Herman Cain dead from Corona Virus after attending Tulsa rally

Louise

Active Member
PREMO Member
So, it would have been better to not institute any of the travel bans from China or Europe, since they would have had inconsequential effect? So allowing thousands of more people to potentially enter the US and, as you point out, probably would not have been tracked or monitored or quarantined would have been a better alternative????
No national response? NONE???? So everything that has happened is solely out of the Federal government? The CDC has just sat by idly, there were not daily briefings?

Yes, he was optimistic, but there's nothing necessarily wrong with trying to be positive with the unknown situation. Quite a few of those statements he made were early on (Feb/Mar) when cases were low and there was some in the scientific community that predicted this could follow a similar path that SARS did in the early 90's, when the temperature warmed up and SARS largely went away. So there was some data to suggest the optimism Trump was showing had some validity. Unfortunately that isn't the path this virus has followed. You make decisions on the data you have AT THE TIME.
While technically correct, the functions of this unit are still active and dealing with this situation. So it is a disingenuous claim to state what you have repeatedly stated.
I agree it is a flaw in his character when sometimes he goes with his gut instinct on things; but he is right on some things and wrong on others. I venture a guess, but I'd say other Presidents have undermined their advisors, just not as publicly as Trump (and not with a willing press to harp on such things with Trump and not so much his predecessors).
So, if Trump had told people to wear masks and/or social distance at his rallies, that would make you feel better? You and the other lefties went nuts when he issued a travel ban...I couldn't imagine what you would have done if Trump issued an Executive Order mandating people wear masks, even though you are probably OK if their state or locality mandates it.

...and no one else, right. Just the President? No governors, no mayors, no county executives? Just the President. Got it. I think if he had done EVERYTHING people like you think he should have done (with the advantage of 20/20 hindsight) you still would be angry and bitter.
You can’t have a discussion with a libprog Dem. Why? Because they all wear flip flops, had their brain washed, try to figure out which way the wind is blowing, and are total hypocrites.
 

Rommey

Well-Known Member
I would have commended him and praised him if he had done what Germany, New Zealand or South Korea had done. instead he hoped it could be ignored until after the election.
I don't believe you. You haven't shown any inclination to even give the slightest bit of credit thus far, so why would I believe you now?

a mandatory lockdown, mask wearing an[d] social distancing as well as contact tracing and wide spread testing.
Germany never had a mandatory lock down, nor mandate wearing a mask, but did limit social gatherings to two people, and did put restrictions on traveling in/out of the EU and Germany. They did get ahead of things with regard to contact tracing (but primarily focused on persons traveling in and out of Germany), so it is a path we could have followed. I don't know how their plan logistics would work if tried in the US given the numerous airports here vs. there.

we would be done with this and had it eradicated if he had done that.
Really? South Korea just had their biggest spike since March on July 25th. So not quite as eradicated as you would have hoped.

you repeat lies with no basis. The pandemic response unit was not folded in to anything else or else Pence wouldn’t have had to be drafted to formulate and lead the response. A response would have been formulated already and someone with some knowledge and experience would have lead it.
Per Reuters:
The Trump administration disbanded the “pandemic response” team, but some of the team members were reassigned to roles that included pandemic response.
 

Crabcatcher79

Active Member
You can’t have a discussion with a libprog Dem. Why? Because they all wear flip flops, had their brain washed, try to figure out which way the wind is blowing, and are total hypocrites.
Says the lunatic who thinks George Soros cares what she is doing and wants to microchip her. Oh the Irony
 

Crabcatcher79

Active Member
I don't believe you. You haven't shown any inclination to even give the slightest bit of credit thus far, so why would I believe you now?

Germany never had a mandatory lock down, nor mandate wearing a mask, but did limit social gatherings to two people, and did put restrictions on traveling in/out of the EU and Germany. They did get ahead of things with regard to contact tracing (but primarily focused on persons traveling in and out of Germany), so it is a path we could have followed. I don't know how their plan logistics would work if tried in the US given the numerous airports here vs. there.

Really? South Korea just had their biggest spike since March on July 25th. So not quite as eradicated as you would have hoped.

Per Reuters:
The Trump administration disbanded the “pandemic response” team, but some of the team members were reassigned to roles that included pandemic response.
Haha.

“Some” of the team Members were reassigned roles that “included pandemic response.”
Which translates to the pandemic response unit was disbanded.

you think that’s acceptable? And ensures we are ready for to act.

you will really excuse any idiocy as long as the person doing it has an R next to their name.
 

