Impeachment

Chris0nllyn

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
GURPS said:
What is NORMAL Sapidus ..... NORMAL is what ever the President wants it to be ..... he is the BOSS, he sets POLICY With Other Countries
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Good point.

Since it was the US's (and EU's, IMF's, etc.) policy to rid Ukraine of corruption at the time, Biden did nothing wrong when he withheld loan guarantees at the behest of official US policy. Right?

Because in that case, Biden was furthering US policy. A "normal" thing.

In Trump's case, he was allegedly furthering his personal agenda under the guise of an anti-corruption campaign. Of course, this hinges on if you believe Trump or the various people that have testified thus far and painting that picture.
 
This_person

This_person

Well-Known Member
Chris0nllyn said:
Good point.

Since it was the US's (and EU's, IMF's, etc.) policy to rid Ukraine of corruption at the time, Biden did nothing wrong when he withheld loan guarantees at the behest of official US policy. Right?

Because in that case, Biden was furthering US policy. A "normal" thing.

In Trump's case, he was allegedly furthering his personal agenda under the guise of an anti-corruption campaign. Of course, this hinges on if you believe Trump or the various people that have testified thus far and painting that picture.
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The question is more complicated, of course.

There's the question of motivation - we know, for example, that Biden's son's utility company career is a challenging question, so the firing of a prosecutor is at least questionable in terms of motivation. We know, too, that Trump knew of this and it is his job to question such potential corruption. We also know that hurting Biden might help Trump; however, there are mitigating reasons for Trump.

As you point out, there may or may not be mitigating reasons for Biden. It is certainly worth the investigation. Which, of course, is what Trump wanted.

We know that Biden directly tied money to the firing of a prosecutor in the Ukraine. We know that the money was never, not even once, brought up as being tied to the investigation of the Bidens.

In the long run, we see much more reason to think Trump did nothing wrong (even though he may have, tangentially, benefited), but we do not know the same about Biden.

It seems incredulous to me that honest people don't put together that Biden had more to gain than Trump, and the evidence against Biden is much stronger than the evidence against Trump, but we're investigating Trump and (seemingly) not Biden. There's just no justification for that beyond partisan politics, and that conclusion is further backed up by the evidence of ONE party voting to investigate Trump, and TWO parties voting NOT to investigate Trump.
 
Yooper

Yooper

Up. Identified. Lase. Fire. On the way.
vraiblonde said:
If it weren't for fake news, they'd have no news at all


twitchy.com

SHOCKER! Blue check Resistance leaving out some key context about what Ken Starr said (but Touré doubles down)

"Literally didn't say this."
twitchy.com twitchy.com
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Spin and theatrics is all they have (I should say "at this time," but this is such a clown show...). For instance, Schiff has to "take a break" not to pee, but to run out to the press so that he gets the "right of first spin" (jus primae spinnicus, as it were).

The Bee gets it spot-on correct about this kabuki dance:
babylonbee.com

Democrat Finally Releases Something Of Substance

WASHINGTON, D.C.—The nation rejoiced as a Democrat finally released something of substance yesterday.
babylonbee.com babylonbee.com

--- End of line (MCP)
 
B

BernieP

Resident PIA
Chris0nllyn said:
Good point.

Since it was the US's (and EU's, IMF's, etc.) policy to rid Ukraine of corruption at the time, Biden did nothing wrong when he withheld loan guarantees at the behest of official US policy. Right?

Because in that case, Biden was furthering US policy. A "normal" thing.

In Trump's case, he was allegedly furthering his personal agenda under the guise of an anti-corruption campaign. Of course, this hinges on if you believe Trump or the various people that have testified thus far and painting that picture.
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Binden's problem is he linked the firing of the prosecutor (or so he claims) to the aid.
That prosecutor was investigating the company that was paying his previous failure of a son almost $1M a year for a job he didn't have to travel for and he had no experience with.
But wait, if you pay the additional postage and handling there is the second trip Binden takes his son along for, this time to China where he introduces him around. And the state owned bank decides to throw in on the project the kid is selling. Amazing, going from a zero to hero over night, after just two trips with daddy on Air Force 2.

