How stupid!!!

[Cowgirl]

...but isn't it pretty clear that that kid is exceptional in size, strength, balance and all?

No, it is not clear at all. The girl's feet don't even reach past the skirt of the saddle. She is holding the reins at the buckle. She wouldn't be able to stop that horse for anything. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if the child was riding a small pony, but I still think she'd be safer with a helmet.

I mean, do we immediately assume malignant or negligent parents because the kid isn't wearing body armor?

Body armor? C'mon, Larry.

 

[vraiblonde]

Unlawful? I hadn't heard they outlawed abortion.

Re-read what I wrote, please.

And doesn't this scenario remind you of the 2 year old child that was placed on the 4-wheeler?

Actually, it does. The horse seems way to big for that little girl, and I'm not convinced it's a good idea to let her ride like that even WITH a helmet. However, again, when killing your unborn child is legal in this country, I can't be concerned with helmets.

 

[Cowgirl]

Re-read what I wrote, please.

I even quoted you and didn't read it correctly.

Anyways, I was just expressing my opinion. :shrug: We're all allowed to do that .

 

[vraiblonde]

Anyways, I was just expressing my opinion. :shrug: We're all allowed to do that .

Of course. And I'm just expressing my opinion back.

 

[itsbob]

If I ever did something as stupid as putting a small child on a horse without a helmet, and letting her run all willy-nilly all over the place (which I would NEVER do), and then posted the pics on the internet, I would expect people to comment on how stupid it was.

Depends on where you are from.. Liberal MD where we all have to be saved from ourselves.. yep.. put the parents in jail..

In Wyoming or Montana.. it's probably a normal occurence.. hell, the kid probably drove the truck and trailer there to compete in the under 10 rodeo..

I'm fine with it, and think it's an awesome picture.. I'd be one proud dad if it was my kid

 

[Larry Gude]

She wouldn't be...

No, it is not clear at all. The girl's feet don't even reach past the skirt of the saddle. She is holding the reins at the buckle. She wouldn't be able to stop that horse for anything. Maybe it wouldn't be so bad if the child was riding a small pony, but I still think she'd be safer with a helmet.



Body armor? C'mon, Larry.

...able to stop the horse? So, it's still going or simply dropped dead? People get hurt and die in this world every single day' slip in the bath tub, joke on a piece of food, walk in front of a bus.

Have you ever ridden? If so, you know, in addition to being sometimes profoundly dumb, stubborn and unpredictable, horses are often very intelligent, reliable and predictable. I've been on horse I could have basically taken a nap, at a gallop, all the way back to the barn. I've been on horses that were basically acting like they were trying to kill me and themselves.

Personally, I'm not a horse person and I haven't ridden in over 30 years but, that's me. When I see that picture, I see a kid far from afraid and, obviously, far from being on a horse for the first time. I see a horse and a kid some adult(s) decided were up to the task. And that's them.

Why isn't that OK and unremarkable? We used to be a paternalistic people; do what you want but don't come crying to me when you get hurt. Now, we're maternalistic and want to prevent any and all sorts of discomfort, injury and death and we do it to the point of telling people what they can and can not do; seat belts, helmets, and now, we go so far as to worry about the smell of cigarettes and the effect, over a a lifetime, of a chosen activity.

It's take many, many years to get people to accept that they have no right to decide quite a few things for themselves and their children, including, oxymoronically, the 'right' to self defense because, gasp, someone might get hurt! But now, that 'horse' has left the barn and we are now a maternalistic society.

And horse people know how difficult it can be, sometimes, to get a horse back in.

 

[Larry Gude]

Really?

Body armor? We are asking for a simple helmet for a child that is under 18 years old that doesnt have the experience or knowledge to make that decision for themselves. Which is usually why there are rules at shows that kids under 18 are REQUIRED to wear one.

Why stop there? I know some people well over 18 who have trouble making decisions. I have no doubt you'd include me in that group. Point is, so what??? The state can't and should not be there at all times and at all places.
I see a happy kid. You see a victim of neglect.

