How long do you think this shutdown will last?
- Thread starter steppinthrax
- Start date
JustStoppingBy
Member
Yes, civil service. No back pay. Swear.
I have heard that people had but nobody I know.
I have heard that people had but nobody I know.
I am not mad at the Federal workers in reality. They are simply absorbing the decisions/incompetence of those above them. That being said, many treat this like a joke and equate it to vacation days. Some panic about the ultimate cashflow disruption/hardship but assuming you've budgeted yourself properly, it's simply time off with payment coming at a later date. There largely isn't a penalty for them. This opinion is based on A LOT of conversation with federal employees (this area is saturated with them of course). I certainly don't wish it to last a long period of time because at some point, the lack of real-time income will become problematic for most after any extended period. I am not sure how many people carry enough liquidity to fund their expenses for a substantial amount of time. Weeks? Maybe. Months? I am betting not many.
My general thought/belief is should the workforce (the federal employee) get fed up with this, they would take action and create a change. Right now, they have no reason to push back because there is largely no penalty for them. As I said, it amounts to paid time off for most (a perk!). If it didn't, they would be in an uproar. If it costs them real money, they would scream. Congress may listen or may not. But if the trend was "time off - no pay", I am betting many would look for employment elsewhere.
Again, I am on the private side. And if we close our doors temporary and don't pay people for that period of time - even a week of time would cause me to lose people. You'd see those "newish" people leaving first. Those without much tie to the place or those with little money in their coffers. Extend that time frame, more people would leave. Make it a trend, and you'd have a hard time retaining (and hiring) people. People have to protect themselves. And as "the boss" in such a situation, I better solve this problem ASAP or else I cannot maintain a business and keep things operational. If I know people will stay and won't hold me accountable - there is no penalty for closing my doors whenever I need to. Same applies to the lawmakers. There is no penalty or repercussion.
Chris0nllyn
Well-Known Member
What has Paul not done that would make you believe that?
He thinks our govt. spying on us without a warrant is bad and thinks it shouldn't happen. He also seems to recognize what is there now, and works with that, including the correct procedures. He asked for a vote, discussion, etc. on this issue and was ignored. He then said he'd filibuster and was denied that.
It's ridiculous to argue that someone who is principaled should ignore those in order to move along with status quo. That's the whole point behind Trump, to not have more of the same, right?
PeoplesElbow
Well-Known Member
Not the furlough, the shutdown. Back when we were only 32 hrs/week that is all you got paid for, that was the furlough.
awpitt
Main Streeter
I'm talking about 2013. The furlough, shutdown, whatever you want to call it. Every civil service person I know got back pay for all of the time the stayed home. Same thing for 1995/96.
PeoplesElbow
Well-Known Member
We did not get back pay for the eight hrs a week lost in 2013 during the summer (July?), however there was a shutdown not long after where some were off for 5 days, all of those people that were off got back pay.
The furlough we talk about here was a navy specific thing to save some money.
EOB people will be paid. If you work for NAWC and had money you worked. If you were a contractor and your contract was funded, you worked.
By law, those on EOB had to stay home, and will receive back pay (as they have in the past) as long as congress puts it in the budget
How many attempted federal job interviews did it take to become this bitter?
I can't speak for Baker12, but I have seen enough in my 30+ years of contracting to know that roughly 30% of NAWCAD/NAVAIR Federal workers could be let go, without any significant impact on Pax River's missions. I'm fairly certain other agencies numbers would reflect the same level of waste. Workloads certainly don't equal the pay and benefits received...
Ha. I didn't go to grad school so I could become a govt worker. But in my line of work, I often have to deal with them. What takes 1 day to happen in the private sector often takes 2 weeks in the govt sector. Incompetence, laziness, ineptitude, all classic traits of those who suck on the govt teat.
Thanks for the generalization and smear. First let me say I have worked on both sides of the fence ... actually all 3 sides if you consider CSS an alternative to private sector.
Like any large organization, and even smaller ones, the government has rules. In the case of the government, those rules often take the form of law and breaking some of those rules can land you in jail. So pardon them for 2 weeks to ensure the I's are dotted and the T crossed. I've dealt with large corporations that couldn't get move off a dime in a year, so risk adverse they couldn't / wouldn't make a decision. When it comes to incompetent employees, I'd say the range of competence is about equal between public and private sector. The government institutionalizes it by having rules that protect the worker from politics. Private industry often turns a blind eye to nepotism and cronyism.
Like any large organization, and even smaller ones, the government has rules. In the case of the government, those rules often take the form of law and breaking some of those rules can land you in jail. So pardon them for 2 weeks to ensure the I's are dotted and the T crossed. I've dealt with large corporations that couldn't get move off a dime in a year, so risk adverse they couldn't / wouldn't make a decision. When it comes to incompetent employees, I'd say the range of competence is about equal between public and private sector. The government institutionalizes it by having rules that protect the worker from politics. Private industry often turns a blind eye to nepotism and cronyism.
I wonder if that perception will change as the old guard retires/dies. The younger civ workforce is completely different from the stereotypes but it's also much harder to get hired now.
No, I doubt it. People see what they want to see.
I'm not going to deny there are some real jagoffs in the government, they are unprofessional, disinterested and are ethically challenged.
They go beyond lazy, to judge their competence they would actually have to attempt to work.
But they are a minority.
Pax is changing to a more professional workforce but as you say, some of the old guard will have to move on.
NATC did not share the same employment practices as did some of the R&D agencies in both the Navy and other branches of DoD.
NATC was given dispensation, did not have the same requirements for undergraduate and graduate level degrees.
Nepotism was openly tolerated, as was cronyism. Other installations would not have tolerated more than two individuals from the same household to work on base let alone in the same chain of command. There are people who still feel too comfortable in their job.
So is private business, industry, academia...no segment of society is immune.
I agree. But government has a much higher percentage