Gilligan

#*! boat!
PREMO Member
Never thought I'd see the day that a lefty was screaming for a Republican President to set aside and completely disregard the Constitution and usurp the authority granted only to the states. A lefty...crying out for a dictatorship.:killingme
 

Kyle

Having a Beer while the world burns!
PREMO Member
Never thought I'd see the day that a lefty was screaming for a Republican President to set aside and completely disregard the Constitution and usurp the authority granted only to the states. A lefty...crying out for a dictatorship.:killingme
And yet when he doesn't overstep, he's :cds: a fascist! :jet:
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
I would have commended him and praised him

Liar


.... instead he hoped it could be ignored until after the election.
Fantasy and Conjecture


a mandatory lockdown, mask wearing an social distancing as well as contact tracing and wide spread testing.
"There Is No Proven Effectiveness" - Netherlands Refuses To Mandate Mask Wearing In Public

:nono:


How MANY Are Dying

330 Million
4.64 Mil Infected
154k Deaths

1.42 % of the population infected
.0047 % of the population has died


Mortality Analyses

Mortality in the most affected countries
For the twenty countries currently most affected by COVID-19 worldwide, the bars in the chart below show the number of deaths either per 100 confirmed cases (observed case-fatality ratio) or per 100,000 population (this represents a country’s general population, with both confirmed cases and healthy people). Countries at the top of this figure have the most deaths proportionally to their COVID-19 cases or population, not necessarily the most deaths overall.



150170



you repeat lies with no basis. The pandemic response unit was not folded in to anything else or else Pence wouldn’t have had to be drafted to formulate and lead the response. A response would have been formulated already and someone with some knowledge and experience would have lead it.
Fantasy, Supposition, Innuendo and LIES


Partly false claim: Trump fired entire pandemic response team in 2018

Three days later, Tim Morrison, former senior director for counterproliferation and biodefense on the NSC, wrote in another Washington Post Op-Ed, “It is true that the Trump administration has seen fit to shrink the NSC staff. But the bloat that occurred under the previous administration clearly needed a correction. … One such move at the NSC was to create the counterproliferation and biodefense directorate, which was the result of consolidating three directorates into one, given the obvious overlap between arms control and nonproliferation, weapons of mass destruction terrorism, and global health and biodefense. It is this reorganization that critics have misconstrued or intentionally misrepresented. If anything, the combined directorate was stronger because related expertise could be commingled” ( here ).

On March 14, 2020, John Bolton described the changes made to the team as streamlining. He tweeted: “Claims that streamlining NSC structures impaired our nation's bio defense are false. Global health remained a top NSC priority, and its expert team was critical to effectively handling the 2018-19 Africa Ebola crisis. The angry Left just can't stop attacking, even in a crisis.” ( here )



Fact Check: WH Dissolved Pandemic Unit but Did Not ‘Fire the Entire White House Pandemic Team’
 
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Rommey

Well-Known Member
“Some” of the team Members were reassigned roles that “included pandemic response.”
Which translates to the pandemic response unit was disbanded.
Yes it was disbanded...no one is disputing that. But that doesn't mean the functions went away. You have any proof that once this unit was disbanded there were no longer any member of the administration dealing with the pandemic the similarly to how the unit was dealing with the pandemic?

you think that’s acceptable? And ensures we are ready for to act.
Is it acceptable? I don't know, but if there is a mechanism in place to deal with this and it is just as effective, then does it really matter if it called something specific?
you will really excuse any idiocy as long as the person doing it has an R next to their name.
I'm not excusing anything. You seem too eager to summarily dismiss anything and complain about everything as long as the person doing it has an R next to their name.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
I'm not excusing anything. You seem too eager to summarily dismiss anything and complain about everything as long as the person doing it has an R next to their name.

any use of ' Facts ' to counter Sapidus Narrative is ' making excuses '


:yay:
 

Ken King

A little rusty but not crusty
PREMO Member
CC79 doesn't care that his Messiah (BHO) eliminated the White House Health and Security Office in 2009 and recreated it within the NSC in 2016 as the Directorate for Global Health Security and Biodefense. And President Trump didn't do anything with it, it was John Bolton that reorganized it when he was head of the NSC.
 

Crabcatcher79

Active Member
Yes it was disbanded...no one is disputing that. But that doesn't mean the functions went away. You have any proof that once this unit was disbanded there were no longer any member of the administration dealing with the pandemic the similarly to how the unit was dealing with the pandemic?

