I have a question:

[Bruzilla]

Thank God for Charlie Schummer!!! He's going to have a press conference with Joe Wilson to call for Rove to lose his security clearance, defacto meaning he can't work at the White House. Schumer's going to go on the record a supporting Wilson and his claims despite the fact that even the NYT is calling into question what he has said.

Maybe this will make people forget about the Schaivo debacle.

http://www.drudgereport.com/flash4.htm

SCHUMER STANDS WITH AMBASSADOR JOE WILSON TO ASK FOR SUSPENSION OF ROVE'S SECURITY CLEARANCE

Thu Jul 14 2005 11:15:02 ET

White House Should Suspend Deputy Chief of Staff's Security Clearance Information While Investigation is Pending, Until Plame Leak Is Resolved

In Light Of Time Reporter Matt Cooper's Confirmation That Rove Was a Source In the Leak of CIA Agent Valerie Plame's Identity, Schumer and Wilson Call For Suspension of Rove's Security Clearance

U.S. Senator Chuck Schumer and Ambassador Joseph Wilson will hold a press conference at 3:00pm TODAY, July 14, 2005 in the Mansfield Room of the U.S. Capitol to call for the suspension of White House Deputy Chief of Staff Karl Rove' security clearance until the investigation of the leak of CIA Agent Valerie Plame's identity is resolved.

Israel S. Klein
Communications Director
U.S. Senator Chuck Schumer

 

[Bruzilla]

Where are you getting your information please? I'm interested in reading this for myself.

It's all over just about every news source. I've just been checking the Drudgereport site every few hours. This story keeps getting better and better!

 

[Bruzilla]

Speaking of Drudge, he has links to the RNC and DNC websites that give the takes of both sides on the Rove issue. As expected, the DNC site is covered with unsubstantiated allegations, rumors, speculation, and BS. The RNC just has the facts of the case, the documented facts, on their site.

http://www.gop.com/News/Read.aspx?ID=5630

http://www.democrats.org/a/2005/07/empty_rhetoric.php

You would think that the Dems would have learned by now that the facts on most everything are getting out past their media outlets these days.

 

[Bruzilla]

That was one of my questions - there's no way in hell she would go to jail to protect Karl Rove. No way in hell. So who IS she protecting???

My second question is that if Cooper was given the go-ahead to reveal his source....then who is it? (Edit: never mind. I just read that Rove was his source. But if that's the case, then Rove obviously did nothing wrong or he wouldn't have released Cooper from confidentiality.)

So now my question is: who's Miller's source? Because it's not Rove or she would be free to speak as well, right?

What I think is vital info is that Rove waived all claims to confidentiality well over a year ago. This BS about a last-minute phone call to Cooper is just that... BS. I've heard two versions of the phone call: One is that Cooper's attorney called Rove's attorney to verify that the waiver was legitimate (there was alledgedly some thought that Rove had been pressured to sign the release, and the attorney wanted to verify that the signing had been voluntary), and the second was that Rove's attorney called Cooper's attorney to remind them that there had been a waiver signed in 2003/2004 and that Rove had no claim to confidentiality. Either way, Rove has in fact been saying he has nothing to hide since Dec 03/Jan 04, not just for the past two weeks.

Another question this raises was all the boo-hoo-hoo from Cooper about how he had kissed his son goodbye, certain that he was going to jail, etc. He's known for months that he wasn't going to jail to protect Rove.

So you're right.. the BIG question is who is Miller protecting? The special prosecutor has already said that Rove is no longer the target of the investigation, so one wonders who is getting a hard enough look that the prosecutor/judge will lock up a reporter to get the answer, and the reporter will deal with four months of jail to protect?

 

[Bruzilla]

And the plot grows ever and ever thicker... From the Washington Post:

"Miller was jailed for refusing to identify her source to a grand jury investigating the leak of a CIA operative's identity. U.S. Attorney Patrick Fitzgerald, who is prosecuting the case, is also seeking the telephone records of Miller and fellow Times reporter Philip Shenon in a separate investigation of a leak about a planned FBI raid on the Global Relief Foundation, an Islamic charity suspected of funding terrorism."

Ss, there's a chance that this isn't even about Wilson/Rove, but about this seperate investigation.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/07/06/AR2005070601799.html

 

[tomchamp]

How about dipshit?

Getting better!

 

[wharfrat2]

The plot thickens as some more facts come to light...

