"Helmets dont really help you in a crash"

[glhs837]

I will call the open face helmet corwds attention to the chinbar. I cant help but imagine this young man would be getting grafts to his face if not for that part of the helmet. K-jo, can you get us any more details about what other protective equipment he might have had? And locations of injuries. Any bit of that might help convince a rider to gear up more and prevent others from getting injured the same way.

 

[K_Jo]

I will call the open face helmet corwds attention to the chinbar. I cant help but imagine this young man would be getting grafts to his face if not for that part of the helmet. K-jo, can you get us any more details about what other protective equipment he might have had? And locations of injuries. Any bit of that might help convince a rider to gear up more and prevent others from getting injured the same way.

I think I can. Hold, please.

 

[desertrat]

This is the helmet of my friend's son who wrecked his motorcycle yesterday in PA. He is in bad shape and has to have skin graft surgery later today, but he's going to be OK.

Glad he'll be ok.

 

[K_Jo]

He has no broken bones and no brain damage, thank goodness! But the skin grafts are being done on his left arm, hip, knee and (I think) leg. I've seen pics of him riding and he wasn't wearing any other gear besides his helmet, but I don't know for sure what he had on when he wrecked. I'll ask as soon as it feels OK to ask.

 

[glhs837]

Roger that.

 

[dn0121]

Glad he had his gear on. I wear full gear when ever I ride now. Back when I started it was just a helmet and boots.

 

[BeHereNow]

I will call the open face helmet corwds attention to the chinbar. I cant help but imagine this young man would be getting grafts to his face if not for that part of the helmet. K-jo, can you get us any more details about what other protective equipment he might have had? And locations of injuries. Any bit of that might help convince a rider to gear up more and prevent others from getting injured the same way.

Glad he is doing well.
I would be interested in hearing his age, and riding experience in years and miles.

That's quite a head cage he was wearing. I sure hope it didn't contribute to the crash.
That's the kind that is illegal for cage drivers to wear, since they obstruct vision and hearing, a saftey hazard ya know.
I've been trying to figure out why it is more dangerous when on 4 wheels, but an improvement when on 2 wheels. Haven't figured that one out yet.
Any help out there? There must be a logical resaon.
I figure that it contributes to some accidents, but helps, so overall, it is a statistical improvement.
The statistics change, for experienced, mature riders.

 

[Larry Gude]

I will call the open face helmet corwds attention to the chinbar. I cant help but imagine this young man would be getting grafts to his face if not for that part of the helmet. K-jo, can you get us any more details about what other protective equipment he might have had? And locations of injuries. Any bit of that might help convince a rider to gear up more and prevent others from getting injured the same way.

CRINGE

 

[BeHereNow]

Another of my friends wrecked about 2 weeks about. She was going around a curve at about 40mph and just ran off the road. Nothing hurt on her but her pride. The metric cruiser was totaled. Luckily she missed the house.
She's had been driving 3 weeks, 2 days and 6 hours. Nearly 500 miles on the odometer.

I've had my most recent bike five weeks tomorrow, and have 3000 miles on it.
It's not for lookin, it's for ridin.

 

[glhs837]

Glad he is doing well.
I would be interested in hearing his age, and riding experience in years and miles.

That's quite a head cage he was wearing. I sure hope it didn't contribute to the crash.
That's the kind that is illegal for cage drivers to wear, since they obstruct vision and hearing, a saftey hazard ya know.
I've been trying to figure out why it is more dangerous when on 4 wheels, but an improvement when on 2 wheels. Haven't figured that one out yet.
Any help out there? There must be a logical resaon.
I figure that it contributes to some accidents, but helps, so overall, it is a statistical improvement.
The statistics change, for experienced, mature riders.

Sure, its easy. Inside a cage, your vision and hearing are already obstructed, adding a helmet to that makes it about 5 times worse than on a bike, not just twice. Most cars also dont have the headroom for free movement of the head. Twisting to move your peripheral vision much harder in a car, easy on a bike. Ever drive a car on a racetrack wearing a helmet? There, its not so bad, but everyone is going in the same direction, at about the same speed.

Now, lets talk a hazard analysis. Those are run using a probability/severity matrix.

http://www.austrac.gov.au/elearning_amlctf_programcourse/images/content/diagram_risk_matrix_2.gif

The chances of fatal catastrophic head injury in a car, without other fatal injuries, are remote. You have that cage to protect you, after all. Compare that to the chances of a fatal head injury coming off a bike.

 

[BeHereNow]

Sure, its easy. Inside a cage, your vision and hearing are already obstructed, adding a helmet to that makes it about 5 times worse than on a bike, not just twice. Most cars also dont have the headroom for free movement of the head. Twisting to move your peripheral vision much harder in a car, easy on a bike. Ever drive a car on a racetrack wearing a helmet? There, its not so bad, but everyone is going in the same direction, at about the same speed.

