In support of the Apocrypha

[onel0126]

NT scripture where references to these books can be found. If they are not inspired, why do NT books refer to them?

Matt. 2:16 - Herod's decree of slaying innocent children was prophesied in Wis. 11:7 - slaying the holy innocents.

Matt. 6:19-20 - Jesus' statement about laying up for yourselves treasure in heaven follows Sirach 29:11 - lay up your treasure.

Matt.. 7:12 - Jesus' golden rule "do unto others" is the converse of Tobit 4:15 - what you hate, do not do to others.

Matt. 7:16,20 - Jesus' statement "you will know them by their fruits" follows Sirach 27:6 - the fruit discloses the cultivation.

Matt. 9:36 - the people were "like sheep without a shepherd" is same as Judith 11:19 - sheep without a shepherd.

Matt. 11:25 - Jesus' description "Lord of heaven and earth" is the same as Tobit 7:18 - Lord of heaven and earth.

Matt. 12:42 - Jesus refers to the wisdom of Solomon which was recorded and made part of the deuterocanonical books.

Matt. 16:18 - Jesus' reference to the "power of death" and "gates of Hades" references Wisdom 16:13.

Matt. 22:25; Mark 12:20; Luke 20:29 - Gospel writers refer to the canonicity of Tobit 3:8 and 7:11 regarding the seven brothers.

Matt. 24:15 - the "desolating sacrilege" Jesus refers to is also taken from 1 Macc. 1:54 and 2 Macc. 8:17.

Matt. 24:16 - let those "flee to the mountains" is taken from 1 Macc. 2:28.

Matt. 27:43 - if He is God's Son, let God deliver him from His adversaries follows Wisdom 2:18.

Mark 4:5,16-17 - Jesus' description of seeds falling on rocky ground and having no root follows Sirach 40:15.

Mark 9:48 - description of hell where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched references Judith 16:17.

Luke 1:42 - Elizabeth's declaration of Mary's blessedness above all women follows Uzziah's declaration in Judith 13:18.

Luke 1:52 - Mary's magnificat addressing the mighty falling from their thrones and replaced by lowly follows Sirach 10:14.

Luke 2:29 - Simeon's declaration that he is ready to die after seeing the Child Jesus follows Tobit 11:9.

Luke 13:29 - the Lord's description of men coming from east and west to rejoice in God follows Baruch 4:37.

Luke 21:24 - Jesus' usage of "fall by the edge of the sword" follows Sirach 28:18.

Luke 24:4 and Acts 1:10 - Luke's description of the two men in dazzling apparel reminds us of 2 Macc. 3:26.

John 1:3 - all things were made through Him, the Word, follows Wisdom 9:1.

John 3:13 - who has ascended into heaven but He who descended from heaven references Baruch 3:29.

John 4:48; Acts 5:12; 15:12; 2 Cor. 12:12 - Jesus', Luke's and Paul's usage of "signs and wonders" follows Wisdom 8:8.

John 5:18 - Jesus claiming that God is His Father follows Wisdom 2:16.

John 6:35-59 - Jesus' Eucharistic discourse is foreshadowed in Sirach 24:21.

John 10:22 - the identification of the feast of the dedication is taken from 1 Macc. 4:59.

John 10:36 – Jesus accepts the inspiration of Maccabees as He analogizes the Hanukkah consecration to His own consecration to the Father in 1 Macc. 4:36.

John 15:6 - branches that don't bear fruit and are cut down follows Wis. 4:5 where branches are broken off.

Acts 1:15 - Luke's reference to the 120 may be a reference to 1 Macc. 3:55 - leaders of tens / restoration of the twelve.

Acts 10:34; Rom. 2:11; Gal. 2:6 - Peter's and Paul's statement that God shows no partiality references Sirach 35:12.

Acts 17:29 - description of false gods as like gold and silver made by men follows Wisdom 13:10.

Rom 1:18-25 - Paul's teaching on the knowledge of the Creator and the ignorance and sin of idolatry follows Wis. 13:1-10.