Apparently, Karl Rove signed an unlimited release from confidentiality for anything he may have told anyone, at anytime, about the Joe Wilson's Wife incident. But he didn't sign it the day that Matt Cooper tearfully talked about how his source had made an eleventh hour gesture and told him that he could go ahead and testify... he signed it in December or January of 2004! And these reporters and their lawyers were told by the special prosecutor back then that Rove had waived all of his rights to confidentiality!!! So, where's all this "Rove tried to hide his involvement until the last minute" crap coming from? Now I'm reading that Matt Cooper is married to none other than Mandy Grunwald, one of the go-to Democrats that's always on one tv show or another denouncing Bush or Republicans et al, and a member of Hillary's staff. Hmmm... that's a clue!

This is also why Judith Miller is now in jail. The judge knew that Rove waived his protection from disclosure well over a year ago, so who/what is she protecting? It can't be Rove.

Does everybody on this forum get all their information from Fox News? There is no way that Karl Rove didn't know he was outing a CIA operative.
Joe Wilson's wife goes by Valerie Wilson. Rove didn't have to mention her by name. He claim of ignorance/innocence is about as bogus as everything else that comes out of this administration. It's time for Bush to stand by his earlier pledge to fire someone if it turned out the leak came from the White House staff.

As bad as Bob Ehrlich is at least he fired the guy who tried to smear Martin O'Malley.

 

[neener]

Does everybody on this forum get all their information from Fox News? There is no way that Karl Rove didn't know he was outing a CIA operative.
Joe Wilson's wife goes by Valerie Wilson. Rove didn't have to mention her by name. He claim of ignorance/innocence is about as bogus as everything else that comes out of this administration. It's time for Bush to stand by his earlier pledge to fire someone if it turned out the leak came from the White House staff.

As bad as Bob Ehrlich is at least he fired the guy who tried to smear Martin O'Malley.

Weren't you just on here trying to illegally pirate music?

 

[wharfrat2]

http://www.phishhook.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=504384

 

[wharfrat2]

Weren't you just on here trying to illegally pirate music?

No, I was on here offering up copies of shows by bands that support taping and trading. None of which are available commercially.

 

[Larry Gude]

As a practical matter...

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,162227,00.html

It's not looking good for ol' Karl Rove. But why do we care about this? Is Valerie Plame that important that someone knowing she works for the CIA would threaten our national security?

...this doesn't mean a damn thing. Novak wrote a column shortly after his first column touched a nerve stating, flatly, that Valerie Plame as an 'undercover' CIA spook was the worst kept secret in DC and was also common knowledge to our 'enemies' the world over. Her and Joe were an A list couple and everybody knew who she was and what she did. Further, she was not and had not been on any kind of 'undercover' James Bond stuff. Ever. Which means none of her contnacts where in danger either. There were none.

She is like the 100's of people who work at US Emabassies around the world, ostensibly for the State Department, but actually work for the CIA. Her 'spying' was going to cocktail parties and reporting back what she gleaned from loose lipped drunks.

As a legal matter it seems pretty clear the law was broken and that is not OK. If Rove broke the law, he has to pay the price unless it can be proven that what Novak says is true. Rove can't decide what secrets to let out. It's not his place.

But neither should he be in trouble if everyone, people who should not know, already knew.

 

[neener]

No, I was on here offering up copies of shows by bands that support taping and trading. None of which are available commercially.

Then why wouldn't you just put links to their websites so that visitors can download in good conscience? If they wanted the public to have their stuff for free, they'd put it on their website and let us have at it, right?

 

[wharfrat2]

Then why wouldn't you just put links to their websites so that visitors can download in good conscience? If they wanted the public to have their stuff for free, they'd put it on their website and let us have at it, right?

Here for example is Phish's policy http://www.phish.com/guidelines/index.php?category=6 The other bands mentioned in the thread in which I was offering shows have similar policies.

 

[Ken King]

Here for example is Phish's policy http://www.phish.com/guidelines/index.php?category=6 The other bands mentioned in the thread in which I was offering shows have similar policies.

And here is the federal Law governing what it is you are doing.