Now, lets talk a hazard analysis. Those are run using a probability/severity matrix.

http://www.austrac.gov.au/elearning_amlctf_programcourse/images/content/diagram_risk_matrix_2.gif

The chances of fatal catastrophic head injury in a car, without other fatal injuries, are remote. You have that cage to protect you, after all. Compare that to the chances of a fatal head injury coming off a bike.

Traumatic brain injury due to auto accident
One of the leading causes of death for people under 45 is TBI or traumatic brain injury, and the leading cause of TBI is from automobile accidents.

 

[glhs837]

Let me do some digging, although I find it very telling that it seems that %100 of the links that pop on that and related terms, are lawyers pages, as was your source, which, I might add, gave no references. Ah, this looks promising....no time now, but I will be back.

FARS Encyclopedia: Query - Step 2: Choose Variables to Use

Now, I do see here where motor vehicle accident is leading cause of accidental death for under 45, but I see no stats anywhere that break that down by injury in the crashes. Nor any stat that breaks down head injuries in unbelted drivers vs belted.

Death Statistics Tables

 

[aps45819]

While I would like to see the state law requiring helmets repealed, I realize the laws of physics requiring helmets will never be repealed.

 

[ylexot]

That's quite a head cage he was wearing. I sure hope it didn't contribute to the crash.
That's the kind that is illegal for cage drivers to wear, since they obstruct vision and hearing, a saftey hazard ya know.
I've been trying to figure out why it is more dangerous when on 4 wheels, but an improvement when on 2 wheels. Haven't figured that one out yet.
Any help out there? There must be a logical resaon.
I figure that it contributes to some accidents, but helps, so overall, it is a statistical improvement.
The statistics change, for experienced, mature riders.

Have you ever worn a modern full-faced helmet? Vision restrictions are almost nil and they are at the bottom of your vision (caused by the chin bar) where your vision is not important for safety. As for hearing, I have to wear earplugs because I hear too much and it's bad for your hearing. I definitely hear more with a helmet on than I do in a car.

 

[desertrat]

Have you ever worn a modern full-faced helmet? Vision restrictions are almost nil and they are at the bottom of your vision (caused by the chin bar) where your vision is not important for safety. As for hearing, I have to wear earplugs because I hear too much and it's bad for your hearing. I definitely hear more with a helmet on than I do in a car.

Especially when a fire truck rolls past blasting their horn. Next time that happens I swear I'm ripping off my helmet so I can stick my fingers in my ears. Assuming I'm stopped.

 

[BeHereNow]

Have you ever worn a modern full-faced helmet? Vision restrictions are almost nil and they are at the bottom of your vision (caused by the chin bar) where your vision is not important for safety. As for hearing, I have to wear earplugs because I hear too much and it's bad for your hearing. I definitely hear more with a helmet on than I do in a car.

Well, you make a good argument for requiring their use in cages, it seems to me.
I wear a half helmet, and in a cage it seems to me there would no restriction of movement etc. Not only that, the passengers don't need mobility, vision, etc, they just need protection! Cage Passengers would be safer with a helmet than without. Seems to be a truism to me.
I had a full helmet on, but not when I was riding. Sure felt like a straight jacket to me.

I would never discourage anyone from wearing a helmet, cage or bike.

I see young guys on crotch rockets and they dang well better wear a helmet, they are going to wreck, it is just a matter of when and how bad. Shorts, tennis shoes, short sleeve shirts and a full face helmet, quite a sight.

Anyone who has been riding regularly, for many years, has seen every dumb move a cager can make, know their bike, know their brakes, and know their limits. The chances of them crashing are unlikely, and they should have a choice. That crap about being a burden on society is. . . crap.

I'm not against helmets, but I am against helmet laws, they are not effective.

I am insensed by the states that have mandatory laws for bikers, and are not even discussing the same laws for cagers. It defies common sense. It should at least be on the table, but it is not. It would be voted down because bikers are such a minority, but it should at least be on the table.

 

[ylexot]

Well, you make a good argument for requiring their use in cages, it seems to me.

And I really don't care about that or anything else you said. I was pointing out that your comments on the visibility and hearing from helmets and the conjecture that it may have contributed to the accident were massively ignorant.

 

[BeHereNow]

And I really don't care about that or anything else you said. I was pointing out that your comments on the visibility and hearing from helmets and the conjecture that it may have contributed to the accident were massively ignorant.

Well, there is some reason why they are illegal in cages, and I was told that was it.

aps45819 told me this, sorry he was incorrect, sorry I repeated his error.

Now, can you tell us why they are illegal for use in cages?
That would be helpful.

 

[ylexot]

Well, there is some reason why they are illegal in cages, and I was told that was it.

aps45819 told me this, sorry he was incorrect, sorry I repeated his error.

Now, can you tell us why they are illegal for use in cages?
That would be helpful.

No, because...

 

[BeHereNow]

No, because...

I can never understand people who stick their nose into a conversation, then run for cover saying "I don't care."

I have to admit, I've been wondering how long it is that you wore a half helmet before switching to full face, since you know so much about both.