Rom. 1:20 - specifically, God's existence being evident in nature follows Wis. 13:1.

Rom. 1:23 - the sin of worshipping mortal man, birds, animals and reptiles follows Wis. 11:15; 12:24-27; 13:10; 14:8.

Rom. 1:24-27 - this idolatry results in all kinds of sexual perversion which follows Wis. 14:12,24-27.

Rom. 4:17 - Abraham is a father of many nations follows Sirach 44:19.

Rom. 5:12 - description of death and sin entering into the world is similar to Wisdom 2:24.

Rom. 9:21 - usage of the potter and the clay, making two kinds of vessels follows Wisdom 15:7.

1 Cor. 2:16 - Paul's question, "who has known the mind of the Lord?" references Wisdom 9:13.

1 Cor. 6:12-13; 10:23-26 - warning that, while all things are good, beware of gluttony, follows Sirach 36:18 and 37:28-30.

1 Cor. 8:5-6 - Paul acknowledging many "gods" but one Lord follows Wis. 13:3.

1 Cor. 10:1 - Paul's description of our fathers being under the cloud passing through the sea refers to Wisdom 19:7.

1 Cor. 10:20 - what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God refers to Baruch 4:7.

1 Cor. 15:29 - if no expectation of resurrection, it would be foolish to be baptized on their behalf follows 2 Macc. 12:43-45.

Eph. 1:17 - Paul's prayer for a "spirit of wisdom" follows the prayer for the spirit of wisdom in Wisdom 7:7.

Eph. 6:14 - Paul describing the breastplate of righteousness is the same as Wis. 5:18. See also Isaiah 59:17 and 1 Thess. 5:8.

Eph. 6:13-17 - in fact, the whole discussion of armor, helmet, breastplate, sword, shield follows Wis. 5:17-20.

1 Tim. 6:15 - Paul's description of God as Sovereign and King of kings is from 2 Macc. 12:15; 13:4.

2 Tim. 4:8 - Paul's description of a crown of righteousness is similar to Wisdom 5:16.

Heb. 4:12 - Paul's description of God's word as a sword is similar to Wisdom 18:15.

Heb. 11:5 - Enoch being taken up is also referenced in Wis 4:10 and Sir 44:16. See also 2 Kings 2:1-13 & Sir 48:9 regarding Elijah.

Heb 11:35 - Paul teaches about the martyrdom of the mother and her sons described in 2 Macc. 7:1-42.

Heb. 12:12 - the description "drooping hands" and "weak knees" comes from Sirach 25:23.

James 1:19 - let every man be quick to hear and slow to respond follows Sirach 5:11.

James 2:23 - it was reckoned to him as righteousness follows 1 Macc. 2:52 - it was reckoned to him as righteousness.

James 3:13 - James' instruction to perform works in meekness follows Sirach 3:17.

James 5:3 - describing silver which rusts and laying up treasure follows Sirach 29:10-11.

James 5:6 - condemning and killing the "righteous man" follows Wisdom 2:10-20.

1 Peter 1:6-7 - Peter teaches about testing faith by purgatorial fire as described in Wisdom 3:5-6 and Sirach 2:5.

1 Peter 1:17 - God judging each one according to his deeds refers to Sirach 16:12 - God judges man according to his deeds.

2 Peter 2:7 - God's rescue of a righteous man (Lot) is also described in Wisdom 10:6.

Rev. 1:4 – the seven spirits who are before his throne is taken from Tobit 12:15 – Raphael is one of the seven holy angels who present the prayers of the saints before the Holy One.

Rev. 1:18; Matt. 16:18 - power of life over death and gates of Hades follows Wis. 16:13.

Rev. 2:12 - reference to the two-edged sword is similar to the description of God's Word in Wisdom 18:16.

Rev. 5:7 - God is described as seated on His throne, and this is the same description used in Sirach 1:8.