Is it acceptable? I don't know, but if there is a mechanism in place to deal with this and it is just as effective, then does it really matter if it called something specific?
I'm not excusing anything. You seem too eager to summarily dismiss anything and complain about everything as long as the person doing it has an R next to their name.
What Trump did made us less prepared for a pandemic. Less than a year before we were hit with a pandemic and you still can’t bring your self to say maybe that had an effect on the response.
Just like you make excuses for Trump not having relapsed his taxes which he said he would do, You make excuses for him not building a wall and Mexico not paying for it.

Just like you excuse him for not having repealed and replaced Obamacare despite him saying it was his first priority.

just like you excuse golfing more than Obama despite having served half the time.

there is nothing you won’t make an excuse for. He has done nothing and you still cheer him.

it’s sad and cult like
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
What Trump did made us less prepared for a pandemic. Less than a year before we were hit with a pandemic and you still can’t bring your self to say maybe that had an effect on the response.
1

Fantasy Conjecture and Assumption ...... YOU have NO Proof

Just like you make excuses for Trump not having relapsed his taxes which he said he would do,
Aww Poor Baby ...... Trump CHANGED his Mind, and YOU have no RIGHT To see His Tax Filings

You make excuses for him not building a wall and Mexico not paying for it.
Damn you are Ignorant ........

Trump tours wall as construction hits 200-mile mark, says southern border has 'never been more secure'


Just like you excuse him for not having repealed and replaced Obamacare despite him saying it was his first priority.
More Fantasy Conjecture and Misinformation

Trump Is Trying Hard To Thwart Obamacare. How's That Going?

1. Individual mandate eliminated

What is it? The individual mandate is the requirement that all U.S. residents either have health insurance or pay a penalty. The mandate was intended to help keep the premiums for ACA policies low by ensuring that more healthy people entered the health insurance market.

What changed? The 2017 Republican-backed tax overhaul legislation reduced the penalty for not having insurance to $0.

What does the administration say? "We eliminated Obamacare's horrible, horrible, very expensive and very unfair, unpopular individual mandate. A total disaster. That was a big penalty. That was a big thing. Where you paid a lot of money for the privilege [...] of having no healthcare." — President Trump, The Villages, Florida, Oct. 3, 2019

2. States allowed to add "work requirements" to Medicaid

What is it? Medicaid expansion was a key part of the ACA. The federal government helped pay for states (that chose to) to expand Medicaid eligibility beyond families to include all low-income adults, and to raise the income threshold, so that more people would be eligible. So far, 37 states and Washington have opted to expand Medicaid.

What changed? Under Trump, if they get approval from the federal government, states can now require Medicaid beneficiaries to prove with documentation that they either work or go to school.

What does the administration say? "When you consider that, less than five years ago, Medicaid was expanded to nearly 15 million new working-age adults, it's fair that states want to add community engagement requirements for those with the ability to meet them. It's easier to give someone a card; it's much harder to build a ladder to help people climb their way out of poverty. But even though it is harder, it's the right thing to do." — Seema Verma, administrator of the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services, Washington, Sept. 27, 2018

3. Cost-sharing reduction subsidies to insurers have ended

What is it? Payments from the federal government to insurers to motivate them to stay in the ACA insurance exchanges and help keep premiums down.

What changed? The Trump administration suddenly stopped paying these subsidies in 2017.

What does the administration say? "I knocked out the hundreds of millions of dollars a month being paid back to the insurance companies by politicians. ... This is money that goes to the insurance companies to line their pockets, to raise up their stock prices. And they've had a record run. They've had an incredible run, and it's not appropriate." — President Trump, the White House, Oct 17, 2017

4. Access to short-term "skinny" plans has been expanded

What is it? The ACA initially established rules that health plans sold on HealthCare.gov and state exchanges had to cover people with preexisting conditions and had to provide certain "essential benefits." President Obama limited any short-term insurance policies that did not provide those benefits to a maximum duration of three months. (The original idea of these policies is that they can serve as a helpful bridge for people between school and a job, for example.)

What changed? The Trump administration issued a rule last year that allowed these short-term plans to last 364 days and to be renewable for three years.

What does the administration say? "We took swift action to open short-term health plans and association health plans to millions and millions of Americans. Many of these options are already reducing the cost of health insurance premiums by up to 60% and, really, more than that." — President Trump, The White House, June 14, 2019

5. Funds to facilitate HealthCare.gov sign-ups slashed

What is it? The ACA created Navigator programs and an advertising budget to help people figure out specifics of the new federally run insurance exchanges and sign up for coverage.

What changed? In August 2017, the administration significantly cut federal funding for these programs.