TITLE 17 > CHAPTER 11 > § 1101

§ 1101. Unauthorized fixation and trafficking in sound recordings and music videos

(a) Unauthorized Acts.— Anyone who, without the consent of the performer or performers involved—
(1) fixes the sounds or sounds and images of a live musical performance in a copy or phonorecord, or reproduces copies or phonorecords of such a performance from an unauthorized fixation,
(2) transmits or otherwise communicates to the public the sounds or sounds and images of a live musical performance, or
(3) distributes or offers to distribute, sells or offers to sell, rents or offers to rent, or traffics in any copy or phonorecord fixed as described in paragraph (1), regardless of whether the fixations occurred in the United States,
shall be subject to the remedies provided in sections 502 through 505, to the same extent as an infringer of copyright.
(b) Definition.— As used in this section, the term “traffic in” means transport, transfer, or otherwise dispose of, to another, as consideration for anything of value, or make or obtain control of with intent to transport, transfer, or dispose of.
(c) Applicability.— This section shall apply to any act or acts that occur on or after the date of the enactment of the Uruguay Round Agreements Act.
(d) State Law Not Preempted.— Nothing in this section may be construed to annul or limit any rights or remedies under the common law or statutes of any State.

And from the referenced link you provided –

“Audience taping at Phish concerts is authorized for non-commercial purposes only. Unauthorized sale, duplication and/or distribution are strictly forbidden.”

 

[itsbob]

Does everybody on this forum get all their information from Fox News? There is no way that Karl Rove didn't know he was outing a CIA operative.
Joe Wilson's wife goes by Valerie Wilson. Rove didn't have to mention her by name. He claim of ignorance/innocence is about as bogus as everything else that comes out of this administration. It's time for Bush to stand by his earlier pledge to fire someone if it turned out the leak came from the White House staff.

As bad as Bob Ehrlich is at least he fired the guy who tried to smear Martin O'Malley.

They have the typed message from Rove, he's never denied it, and releaased the press from any and all confidentiality concerns on his part over 6 months ago.. where's the guilt.. I'll show you how guilty he is.. not ONE demoncrat has the cajones to stand up and ask for Bush to fire him.. I watched CNN this morning, no Ted K video... no Pelosi, she'is shying away from the cameras. Why? because they know he didn't do anything wrong, and they don't want their names associated with it when he does get exonerated. Matter of fact I'm starting to wonder if this isn't a media ploy.. ALL I kept hearing this moring is "Democrats are asking Bush to Fire him.." "Democrats ask for Rove's resignation.." Did NOT hear.. "TEd Kennedy asked president Bush.." Or "Pelosi tells Rove to quit.." it's all these strangely anonymous democrats. Or should we just insert CNN or Ted Turner everywhere we see or hear "The Democrats"??

 

[itsbob]

Wison “No. My wife served as a conduit, as I put in my book. When her supervisors asked her to contact me for the purposes of coming into the CIA to discuss all the issues surrounding this allegation of Niger selling uranium to Iraq.”



AHHHHH THERE'S the answer!! he's getting RICH making unfounded accusations!!

 

[Bruzilla]

Does everybody on this forum get all their information from Fox News? There is no way that Karl Rove didn't know he was outing a CIA operative.
Joe Wilson's wife goes by Valerie Wilson. Rove didn't have to mention her by name. He claim of ignorance/innocence is about as bogus as everything else that comes out of this administration. It's time for Bush to stand by his earlier pledge to fire someone if it turned out the leak came from the White House staff.

That's an interesting take. Even though Wilson has now come out and acknowledged publicly that his wife was no longer a covert operative at the time she was working at the office on counter proliferation, I have to ask why you're so certain that there's no way that Rove didn't know he was outing a CIA operative?

First, nobody at the White House even knew that anything was even going on, including Wilson's trip to Niger, until Wilson wrote his annonymous op-ed piece. Do you think that Rove fills his days in the White House peering through random personnel files of CIA, FBI, NSA, etc., employees on the off chance that he might need to defame or out one? How was he able to get a copy of Wilson's wife's file without anyone noticing it? I doubt the access to records of covert operatives is via an unlocked file cabinet in the personnel office as that information is very closely guarded, hence the penalties for disclosing it. So... how is it that there's no way he didn't know? What he knew was what everybody else knew through the political dinner circles in Washington, that being that Wilson's wife worked at the CIA, not that she had ever been a covert operative. By the way... she had a CIA HQ pass on her car, so she can't have been too covert at the time.

Also, if there's no way that he couldn't have known she was a covert operative (even thought she wasn't) then why didn't the prosecutor indict him already? If there truly was no way he didn't know, then there must have been a way for the grand jury to find guilt. Yet they know all of the facts to date and haven't indicted, while you know none of the facts and have indicted. Hmmmm... who to side with....

 

[Bruzilla]

Matter of fact I'm starting to wonder if this isn't a media ploy..

Have you noticed that she's always referred to as a "CIA Operative" or a "CIA Covert Operative" even though she's just another CIA employee and has been for years?