Rev. 8:3-4 - prayers of the saints presented to God by the hand of an angel follows Tobit 12:12,15.

Rev. 8:7 - raining of hail and fire to the earth follows Wisdom 16:22 and Sirach 39:29.

Rev. 9:3 - raining of locusts on the earth follows Wisdom 16:9.

Rev. 11:19 - the vision of the ark of the covenant (Mary) in a cloud of glory was prophesied in 2 Macc. 2:7.

Rev. 17:14 - description of God as King of kings follows 2 Macc. 13:4.

Rev. 19:1 - the cry "Hallelujah" at the coming of the new Jerusalem follows Tobit 13:18.

Rev. 19:11 - the description of the Lord on a white horse in the heavens follows 2 Macc. 3:25; 11:8.

Rev. 19:16 - description of our Lord as King of kings is taken from 2 Macc. 13:4.

Rev. 21:19 - the description of the new Jerusalem with precious stones is prophesied in Tobit 13:17.

Exodus 23:7 - do not slay the innocent and righteous - Dan. 13:53 - do not put to death an innocent and righteous person.

1 Sam. 28:7-20 – the intercessory mediation of deceased Samuel for Saul follows Sirach 46:20.

2 Kings 2:1-13 – Elijah being taken up into heaven follows Sirach 48:9.

2 Tim. 3:16 - the inspired Scripture that Paul was referring to included the deuterocanonical texts that the Protestants removed. The books Baruch, Tobit, Maccabees, Judith, Sirach, Wisdom and parts of Daniel and Esther were all included in the Septuagint that Jesus and the apostles used.

Sirach and 2 Maccabees – some Protestants argue these books are not inspired because the writers express uncertainty about their abilities. But sacred writers are often humble about their divinely inspired writings. See, for example, 1 Cor. 7:40 – Paul says he “thinks” that he has the Spirit of God.

The Protestants attempt to defend their rejection of the deuterocanonicals on the ground that the early Jews rejected them. However, the Jewish councils that rejected them (e.g., School of Javneh (also called “Jamnia” in 90 - 100 A.D.) were the same councils that rejected the entire New Testatment canon. Thus, Protestants who reject the Catholic Bible are following a Jewish council that rejected Christ and the Revelation of the New Testament.

 

[Starman3000m]

The Apocrypha Contradicts Scripture
By Dr Joe Mizzi.

Question: In one of your articles you claim that the apocrypha contradict the Scripture. I do not see any contradictions.

Answer: Please take a second look and judge for yourself. Let's take some examples, starting with the book of Sirach which teaches that almsgiving makes atonement for sin. “Whoso honoureth his father maketh an atonement for his sins...Water will quench a flaming fire; and alms maketh an atonement for sin” (Sirach 3:3, 30).

Now it is the constant teaching of the Law that atonement is made by a blood sacrifice. For example Leviticus 17:11 states: “For the life of the flesh is in the blood: and I have given it to you upon the altar to make an atonement for your souls: for it is the blood that maketh an atonement for the soul.”

But Sirach teaches that honouring parents and giving alms atones for sin. Sirach teaches that a person can be justified by another method apart from substitutionary sacrifice.
Sirach teaches justification by the works of the law (honouring parents, etc.) which is directly refuted by the Bible: “A man is not justified by the works of the law” (Galatians 2:16). In fact, the apostle Paul goes as far as saying that “if righteousness come by the law, then Christ is dead in vain” (verse 21). If we could obtain righteousness by such things as obeying the commandment and doing charity, there would have been no need for Christ dying on the cross.

Similarly Tobit 12:9 states that “alms doth deliver from death, and shall purge away all sin.” But the Bible states that “the blood of Jesus Christ his Son cleanseth us from all sin” (1 John 1:7). Being assured by the Word of God that Christ’s blood really cleanses from all sin, we cannot accept that alms-giving is an a different way of purging sin. In fact the Bible makes it clear that ‘without the shedding of blood there is no remission’ (Hebrews 9:14). Tobit proposes an alternative way for purging sin apart from the shedding of blood.