Statement from Lieutenant General Keith Kellogg, National Security Advisor to Vice President Mike Pence

FOREIGN POLICY

Issued on: November 19, 2019


Beginning January 20, 2017, I was privileged to serve as Chief of Staff at the National Security Council. Since April 23, 2018, I have served as National Security Advisor to the Vice President of the United States. In my role in the Office of the Vice President, Jennifer Williams, a detailee from the U.S. Department of State, has reported to me since April 1, 2019.
I was on the much-reported July 25 call between President Donald Trump and President Zelensky. As an exceedingly proud member of President Trump’s Administration and as a 34-year highly experienced combat veteran who retired with the rank of Lieutenant General in the Army, I heard nothing wrong or improper on the call. I had and have no concerns. Ms. Williams was also on the call, and as she testified, she never reported any personal or professional concerns to me, her direct supervisor, regarding the call. In fact, she never reported any personal or professional concerns to any other member of the Vice President’s staff, including our Chief of Staff and the Vice President.
Today, in her testimony before the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, Ms. Williams also accurately testified regarding the Vice President’s preparation for and conduct during his September 1 meeting in Poland with President Zelensky. In her testimony, she affirmed that the Vice President focused on President Zelensky’s anti-corruption efforts and the lack of European support and never mentioned former Vice President Joe Biden, Crowdstrike, Burisma, or investigations in any communication with Ukrainians.
In my over 40-years in uniform and additional federal service, I am honored to serve this President and this Vice President as we advance the interests of the American people.
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This_person

This_person

Well-Known Member
Chris0nllyn said:
And you think its the job of a foreign country to do the investigation? As Trump wanted?
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I think the US has no authority to investigate the inner workings of the Ukrainian government nor a Ukrainian company for actions taken in the Ukraine. So, who else would do the investigating? And, why would we give hundreds of millions of dollars more to a country that we have strong reason to believe is likely to have such corruption? It's almost as if there is a law that says Trump is obligated to check this out.....
 
S

Stjohns3269

Active Member
vraiblonde said:
And now here comes the outrage....

You lie.
You get busted in that lie.
And now you want to claim some moral high ground.

🐂
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Where was the lie? Did he not state what I said he did?

Did Sondland not implicate Trump, Pence and Pompeo and show that Trump committed an impeachable offense.

I can’t believe that on the day we learn that information your outrage is focused at someone on the internet you don’t know and their opinion l.
 
Chris0nllyn

Chris0nllyn

Well-Known Member
BernieP said:
Binden's problem is he linked the firing of the prosecutor (or so he claims) to the aid.
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It wasn't aid. It was loan guarantees.

Burisma was being investigated during year Biden wasn't even on the Board and by all accounts, the investigation had absolutely nothing to do with Biden. The investigation was also shelved during the time Shokin was the top prosecutor. Ukrainian and US officials confirmed that.
https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...over-period-before-biden-joined-idUSKBN1WC1LV


I agree with the idea that people in high places shouldn't be doing any favors for their friends or family, but that ship has long sailed, as T_P has pointed out. "It's politics". But not illegal as further evidenced by Trump's family having all the roles they have currently.

The entire premise behind Biden being corrupt comes from Trump and Trump alone. If I was being accused of wrongdoing, I'd try to shift the blame also. Despite no evidence of wrongdoing by either Biden.

This_person said:
I think the US has no authority to investigate the inner workings of the Ukrainian government nor a Ukrainian company for actions taken in the Ukraine. So, who else would do the investigating? And, why would we give hundreds of millions of dollars more to a country that we have strong reason to believe is likely to have such corruption? It's almost as if there is a law that says Trump is obligated to check this out.....
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Ukraine already investigated Burisma and found no wrongdoing, albeit during a time before Biden. However, if the allegation is that Biden did the same thing Trump is accused of, it would only stand to reason that the same people investigating Trump would investigate Biden. i.e. not Ukraine.

I know you said you were busy during the testimonies, but the reasoning was mentioned during them. While I disagree with any foreign aid while we have the deficit problems we do, the fact is, we have it. Sucks, but it is what it is. Politics. And politicians, with the input of the national security community, found that giving aid to Ukraine and otherwise having Ukraine's back would help them in an international sense and hopefully reduce aggression by Russia.

The testimonies also revealed (depending solely on who you believe or how you interpreted it) that Trump didn't care about the corruption. He didn't mention corruption during the July 25 call based on the transcript/memo he released.

If there's a law for Trump to look into corruption, why have Ukraine look into an allegedly corrupt Biden?
 
T

The Boss

Active Member
Gilligan said:
I watched the same one you did. :yay:
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Gilligan said:
I watched the same one you did. :yay:
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LOL, yes you did................

blinders.jpg
 
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