What does the administration say? "It's time for the Navigator program to evolve. ... This decision reflects CMS' commitment to put federal dollars for the federally facilitated Exchanges to their most cost effective use in order to better support consumers through the enrollment process." — CMS Administrator Seema Verma, written statement, July 10, 2018



just like you excuse golfing more than Obama despite having served half the time.
:cds:

That's the best ya got ..... Golf Criticism

there is nothing you won’t make an excuse for. He has done nothing and you still cheer him.

it’s sad and cult like

Yes The Woke Twitterati Intersectionalism is a very danger cult
 

Rommey

Well-Known Member
What Trump did made us less prepared for a pandemic. Less than a year before we were hit with a pandemic and you still can’t bring your self to say maybe that had an effect on the response.
Maybe, maybe not. What do you have to offer other than the unit being disbanded and the duties being handled by other people? Just because the administration didn't do what you personally think they should have done, doesn't mean anything.

Just like you make excuses for Trump not having relapsed his taxes which he said he would do,
I don't think I ever commented on Trump "relapsing" his taxes. But since you asked, I don't think he (or any candidate) should have to release their taxes, since the FEC requires a financial disclosure detailing it all. However, once he said he would release them, I think he should have.

You make excuses for him not building a wall and Mexico not paying for it.
I "make excuses for him not building a wall"??? That's news to me. I didn't make any excuses for him building or not building the wall. By the way the wall IS being built.

Just like you excuse him for not having repealed and replaced Obamacare despite him saying it was his first priority.
I did??

just like you excuse golfing more than Obama despite having served half the time.
I did??

there is nothing you won’t make an excuse for.
Wrong.


You seem to be doing a lot of projecting here. Anyone not subscribing to your way of thinking is automatically guilty of all kinds of discretions in your feeble little, biased mind.
 

22AcaciaAve

Active Member
Where did I say differently?

He attended the rally , didn’t use a mask, got Coronavirus and is dead.

his death along with the other 150,000 Americans was entirely preventable.

if you were morally and ethically consistent you would be outraged considering that is almost 40000 Benghazi’s
If you're going to lay that entirely on Trump, then you also need to go back and lay every flu death of the last two decades on Obama, Bush, and Clinton. At any point they could have ordered masks to be worn, and even shut down the country to prevent the spread of the flu. They could also have ordered every American to get a flu shot....mandatory. That, of course, is ridiculous. Flu deaths happen every year. Were the deaths from the H1N1 flu entirely preventable as well? I don't recall the Obama administration, or the media, doing much of anything about that. In fact, the CDC, at that time, did not recommend the use of face masks.

I will agree that the Trump administration was a bit slow to react, and missteps were made along the way. But they also shut down travel from China early on where democrats were pointing to that as another sign of racist xenophobia on the part of Trump. They then took the unprecedented step of shutting down travel to European countries, which didn't sit very well with our friends in Europe. What do you think Hillary Clinton would have done differently? Do you think she would have been as quick to shut down the airline industry the way it was done? All speculation, of course, but I have a hard time seeing her taking any of those steps given the way she and other democrats were so quick to call Trump a racist for taking them.

Bottom line is that you can't lay all of these deaths on the inaction of any president or even any government. You have thousands of people who ignored advice and went out and protested because they wanted their voices heard. You see thousands of people flocking to resort town and not practicing social distancing, or wearing masks every weekend. What would you have any president do about that? Become a dictator and order people at the threat of military arrest to stay in their houses? Just not going to happen. Diseases exist in the world. There is advice on how to prevent yourself from becoming a victim to those diseases. Take that advice. If you don't take that advice, and you die, how exactly is that the fault of the president? Nobody forced anyone to go to that rally, or to any stupid protest, or to any vacation resort and party. Expecting any one man or one government to offer you total protection and eliminate any deaths is unrealistic. You can dissect the government response and critic it, but laying the deaths of 150,000 people squarely on on man is ridiculous.
 

GURPS

INGSOC
PREMO Member
Just because the administration didn't do what you personally think they should have done, doesn't mean anything.
Situations and Criticism ALWAYS Come Down To A Matter Of OPINION ...... never FACTS

Always Will I THINK Trump ........


Anyone not subscribing to your way of thinking is automatically guilty of all kinds of discretion in your feeble little, biased mind.
Part and Parcel of the Progressive / Twitterati Group Think

The little Eichmann had the temerity to say if you were not OUT Spoken FOR AntiFA you are a Fascist [Secret / Crypto / Hidden] or otherwise
 
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