Wisdom 8:19,20 is another contradiction between the apocrypha and Scripture. “For I was a witty child, and had a good spirit. Yea rather, being good, I came into a body undefiled.” However, the Bible teaches that all are born with original sin. "Through one man’s offense judgment came to all men... by one man’s disobedience many were made sinners" (Romans 5:18, 19). “There is none righteous, no, not one” (Romans 3:10). The author of Wisdom believes he was an exception.

Sirach 12:4-7 advices, “Give to the godly man, and help not a sinner. Do well unto him that is lowly, but give not to the ungodly; hold back thy bread, and give it not unto him... give unto the good, and help not the sinner.” This sound more like pagan philosophy rather than the teaching of God, “But I say to you who hear: Love your enemies, do good to those who hate you... Give to everyone who asks of you. And from him who takes away your goods do not ask them back” (Luke 6:27,30). “If your enemy is hungry, feed him; if he is thirsty, give him a drink;” (Romans 12:20, Proverbs 25:21).

There are also historical errors in the apocrypha. For example, Tobit claims to have been alive when Jeroboam revolted (931 B.C.) and when Assyria conquered Israel (722 B.C.). These two events were separated by over 200 years and yet the total lifespan of Tobit was 158 years (Tobit 1:3-5; 14:11)! Judith mistakenly identifies Nebuchadnezzar as king of the Assyrians (1:1, 7) when in fact he was the king of Babylon (2 Kings 24:1).

Surely the doctrinal and historical errors in the apocrypha are clear evidence against the divine inspiration of these books.

Source:
The apocrypha contradicts Scripture

 

[onel0126]

Dr. Mizzi should stick to delivering babies and stop playing preacher. I will look to the Church fathers instead of an MD playing preacher.

"What, then, again says the prophet? 'The assembly of the wicked surrounded me; they encompassed me as bees do a honeycomb,'[Ps. 22:17,118:12] and 'upon my garment they cast lots'[Ps. 22:19]. Since, therefore, He was about to be manifested and to suffer in the flesh, His suffering was foreshown. For the prophet speaks against Israel, 'Woe to their soul, because they have counselted an evil counsel against themselves[Isa. 3:9,] saying, Let us bind the just one, because he is displeasing to us'[Wisdom 2:12]. And Moses also says to them, 'Behold these things, saith the Lord God: Enter into the good land which the Lord sware tto give to Abraham, and Isaac, and Jacob, and inherit ye it, a land flowing with milk and honey'[Ex. 33:1, Lev. 20:24]." Epistle of Barnabas, 6 (A.D. 74).

"Having then this hope, let our souls be bound to Him who is faithful in His promises, and just in His judgments. He who has commanded us not to lie, shall much more Himself not lie; for nothing is impossible with God, except to lie. Let His faith therefore be stirred up again within us, and let us consider that all things are nigh unto Him. By the word of His might He established all things, and by His word He can overthrow them. 'Who shall say unto Him, What hast thou done ? Or, who shall resist the power of His strength?'[Wisdom 12:12,ll:22] When and as He pleases He will do all things, and none of the things determined by Him shall pass away? All things are open before Him, and nothing can be hidden from His counsel. 'The heavens declare the glory of God, and the firmament showeth His handy-work. Day unto day uttereth speech, and night unto night showeth knowledge. And there are no words or speeches of which the voices are not heard.'[Ps. 19:1-3]." Clement of Rome,To the Corinthians, 27:5 (c. A.D. 80).

"'Be just in your judgement' [Deut 1:16,17 Prov 31:9] make no distinction between man and man when correcting transgressions. Do not waver in your decision. 'Do not be one that opens his hands to receive, but shuts them when it comes to giving' [Sirach 4:31]." Didache, 4:3-5 (A.D. 90).

"Stand fast, therefore, in these things, and follow the example of the Lord, being firm and unchangeable in the faith, loving the brotherhood, and being attached to one another, joined together in the truth, exhibiting the meekness of the Lord in your intercourse with one another, and despising no one. When you can do good, defer it not, because 'alms delivers from death'[Tobit 4:10,12:9]. Be all of you subject one to another? [1 Pt 5:5] having your conduct blameless among the Gentiles,' [1 Pt 2:12] that ye may both receive praise for your good works, and the Lord may not be blasphemed through you. But woe to him by whom the name of the Lord is blasphemed! [Isa 52:5] Teach, therefore, sobriety to all, and manifest it also in your own conduct.” Polycarp, To the Phillipians, 10 (A.D. 135).

"Melito to his brother Onesimus, greeting: Since thou hast often, in thy zeal for the word, expressed a wish to have extracts made from the Law and the Prophets concerning the Saviour and concerning our entire faith, and hast also desired to have an accurate statement of the ancient book, as regards their number and their order, I have endeavored to perform the task, knowing thy zeal for the faith, and thy desire to gain information in regard to the word, and knowing that thou, in thy yearning after God, esteemest these things above all else, struggling to attain eternal salvation. Accordingly when I went East and came to the place where these things were preached and done, I learned accurately the books of the Old Testament, and send them to thee as written below. Their names are as follows: Of Moses, five books: Genesis, Exodus, Numbers, Leviticus, Deuteronomy; Jesus Nave, Judges, Ruth; of Kings, four books; of Chronicles, two; the Psalms of David, the Proverbs of Solomon, Wisdom also, Ecclesiastes, Song off Songs, Job; of Prophets, Isaiah, Jeremiah; of the twelve prophets, one book; Daniel, Ezekiel, Esdras. From which also I have made the extracts, dividing them into six books." Melito of Sardes, Fragment in Eusebius' Ecclesiatical History, 4:26 (A.D. 177).

"Those, however, who are believed to be presbyters by many, but serve their own lusts, and, do not place the fear of God supreme in their hearts, but conduct themselves with contempt towards others, and are puffed up with the pride of holding the chief seat, and work evil deeds in secret, saying, 'No man sees us,' shall be convicted by the Word, who does not judge after outward appearance (secundum gloriam), nor looks upon the countenance, but the heart; and they shall hear those words, to be found in Daniel the prophet: 'O thou seed of Canaan, and not of Judah, beauty hath deceived thee, and lust perverted thy heart'[Daniel 13:56-Susanna]. Thou that art waxen old in wicked days, now thy sins which thou hast committed aforetime are come to light; for thou hast pronounced false judgments, and hast been accustomed to condemn the innocent, and to let the guilty go free, albeit the Lord saith, The innocent and the righteous shalt thou not slay' [Daniel 13:52-53-Susanna]. Of whom also did the Lord say: "But if the evil servant shall say in his heart, My lord delayeth his coming, and shall begin to smite the man-servants and maidens, and to eat and drink and be drunken; the lord of that servant shall come in a day that he looketh not for him, and in an hour that he is not aware of, and shall cut him asunder, and appoint him his portion with the unbelievers.' [Matt 24:48]." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, IV:26:3 (A.D. 180).

