I Know We Don't Need Another Reason to Dislike Howard Dean but...

[BuddyLee]

Why do they have elections on Tuesdays anyway?

 

[ylexot]

Well, it's mandated by law, but why the first Tuesday in November?

For much of our history, America was a predominantly agrarian society. Law makers therefore took into account that November was perhaps the most convenient month for farmers and rural workers to be able to travel to the polls.

The fall harvest was over, (remember that spring was planting time and summer was taken up with working the fields and tending the crops) but in the majority of the nation the weather was still mild enough to permit travel over unimproved roads.

Why Tuesday?
Since most residents of rural America had to travel a significant distance to the county seat in order to vote, Monday was not considered reasonable since many people would need to begin travel on Sunday. This would, of course, have conflicted with Church services and Sunday worship.

Why the first Tuesday after the first Monday? Lawmakers wanted to prevent election day from falling on the first of November for two reasons. First, November 1st is All Saints Day, a Holy Day of Obligation for Roman Catholics. Second, most merchants were in the habit of doing their books from the preceding month on the 1st. Apparently, Congress was worried that the economic success or failure of the previous month might prove an undue influence on the vote!

I didn't know any of that myself, so now I know...and knowing is half the battle.

 

[Bruzilla]

For a bunch of guys who are alledged to not want to have anything to do with religion, they sure went out of their way to arrange the most important aspect of democracy by taking religion into account at just about every turn.

 

[SamSpade]

For a bunch of guys who are alledged to not want to have anything to do with religion, they sure went out of their way to arrange the most important aspect of democracy by taking religion into account at just about every turn.

Really? You see it that way? Funny, it seemed EXACTLY for the same pragmatic reasons that were discussed on the religion forum regarding Christmas as a federal holiday - that, for all practical reasons, it might as well be, because mandated or not, the office WILL be empty that day. You can *legislate* that kids be in school on Christmas - but nobody will show up. They will all take a powder.

Same thing here - it's not so much respect for religion as it is practicality - you WANT people to be there, and you don't want to create roadblocks so that people will have to forego elections, because they're *going* to put religion above their civic duties.

For this reason, I see a really good reason for having a federal holiday on election day - just as it is done in many other countries. With that, there'll be no intelligent reason for holding the polls open late, and people have every opportunity to go. Same principle as the Tuesday thing - accommodate people's existing needs.

Although I'm impressed by anyone who ever travelled more than a day to go vote.

 

[Bruzilla]

Good points, but your points are ancillary to the point I was making. All of the decisions made effecting voting were based on Christian issues, not Muslim, Wickin, Jewish, etc. That showed a clear preference on the part of the founding fathers to the Christian religion, something that folks today like to say the Founding Fathers were against. By focusing on Christian issues, the Founding Fathers were displaying an obvious preference for that religion over all others, which some would say (wrongly) is a violation of the Establishment Clause.

 

[vraiblonde]

I'm busy on the first Tuesday in November. Can we either do it another day or maybe stretch it out over several days?



Polls are open from early morning to late evening, leaving plenty of time for anyone to vote, regardless of your work schedule. This "they should make it a holiday" business is just an excuse. I will submit that those who don't vote now will not vote then - they'll just enjoy their day off.

The reason people don't vote is not because it's inconvenient, it's because they're apathetic. Every year they do a poll to see how informed "voters" are and every year the results are staggering, like 70% of all polled can't even name one of the candidates or something outrageous like that.

This is no lie: Larry and I went into the High's a week before the 2000 election and did an informal poll of the cashiers and customers - only 1 out of 6 or 7 could name both major party candidates. Several of them didn't even realize that our sitting VP was in the running!!!!

So I think they should actually make it harder and more inconvenient to vote - then the dummies will stay away.

 

[SamSpade]

Good points, but your points are ancillary to the point I was making. All of the decisions made effecting voting were based on Christian issues, not Muslim, Wickin, Jewish, etc. That showed a clear preference on the part of the founding fathers to the Christian religion, something that folks today like to say the Founding Fathers were against. By focusing on Christian issues, the Founding Fathers were displaying an obvious preference for that religion over all others, which some would say (wrongly) is a violation of the Establishment Clause.

No, it's still PRACTICAL, and not necessarily Christian-biased. It's just a simple fact that at that time, the majority - by a substantial margin - of the voting population were Christian. It makes sense to make allowances for large portions of the population, without encumbering the rules to make allowances for every SINGLE PERSON in the population - that's impossible.