If the goal is to protect the child, most people know that helmets tend to help with only superficial injuries and if the kid falls on their neck, their gonna get crippled or die with less boo boos. They're probably smart, but body armor or out right prohibition or air bags or a saddle belt might be better.

So, is the goal child safety or not?

 

[Cowgirl]

...able to stop the horse? So, it's still going or simply dropped dead? People get hurt and die in this world every single day' slip in the bath tub, joke on a piece of food, walk in front of a bus.

Have you ever ridden? If so, you know, in addition to being sometimes profoundly dumb, stubborn and unpredictable, horses are often very intelligent, reliable and predictable. I've been on horse I could have basically taken a nap, at a gallop, all the way back to the barn. I've been on horses that were basically acting like they were trying to kill me and themselves.

Personally, I'm not a horse person and I haven't ridden in over 30 years but, that's me. When I see that picture, I see a kid far from afraid and, obviously, far from being on a horse for the first time. I see a horse and a kid some adult(s) decided were up to the task. And that's them.

Why isn't that OK and unremarkable? We used to be a paternalistic people; do what you want but don't come crying to me when you get hurt. Now, we're maternalistic and want to prevent any and all sorts of discomfort, injury and death and we do it to the point of telling people what they can and can not do; seat belts, helmets, and now, we go so far as to worry about the smell of cigarettes and the effect, over a a lifetime, of a chosen activity.

It's take many, many years to get people to accept that they have no right to decide quite a few things for themselves and their children, including, oxymoronically, the 'right' to self defense because, gasp, someone might get hurt! But now, that 'horse' has left the barn and we are now a maternalistic society.

And horse people know how difficult it can be, sometimes, to get a horse back in.

I'll try to make this short and sweet. I don't know if the child could stop the horse. It appears she was barrel racing. Have you ever seen barrel horses? They tend to be very excited to "go go go." They typically don't have alot of room to stop when they come out of the ring. I'm willing to bet her parents had to catch the horse when she came out of the gate. Of course she looks unafraid. Children are typically that way.

Yes, I have ridden....for many years. That's why I say it is especially important for children to wear helmets. Yes, there are many push-button horses out there. I happened to be on a ride with a 5 year old boy on a push-button horse. That horse decided to buck and flipped that boy off before his mother could blink. The boy was knocked out cold. After seeing the limp body of that small child, I think it's stupid that any parent would put their child on a horse without a helmet. Yes, that's my opinion. Some people think that's fine. I don't know why they'd want to risk it, but they do.

I never said there should be a law for children to wear helmets. And I don't really care what adults do. If they want to be stupid, then let them be. I just get irritated when I see children without helmets, seatbelts, etc.

 

[itsbob]

I'll try to make this short and sweet. I don't know if the child could stop the horse. It appears she was barrel racing. Have you ever seen barrel horses? They tend to be very excited to "go go go." They typically don't have alot of room to stop when they come out of the ring. I'm willing to bet her parents had to catch the horse when she came out of the gate. Of course she looks unafraid. Children are typically that way.

Yes, I have ridden....for many years. That's why I say it is especially important for children to wear helmets. Yes, there are many push-button horses out there. I happened to be on a ride with a 5 year old boy on a push-button horse. That horse decided to buck and flipped that boy off before his mother could blink. The boy was knocked out cold. After seeing the limp body of that small child, I think it's stupid that any parent would put their child on a horse without a helmet. Yes, that's my opinion. Some people think that's fine. I don't know why they'd want to risk it, but they do.

I never said there should be a law for children to wear helmets. And I don't really care what adults do. If they want to be stupid, then let them be. I just get irritated when I see children without helmets, seatbelts, etc.

Again, where-ever this was it's probably acceptable behavior, and probably a better place to live.. apparently the gov't isn't in their living rooms.

I don't know of juvenile equestrian accidents being THAT critical that we (or the government) should be concerned OR involved.