"For all these and other words were unquestionably spoken in reference to the resurrection of the just, which takes place after the coming of Antichrist, and the destruction of all nations under his rule; in [the times of] which [resurrection] the righteous shall reign in the earth, waxing stronger by the sight of the Lord: and through Him they shall become accustomed to partake in the glory of God the Father, and shall enjoy in the kingdom intercourse and communion with the holy angels, and union with spiritual beings; and [with respect to] those whom the Lord shall find in the flesh, awaiting Him from heaven, and who have suffered tribulation, as well as escaped the hands of the Wicked one. For it is in reference to them that the prophet says: 'And those that are left shall multiply upon the earth,' And Jeremiah the prophet has pointed out, that as many believers as God has prepared for this purpose, to multiply those left upon earth, should both be under the rule of the saints to minister to this Jerusalem, and that [His] kingdom shall be in it, saying, "Look around Jerusalem towards the east, and behold the joy which comes to thee from God Himself. Behold, thy sons shall come whom thou hast sent forth: they shall come in a band from the east even unto the west, by the word of that Holy One, rejoicing in that splendour which is from thy God. O Jerusalem, put off thy robe of mourning and of affliction, and put on that beauty of eternal splendour from thy God. Gird thyself with the double garment of that righteousness proceeding from thy God; place the mitre of eternal glory upon thine head. For God will show thy glory to the whole earth under heaven. For thy name shall for ever be called by God Himself, the peace of righteousness and glory to him that worships God. Arise, Jerusalem, stand on high, and look towards the east, and behold thy sons from the rising of the sun, even to the west, by the Word of that Holy One, rejoicing in the very remembrance of God. For the footmen have gone forth from thee, while they were drawn away by the enemy. God shall bring them in to thee, being borne with glory as the throne of a kingdom. For God has decreed that every high mountain shall be brought low, and the eternal hills, and that the valleys be filled, so that the surface of the earth be rendered smooth, that Israel, the glory of God, may walk in safety. The woods, too, shall make shady places, and every sweet-smelling tree shall be for Israel itself by the command of God. For God shall go before with joy in the light of His splendour, with the pity and righteousness which proceeds from Him.'[Baruch 4:36-5:9]." Irenaeus, Against Heresies, V:35:1 (A.D. 180).

"For, when one reads of God as being 'the searcher and witness of the heart' [Wisdom 1:6]; when His prophet is reproved by His discovering to him the secrets of the heart; when God Himself anticipates in His people the thoughts of their heart, 'Why think ye evil in your hearts?'[Matt 9:4] when David prays 'Create in me a clean heart, O God'[Ps 51:12], and Paul declares, 'With the heart man believeth unto righteousness,'[Romans 10:10] and John says, 'By his own heart is each man condemned’[1 John 3:20]; when, lastly, 'he who looketh on a woman so as to lust after her, hath already committed adultery with her in his heart' [Matt 5:28],--then both points are cleared fully up, that there is a directing faculty of the soul..." Tertullian, On the Soul, 15 (A.D. 197).

"[New Testament books...] The Epistle of Jude, indeed, and two belonging to the above-named John--or bearing the name of John--are reckoned among the Catholic epistles. And the book of Wisdom, written by the friends of Solomon in his honour." Muratorian Fragment (A.D. 200).

Etc.

 

[Starman3000m]

The point is not where both may be in "agreement" but in those areas where the Apocrypha and The Holy Bible are NOT in agreement. i.e. even if portions of the Apocrypha contain half-truths - the rest is not considered authoritatively God-Inspired. That is how deception sets in. Trusting the "church fathers" is trusting in man, not God.

article:“The Apocrypha / Deuterocanonical books teach many things that are not true and are not historically accurate. While many Catholics accepted the Apocrypha / Deuterocanonicals previously, the Roman Catholic Church officially added the Apocrypha / Deuterocanonicals to their Bible at the Council of Trent in the mid 1500’s A.D., primarily in response to the Protestant Reformation. The Apocrypha / Deuterocanonicals support some of the things that the Roman Catholic Church believes and practices which are not in agreement with the Bible. Examples are praying for the dead, petitioning “saints” in Heaven for their prayers, worshipping angels, and “alms giving” atoning for sins. Some of what the Apocrypha / Deuterocanonicals say is true and correct. However, due to the historical and theological errors, the books must be viewed as fallible historical and religious documents, not as the inspired, authoritative Word of God.”

What are the Apocrypha / Deuterocanonical books?

 

[onel0126]

the rest is not considered authoritatively God-Inspired.

By whom, Luther? Again, a human with a clear agenda/axe to grind interpreting....

 

[Zguy28]

By whom, Luther? Again, a human with a clear agenda/axe to grind interpreting....

One might say by your responses that you also have an axe to grind...

