

Think of it. If you're on here and you say something obnoxious - or unpopular - or just, it offends ONE PERSON - are you going to apologize? Why should you?

And second, as long as the policy in the military is, don't ask, don't tell - meaning, yeah, no gays allowed but it's ok if you keep your mouth shut - no gay group has any business asking for an apology when they're already effectively silenced on the matter. Why expect an apology regarding gays in an organization whose official policy is, you're not allowed? Are we going to expect the KKK to apologize to blacks? Good luck with that.

 

[truby20]

And please forgive me for asking a question and wasting your 10 seconds of research time. Here's hoping you can use your time towards a more valuable purpose in the future.

I just didn't understand why YOU couldn't look up the total number of persons in the military.

Google is available to all, use it.

 

[PrchJrkr]

I just didn't understand why YOU couldn't look up the total number of persons in the military.

Google is available to all, use it.

msing: