Great New "Stand Their Ground" Law in Florida

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Bruzilla

Guest
http://www.reuters.com/newsArticle.jhtml?type=domesticNews&storyID=8092444

TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (Reuters) - People in Florida will be allowed to kill in self-defense on the street without trying to flee under a new law passed by state politicians on Tuesday that critics say will bring a Wild West mentality and innocent deaths.

The Florida House of Representatives, citing the need to allow people to "stand their ground," voted 94-20 to codify and expand court rulings that already allow people to use deadly force to protect themselves in their homes without first trying to escape.

The new bill goes further by allowing citizens to use deadly force in a public place if they have a reasonable belief they are in danger of death or great bodily harm. It applies to all means of force that may result in death, although the legislative debate focused on guns.

The "Stand Your Ground" bill passed the Senate last week on a 39-0 vote and now goes to Republican Gov. Jeb Bush, who indicated he will sign it.

"This is about meeting force with force," said House sponsor Republican state Rep. Dennis Baxley of Ocala. "If I'm attacked, I should not have to retreat."

Critics have few objections to allowing people to protect themselves from intruders in their homes but said the provision making it easier to use deadly force in public gives gun owners a license to kill.

"For a House that talks about the culture of life it's ironic that we would be devaluing life in this bill," said Democratic state Rep. Dan Gelber of Miami Beach. "That's exactly what we're doing."

Like many states, Florida courts have ruled that people have a right to defend themselves in their homes. Florida courts have expanded that "Castle Doctrine" to include employees in their workplaces and drivers who are attacked in their automobiles.

Outside the home, however, courts have ruled that most victims must at least attempt to escape before using deadly force, a provision gun advocates say puts victims at greater risk. The proposal removes that requirement if a person has a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm.

Critics say the measure could lead to racially motivated killings and promote deadly escalations of arguments.

"All this bill will do is sell more guns and possibly turn Florida into the OK Corral," said Democratic state Rep. Irv Slosberg of Boca Raton.
 

vraiblonde

Board Mommy
PREMO Member
Patron
Bruzilla said:
Critics say the measure could lead to racially motivated killings and promote deadly escalations of arguments.
That's one of the more ignorant things I've ever read.
 

Tonio

Asperger's Poster Child
Outside the home, however, courts have ruled that most victims must at least attempt to escape before using deadly force, a provision gun advocates say puts victims at greater risk. The proposal removes that requirement if a person has a reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm.

That makes sense to me.

One question--I had read that many gun deaths involve people who have unpleasant histories with each other, such as aggrieved spouses. I'd be interested to know how the law would apply in those situations. "Reasonable belief they are in danger of death or great bodily harm" might be much harder to prove if both parties had longstanding grievances.
 

Tonio

Asperger's Poster Child
vraiblonde said:
That's one of the more ignorant things I've ever read.
You have a point. Someone who would kill for racial reasons, like Matthew Hale, is not likely to worry about whether the law entitles him to kill in self-defense. Same thing with "deadly escalation of arguments"--such an argument is likely to become violent with or without firearms.
 

Toxick

Splat
Bruzilla said:
TALLAHASSEE, Fla. (Reuters) - People in Florida will be allowed to kill in self-defense on the street without trying to flee under a new law passed by state politicians on Tuesday that critics say will bring a Wild West mentality and innocent deaths.



Innocent deaths?

By definition, busting a self-defensive cap in someone's ass does not result in innocent death, but rather the death of some mother####er who needed killin'.



And I think a "Wild West Mentality" is much more desirable than a "cower in a fetus-position mentality".
 
B

Bruzilla

Guest
The way that the laws have been applied in Florida are for Stranger-On-Stranger crime, and this bill was specifically designed to deter carjackers as there had been concern that drivers weren't legally protected as they're in a grey area of being under a threat but being unable to flee. Thankfully, Florida is more concerned with law abiding citizens than the well being of criminals, and rather than decide to error on the side of the bad guys by not being able to define "fleeing" in these cases, they errored on the side of the good guys by saying it's okay to shoot the bad guys. :dance:

In cases of familiar crime, the rules are different and you need to demonstrate why you felt that your life was in danger. For example, the mere fact that your wife had a knife in her hand and was walking towards you does not constitute a threat of grave bodily harm (she might be cooking or pointing the knife in an argument the way that women point fingers), while a stranger approaching you with a knife does.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Who does this guy think he is?

"If I'm attacked, I should not have to retreat."

...a free man or something?


Double R:

Opposition to this bill is completely inane. I can't believe that anyone would oppose it!

You are REQUIRED to flee if you can, even in your home, in the Free State; Maryland.
 

Larry Gude

Strung Out
Freak

"For a House that talks about the culture of life it's ironic that we would be devaluing life in this bill," said Democratic state Rep. Dan Gelber of Miami Beach. "That's exactly what we're doing."

So, you prefer the old way where if someone was trying to kill you, you just TURNED YOUR BACK ON THEM and toddled off.

Freak! FREAK!!!!! IN-effing-sane!!!!

(Is this guy originally from Maryland?)
 

rraley

New Member
How could this be construed as anti-life? Doesn't requiring flight open a person up to attacks on their life?

Now I understand that some Democrats should be upset that they are labeled anti-life and Republicans aren't, and I think that we should press this concept of talking in terms of what is really pro-life and what is not, but this is one of those things where it's just way out in left field (perhaps far left field).
 
B

Bruzilla

Guest
The Florida Democrats were all up in arms (no pun intended) in the early 80s when the law allowing you to keep a loaded handgun in your car was passed. They voiced all kinds of concerns about freeway shootings, road rage shootings, etc. Instead the number of ATM robberies (the big issue at the time) went to about zero and there was no increase in road rage incidents. This law also showed how criminals viewed armed citizens as it caused tourists driving cars with rental car tags to be targeted for robbery because they were the only people criminals knew for sure didn't have a gun in the car. Once the tags were changed, and criminals couldn't tell the sharks from the minnows, the attacks stopped.

In the mid-1980s, they passed a law down here allowing open-carry of firearms, which prompted Democrats to start yelling about Dodge City and numerous shootings. They ended up being half right, and the law was repealed after too many people started wearing handguns and made some cities look like Dodge City... not a good thing when you depend on tourist dollars.

In the mid-1990s, Florida enacted a very relaxed concealed carry law that again urged Democrats to scream about rampant shootings and the dreaded Dodge City syndrome. They were wrong again as stranger-on-stranger crime, and shootings in general, dropped.

I'm starting to think that the next Republican convention should be held in Dodge City. :lmao:
 

willie

Well-Known Member
Compare that to Maryland where you're in deep poo-poo if you defend yourself and your boyfriend in your own home from a guy with protective orders against him plus outstanding warrants.
Charles County Sheriff's Office is working with the Charles County State's Attorney Office to determine whether charges will be filed against the woman. Det. T. Miner is investigating.
Charles Countians need to remember this at election time.
http://somd.com/news/headlines/articles/1869.shtml
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
willie said:
Compare that to Maryland where you're in deep poo-poo if you defend yourself and your boyfriend in your own home from a guy with protective orders against him plus outstanding warrants.
Charles County Sheriff's Office is working with the Charles County State's Attorney Office to determine whether charges will be filed against the woman. Det. T. Miner is investigating.
Charles Countians need to remember this at election time.
http://somd.com/news/headlines/articles/1869.shtml
Maybe there was something weird with what went on. Maybe that is why they are looking into it. Maybe they will determine it to be justified. Maybe it is part of standard procedure to investigate firearms deaths. All we know is what has been stated and from that I don't know what really went on, do you?
 

willie

Well-Known Member
Ken King said:
Maybe there was something weird with what went on. Maybe that is why they are looking into it. Maybe they will determine it to be justified. Maybe it is part of standard procedure to investigate firearms deaths. All we know is what has been stated and from that I don't know what really went on, do you?
Can't argue with that. I've got less faith in the media everyday but this case does sound typical Maryland. Aren't we expected to retreat even in our own home?
 
C

czygvtwkr

Guest
Yes but they have to find a jury that will convict you. In St Marys that might be hard, closer to DC though could be a problem since half the jury has probably broken into someones home at some point LOL
 
B

Bruzilla

Guest
Ken King said:
... I don't know what really went on, do you?

Ex-boyfriend... with warrants... under court orders to stay away...

If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck... shoot it!

But I hope the State's Attorney gets some reassurance that those two arrest orders for violating the court orders did a flat-out fantastic job of deterring the ex-boyfriend from coming to the house a third time and attempting to kill the new boyfriend.
 
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Vince

......
Bruzilla said:
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"This is about meeting force with force," said House sponsor Republican state Rep. Dennis Baxley of Ocala. "If I'm attacked, I should not have to retreat."
:yeahthat: I dayum well should not have to retreat in my own home. I will meet deady force in my home with deadly force and I really don't give a crap about Md. law. Florida is looking better everyday.
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
Bruzilla said:
Ex-boyfriend... with warrants... under court orders to stay away...

If it walks like a duck, swims like a duck, and quacks like a duck... shoot it!

But I hope the State's Attorney gets some reassurance that those two arrest orders for violating the court orders did a flat-out fantastic job of deterring the ex-boyfriend from coming to the house a third time and attempting to kill the new boyfriend.
See that's the problem and I guess why they investigate things or everyone would just have a crystal ball like you. Now Carnack the Magnificent, since it's your duck, can you tell me if the duck was moving towards the woman or away when she popped off the fatal round? Was the duck trying to flee when it observed the hunter coming at it with the gun?
 
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