 

[thatguy]

the rest is not considered authoritatively God-Inspired. That is how deception sets in. [/url]

the deception is that any of it is more "god inspired" than the rest.

 

[onel0126]

One might say by your responses that you also have an axe to grind...

Not at all--I'm just asking for an answer. Was Luther divinely inspired to act? Seems to me ML acted Pope-like almost--something that Starman (and others) seems to frown upon.

 

[Starman3000m]

the deception is that any of it is more "god inspired" than the rest.

Whatever teaching contradicts the Holy Bible, as shown by the examples in the Apocrypha, are to be considered deceptive and pseudo-Christian writings. Same can be said when comparing the LDS Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, Doctrine and Covenants; the Jehovah's Witnesses Watchtower Society publications; Mary Baker Eddy's Seventh Day Adventist supplemental teachings, etc. All these are no different than RCC "supplemental teachings" that are not from the Bible and are used to indoctrinate followers into believing their own denomination is the "true" one.

In other words, those teachings are making people followers of "church doctrines" and not followers of Christ.

 

[thatguy]

Whatever teaching contradicts the Holy Bible, as shown by the examples in the Apocrypha, are to be considered deceptive and pseudo-Christian writings. Same can be said when comparing the LDS Book of Mormon, Pearl of Great Price, Doctrine and Covenants; the Jehovah's Witnesses Watchtower Society publications; Mary Baker Eddy's Seventh Day Adventist supplemental teachings, etc. All these are no different than RCC "supplemental teachings" that are not from the Bible and are used to indoctrinate followers into believing their own denomination is the "true" one.

In other words, those teachings are making people followers of "church doctrines" and not followers of Christ.

the bible is church doctrine...... it was written/collected/compiled by people who were doing the exact same thing you accuse all those other folks of doing, trying to put their stamp on the new religion of christianity.

 

[Starman3000m]

the bible is church doctrine...... it was written/collected/compiled by people who were doing the exact same thing you accuse all those other folks of doing, trying to put their stamp on the new religion of christianity.

Christianity is not a "new religion" - it is the prophetic fulfillment of the Jewish Messiah who was sent to provide Salvation to all mankind (not just the Jews) through His atoning Blood. The 66 Books of the Bible are those written by Prophets of God and also by the Apostles who walked with Jesus. Believing in the Holy Bible and accepting Christ does not make a person a "Catholic" it makes a person a Child of God through faith in Christ. Once a person becomes born-again, as Jesus said, then all that is needed is faith and trust in Christ and spiritual guidance from the the Holy Bible. There is no need for specific "denominational ties" or following "supplemental teachings" in order to be saved - contrary to what the others teach.

 

[onel0126]

A. Some Roman Catholic Heresies and Inventions, and the Dates of their Adoption:

3. Wax candles; about 320

Sorry to dig up old posts, but this quote has to be the funniest thing I have EVER read on the religion board. Wax candles=product of the debil!

 

[Starman3000m]

Sorry to dig up old posts, but this quote has to be the funniest thing I have EVER read on the religion board. Wax candles=product of the debil!

This pertains to the ritual act of lighting candles as part of prayer petitions and worship.

Jesus is the only Light you need my friend.

 

[onel0126]

This pertains to the ritual act of lighting candles as part of petitions in worship.

Jesus is the only Light you need my friend.

I know what you meant--it just struck me funny!

 

[Starman3000m]

I know what you meant--it just struck me funny!

I believe there are many who still light candles as part of their prayer ritual. Again, really not necessary nor Biblical. That's why it was mentioned.