In another thread, someone observed that, in NYC, they make allowances for *Jewish* holidays in public schools - because a HUGE portion of the school-going public is Jewish. They DON'T make exceptions for "Wiccans" or "Pagans" simply out of practicality. It's one thing when 25% of your students will be gone due to Yom Kippur - it's another when .001% will be out celebrating Samhain or Saturnalia. Maybe it seems like bias, but we continue to this day to adjust our behavior based on simple practicality, and not so much on trying to 'honor' any religion.

The fact is that religion played a much more substantial role in daily life then, than it does now. For the same 'practicality', schools let out for the summer, because those were farming months. I'm fully in favor of eliminating that ridiculous antiquated observation.

 

[Bruzilla]

For the same 'practicality', schools let out for the summer, because those were farming months. I'm fully in favor of eliminating that ridiculous antiquated observation.

Why in World would you want to do that???

 

[BuddyLee]

I'm busy on the first Tuesday in November. Can we either do it another day or maybe stretch it out over several days?



Polls are open from early morning to late evening, leaving plenty of time for anyone to vote, regardless of your work schedule. This "they should make it a holiday" business is just an excuse. I will submit that those who don't vote now will not vote then - they'll just enjoy their day off.

The reason people don't vote is not because it's inconvenient, it's because they're apathetic. Every year they do a poll to see how informed "voters" are and every year the results are staggering, like 70% of all polled can't even name one of the candidates or something outrageous like that.

This is no lie: Larry and I went into the High's a week before the 2000 election and did an informal poll of the cashiers and customers - only 1 out of 6 or 7 could name both major party candidates. Several of them didn't even realize that our sitting VP was in the running!!!!

So I think they should actually make it harder and more inconvenient to vote - then the dummies will stay away.

Agreed. However, the reasons for having elections on Tuesday seem so outdated now. Should we stick with the tradition or get with the times?

 

[vraiblonde]

Should we stick with the tradition or get with the times?

Well, what would be "getting with the times"? Tuesday is just as good as any day for me. Weekends are bad because I'm usually busy. Plus the kids would complain about not getting their day off school. It's pretty easy to pop in and vote on my way to work or on my way home. :shrug:

 

[Ken King]

Didn't Maryland just make it election week? Be right back.

 

[Ken King]

Didn't Maryland just make it election week? Be right back.

Ehrlich vetoed it on 5/20/2005.

 

[BuddyLee]

Well, what would be "getting with the times"? Tuesday is just as good as any day for me. Weekends are bad because I'm usually busy. Plus the kids would complain about not getting their day off school. It's pretty easy to pop in and vote on my way to work or on my way home. :shrug:

How about Sunday, the day off, the day of rest. If this country is not about government imposing on religion and vise versa then why not?

 

[FromTexas]

BTW - A good number of states require employers to give employees time off to vote. Some even do it requiring PAID leave. You wanna guess some of the states with paid leave?

According to FindLaw: Ohio, New York, Texas, California, Maryland, and quite a number of others are on that list. They usually require paid leave if the employee will have less than 3 hours to vote after work hours.

 

[FromTexas]

How about Sunday, the day off, the day of rest. If this country is not about government imposing on religion and vise versa then why not?

Well, a number of reasons:
1) Ever notice how many polling places are located at churches?
2) Ever notice that the government has laws that allow people to take religious holidays off without penalty for all religions? (This includes an employer can not legally punish you for not working a Sunday)

 

[SamSpade]

How about Sunday, the day off, the day of rest. If this country is not about government imposing on religion and vise versa then why not?

I'm not sure why not, either. A lot of countries have theirs on Sunday - a quick Google showed me Iraq, Ukraine, Spain, Mexico - and I know I've heard of a lot more.

My guess is, maybe people objecting on religious grounds? (Although I can't understand WHY - some churches have political speakers address the flock, and others have polling places there).

If you're too busy to vote on a DAY YOU DON'T HAVE TO WORK - then you're just too busy to vote.

 

[ylexot]

More Dean...

Dean also responded directly to Cheney, who last week said of Dean, "Maybe his mother loved him, but I've never met anybody who does." "I don't care if Dick Cheney likes my mother or not, we are going to fight back," Dean told a boisterous crowd of about 300 Democrats at the Boston Park Plaza Hotel.

No wonder you think the Republicans lie...you can't comprehend simple statements! Let me break it down for ya Howie...Cheney doesn't like YOU and he hasn't met anyone who likes YOU.