Although with the governments assistance 3 wheel ATV's are illegal because they are unsafe, yet more people were more seriously injured and killed on horses in the same timeframe used to determine the safety of the ATV's.. therefore using your nannystate logic about this child, horses should be illegal.. where are you going to post the petition so I can sign it?

Turn all your horses into ELmers.. you aren't safe on them, it's for your own good!!

 

[Cowgirl]

Again, where-ever this was it's probably acceptable behavior, and probably a better place to live.. apparently the gov't isn't in their living rooms.

I don't know of juvenile equestrian accidents being THAT critical that we (or the government) should be concerned OR involved.

Although with the governments assistance 3 wheel ATV's are illegal because they are unsafe, yet more people were more seriously injured and killed on horses in the same timeframe used to determine the safety of the ATV's.. therefore using your nannystate logic about this child, horses should be illegal.. where are you going to post the petition so I can sign it?

Turn all your horses into ELmers.. you aren't safe on them, it's for your own good!!

Bob, do you buckle baby Bubba in a carseat when you drive?

 

[vraiblonde]

Cowgirl, they must not have had "1984" and "Brave New World" as required reading when you were in high school.

 

[Cowgirl]

Cowgirl, they must not have had "1984" and "Brave New World" as required reading when you were in high school.

No, they didn't. You know, I'm wondering why my saying "I think children should wear helmets" makes you, Larry, and Itsbob think I'm saying there should be a helmet law and the government should control everything we do.

I never said I thought there should be a helmet law. I don't know why y'all have to turn this into a "nannystate government" thread. :shrug: There are already numerous threads about how evil and controlling our government is.

 

[happyappygirl]

Just for the record, SMTR is going to consider and (prolly) vote on requiring helmets on all riders under 18, at all rides in the very near future. For insurance purposes if nothing else. Affordable Insurance is difficult to get at all now, so why take additional risk?

 

[Larry Gude]

How...

No, they didn't. You know, I'm wondering why my saying "I think children should wear helmets" makes you, Larry, and Itsbob think I'm saying there should be a helmet law and the government should control everything we do.

I never said I thought there should be a helmet law. I don't know why y'all have to turn this into a "nannystate government" thread. :shrug: There are already numerous threads about how evil and controlling our government is.

...do you suppose a smoking ban, in bars, came about? How do you think a law, with fines, came about mandating seat belts?

Because people, like you, looked and said "I think people should wear seat belts and people should not smoke" and voted accordingly. The only way in hell a politician can pass legislation mandating behavior is will the consent of the governed.

If that kid in this thread should or should not be wearing a helmet, in a free society, it should be up to the parents, the people responsible for the child. In a nation such as we have become it has become perfectly acceptable to say you MUST put a helmet on YOUR kid, you MUST wear a seat belt and you are NOT permitted to smoke in BARS.

The whole entire debate is whether or not that is an appropriate function of government. I say it is NOT. None of them.

What's wrong with PSA's that say "Your kid is X percent less likely to be crippled in a bicycle crash/horse crash/car crash if they are wearing this device or that." ??? Why isn't advice good enough anymore? Why is control so important?

People switched to lite beer over commercials. People ate jelly beans just because they sat on a presidents desk. Damn, women will wear the oddest things just because of a fashion magazine or serve this dish because of a cooking show.

The desire, the will to control others in the land of the free and the home of the brave doesn't repel the sensibilities of people anymore. It animates them.
We don't have a civil society anymore when we desire to exercise control over one another.

 

[Larry Gude]

Why shouldn't...

Just for the record, SMTR is going to consider and (prolly) vote on requiring helmets on all riders under 18, at all rides in the very near future. For insurance purposes if nothing else. Affordable Insurance is difficult to get at all now, so why take additional risk?

...the parent be assuming the risk? Is SMTR liable if a horse kicks someone or bolts or slams the brakes on or trips? What if someone gets swatted in the eye by a tail?