 

[thatguy]

Christianity is not a "new religion" - it is the prophetic fulfillment of the Jewish Messiah who was sent to provide Salvation to all mankind (not just the Jews) through His atoning Blood. The 66 Books of the Bible are those written by Prophets of God and also by the Apostles who walked with Jesus. Believing in the Holy Bible and accepting Christ does not make a person a "Catholic" it makes a person a Child of God through faith in Christ. Once a person becomes born-again, as Jesus said, then all that is needed is faith and trust in Christ and spiritual guidance from the the Holy Bible. There is no need for specific "denominational ties" or following "supplemental teachings" in order to be saved - contrary to what the others teach.

it may not be now, but when those "prophets" wrote their books, they were trying to sell the new religion of christianity. all these denominations came much later. At the time of the christian "prophets" christianity was simply a "denomination" of judism. And all these writer were trying to convince potential followers of the "one truth". A truth that was not supported by the jews of the time.

therefore, the christian bible is EXACTLY what you accuse the "additional teachings" of the various christian denominations of being....

 

[Starman3000m]

it may not be now, but when those "prophets" wrote their books, they were trying to sell the new religion of christianity. all these denominations came much later. At the time of the christian "prophets" christianity was simply a "denomination" of judism. And all these writer were trying to convince potential followers of the "one truth". A truth that was not supported by the jews of the time.

therefore, the christian bible is EXACTLY what you accuse the "additional teachings" of the various christian denominations of being....

Actually, the Jewish leaders were using religion to control people, much like what is happening today and what has been happening all along. The Jewish religious heirarchy established their own rules, traditions and rituals (same as religions of today) and controlled people in that manner.

When you read the Old Testament, you will find that God chastised the Jewish leaders many times for misleading their people. Then, when Jesus appeared, as the prophesied Messiah, He also chastised the religious leaders in the same way. Also remember that the first several thousand people who believed the teachings of Jesus and accepted them as the prophesied Messiah/Lamb of God, were ALL JEWISH men women and children.

Jesus came not just to give His Life to provide God's forgiveness for your sins and mine, He also came to free people from the religious bondage and control that they were under so that we could have a direct and spiritual fellowship with God.

When the Jewish leaders, under Rome's jurisdiction, had Jesus crucified, Jesus still prayed for God to forgive them because they did not know what they were doing by calling for His crucifixion. Yet, it had to be so that His Atoning Blood could establish God's Forgiveness for those who trust in Him.

Other denominations have taken the simple Truth of God's Salvation and claimed that they have the exclusive right to grant it through their own teachings. Not so.

 

[thatguy]

Actually, the Jewish leaders were using religion to control people, much like what is happening today and what has been happening all along. The Jewish religious heirarchy established their own rules, traditions and rituals (same as religions of today) and controlled people in that manner.

When you read the Old Testament, you will find that God chastised the Jewish leaders many times for misleading their people. Then, when Jesus appeared, as the prophesied Messiah, He also chastised the religious leaders in the same way. Also remember that the first several thousand people who believed the teachings of Jesus and accepted them as the prophesied Messiah/Lamb of God, were ALL JEWISH men women and children.

Jesus came not just to give His Life to provide God's forgiveness for your sins and mine, He also came to free people from the religious bondage and control that they were under so that we could have a direct and spiritual fellowship with God.

When the Jewish leaders, under Rome's jurisdiction, had Jesus crucified, Jesus still prayed for God to forgive them because they did not know what they were doing by calling for His crucifixion. Yet, it had to be so that His Atoning Blood could establish God's Forgiveness for those who trust in Him.

Other denominations have taken the simple Truth of God's Salvation and claimed that they have the exclusive right to grant it through their own teachings. Not so.

none of what you wrote changes the fact that the writers of the bible were trying to sell their new version of judaism, and that ALL of these writings are OUTSIDE of the original religous text.
As i said, Therefore the christian bible is exactly what you claim the additional writings of the various denominations are......

 

[Starman3000m]

none of what you wrote changes the fact that the writers of the bible were trying to sell their new version of judaism, and that ALL of these writings are OUTSIDE of the original religous text.
As i said, Therefore the christian bible is exactly what you claim the additional writings of the various denominations are......

I know what you are trying to say but what is the "original religious text" that you are referring to?

 

[thatguy]

I know what you are trying to say but what is the "original religious text" that you are referring to?

at the time of the "christian prophets" it would have probably been the Tanakh