 

[toppick08]

Cowgirl, they must not have had "1984" and "Brave New World" as required reading when you were in high school.

I love '84.....

 

[Larry Gude]

I don't believe for...

I'll try to make this short and sweet. I don't know if the child could stop the horse. It appears she was barrel racing. Have you ever seen barrel horses? They tend to be very excited to "go go go." They typically don't have alot of room to stop when they come out of the ring. I'm willing to bet her parents had to catch the horse when she came out of the gate. Of course she looks unafraid. Children are typically that way.

Yes, I have ridden....for many years. That's why I say it is especially important for children to wear helmets. Yes, there are many push-button horses out there. I happened to be on a ride with a 5 year old boy on a push-button horse. That horse decided to buck and flipped that boy off before his mother could blink. The boy was knocked out cold. After seeing the limp body of that small child, I think it's stupid that any parent would put their child on a horse without a helmet. Yes, that's my opinion. Some people think that's fine. I don't know why they'd want to risk it, but they do.

I never said there should be a law for children to wear helmets. And I don't really care what adults do. If they want to be stupid, then let them be. I just get irritated when I see children without helmets, seatbelts, etc.

...a second you're a horse person. If you were you'd known darn well an ill trained or temperamental horse is difficult for anyone to stop when it doesn't want to. You'd know that parents, typically, put their kids on the better trained and better behaved animals and you'd know barrel horses are some of the best trained horses there are AND you'd know no one in their right mind would plan on stopping a horse from the ground. It's not much fun nor particularly effective in an emergency.

As far as 'knocked out cold' goes, a show of hands, please, of the adults who have NOT been hurt horseback riding?

FWIW, when I was taught to ride, I had to wear a stupid English helmet and of all the times I fell or was thrown not once did the 'hat' even stay on let alone protect me nor would it have done anything for the kid you saw knocked out. I have bruised ribs, sprained wrists, got up unscathed, been kicked, bit and damn near crushed up against the stall.

Now, if someone was rational and loved me, wrist guards, flack jacket, full motorcycle helmet and face shield, motorcycle boots and race gear and steel toes might have come in handy.

 

[Cowgirl]

...a second you're a horse person. If you were you'd known darn well an ill trained or temperamental horse is difficult for anyone to stop when it doesn't want to. You'd know that parents, typically, put their kids on the better trained and better behaved animals and you'd know barrel horses are some of the best trained horses there are AND you'd know no one in their right mind would plan on stopping a horse from the ground. It's not much fun nor particularly effective in an emergency.

That's bull####. Yes, parents typically put their children on the well-behaved horses. BUT-being a horse person, I know that horses aren't machines. They have minds of their own! That's EXACTLY why I think children should wear helmets. No horse is bomb-proof unless it's dead. ANY horse can rear, buck, roll, etc...just like ANY dog can bite.

And stopping horses from the ground? It's done all the time. Watch horse shows, watch races. Horses are controlled all the time from the ground.

As far as 'knocked out cold' goes, a show of hands, please, of the adults who have NOT been hurt horseback riding?

Oh, so it's ok that the 5 year old got knocked-out because others have been, too?

FWIW, when I was taught to ride, I had to wear a stupid English helmet and of all the times I fell or was thrown not once did the 'hat' even stay on let alone protect me nor would it have done anything for the kid you saw knocked out.

Then your helmet must not have been secured properly. You don't think the kid would have gotten knocked out if he'd had a helmet on? I bet his concussion wouldn't have been so bad. He probably wouldn't have even gotten knocked out.

 

[vraiblonde]

You know, I'm wondering why my saying "I think children should wear helmets" makes you, Larry, and Itsbob think I'm saying there should be a helmet law and the government should control everything we do.

Because that's how it starts.

 

[Cowgirl]

Because that's how it starts.

So, are we supposed to be against every law the government makes? I mean, c'mon, if they make a law against drunk driving, they may eventually make a law outlawing alcohol!