Interesting Reading About McCain

[Bruzilla]

I've heard about an interview that John McCain gave to Cuban shrink Barral that took place in Hanoi in 1970. I have seen a picture of the interview in the Office of the Committee for Foreign Cultural Relations, which is certainly not the Hanoi Hilton or a military hospital where McCain claims all his contact with interrogators took place.

The McCain legend is that he was held in solitary confinement and largely left to rot, and when tortured to provide information about the Navy he cleverly decieved his captors by giving them the names of Green Bay Packers players, but looking at this interview, and the copies of message traffic about subsequent interviews, McCain was telling the NV and anyone else who asked for information everything but show sizes.

I had no idea McCain gave out all this information! And I thought he was a low-life before!!!

http://cryptome.org/cia-mccain-pow/cia-mccain-pow.htm

 

[AndyMarquisLIVE]

MCCAIN BASHING THREAD

 

[Bruzilla]

Gee... that reminds me of the deniers who used to put there hands over there eyes and say "this is just Clinton bashing!" when reports of Broderick and the other victims of Clinton's abuses came to light.

Why don't you read the transcript before you start denying? Are you really that afraid of the truth?

 

[kwillia]

Gee... that reminds me of the deniers who used to put there hands over there eyes and say "this is just Clinton bashing!" when reports of Broderick and the other victims of Clinton's abuses came to light.

Why don't you read the transcript before you start denying? Are you really that afraid of the truth?

I ,for one, refuse to hold what someone says while under constant and consistent life threatening torture against them so reading the transcript will have no impact on whether or not I will end up voting for McCain.

 

[itsbob]

Gee... that reminds me of the deniers who used to put there hands over there eyes and say "this is just Clinton bashing!" when reports of Broderick and the other victims of Clinton's abuses came to light.

Why don't you read the transcript before you start denying? Are you really that afraid of the truth?

I'd like to know how McCain would know anything about the Chain of Command after the Tet Offensive, when the Tet Offensive was over a YEAR after his capture.

Never mind, this is all propaganda bull####.

After reading it you can tell this is no more his words then those of his captors.

Propaganda that worked over 30 years ago, and still works today.

 

[Bruzilla]

I ,for one, refuse to hold what someone says while under constant and consistent life threatening torture against them so reading the transcript will have no impact on whether or not I will end up voting for McCain.

I agree with you, but us to be right the person in question actually has to be under constant life threatening torture, and that seems to not be the case. Why don't you read the transcript? The doctor notes that McCain had recovered from the injuries he sustained in the ejection and only has some minor problems with one of his hands... not exactly the "tortured so bad he couldn't raise his arms" condition we have been led to believe is the truth.

Also, McCain has always claimed that all he did was sign some confessions, and when asked about the military command structure he said that he fooled his captors by giving them the names of Green Bay football players, but in that interview he's telling the guy all about who does what... and he's no talking about football players.

Another untruth seems to be what McCain sain in an interview with US News and World Report, John McCain, Prisoner of War: A First-Person Account - US News and World Report, in 1973 where he says "I said, "O.K., I'll give you military information if you will take me to the hospital." Then at the hospital he says "Sometime later, "The Bug" came rushing into the room, shouting, "Your father is a big admiral; now we take you to the hospital."

Now think about that. This is 1967, in the third-world nation of North Vietnam. There is no internet... no electronic databases... barely even any telephones... but the NV are able to determine who John McCain is within four days of his arrival at the prison. McCain makes it sound like the NV somehow discovered his identify, but there's only one way they could have identified him that quickly - he told them who he was!

So, he promises to give up military information in return for medical care, he gets medical care. What did he give up to get it? According to some he gave up all the entry/egress routes for attacks into North Vietnam, along with lists of key targets. This is just allegations, but what is factual is that shortly after McCain's capture, the NVs relocated air defenses to positions along the entry/egreess routes an to near key targets of Operation Rolling Thunder, and casualties increased over 60%. An amazing coincidence don't you think? Previous to McCain's capture, the NVs had been taking a pounding due to their poor locating of air defenses, after McCain's capture they reposition and start pounding our guys but good. Yeah... must be a coincidence.

Anyway... if McCain is going to use his time as a POW to justify people voting for him, then the people ought to look at what he did as a POW.

 

[itsbob]

Now think about that. This is 1967, in the third-world nation of North Vietnam. There is no internet... no electronic databases... barely even any telephones... but the NV are able to determine who John McCain is within four days of his arrival at the prison. McCain makes it sound like the NV somehow discovered his identify, but there's only one way they could have identified him that quickly - he told them who he was!

Bullchit..

Like they (the Vietnamese) didn't know all the names of our generals and admirals? It wouldn't take much to put two and two together. Hell, it may even have been the Red Cross that gave them the information!

You don't have to have the internet to get information, it just makes it easier to get.

You're grabbing at straws.

 

[Ken King]

Bullchit..

Like they (the Vietnamese) didn't know all the names of our generals and admirals? It wouldn't take much to put two and two together. Hell, it may even have been the Red Cross that gave them the information!

You don't have to have the internet to get information, it just makes it easier to get.

You're grabbing at straws.

Not to mention that you can bet that the USSR was aware of our senior military officers and probably made the connection for the NVA.

 

[Bruzilla]

I'd like to know how McCain would know anything about the Chain of Command after the Tet Offensive, when the Tet Offensive was over a YEAR after his capture.

Hmmm that's an interesting question. How would a guy who was supposed to be locked away in solitary confinement and not talking to anybody know anything about the Tet Offensive or current chains of command... unless he had access to that information by the NV. He seems to know a lot about what's going on with the war in that interview... how could he know it unless the NVs were letting him read and analyze information?

Oh, I know, that doctor decided to make up all those comments in 1970 just in case the yankee pilot might someday run for president. Oh wait... that's right, those comments were cleverly added to the transcript a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, that must be it. Oh wait... Obama gave the interview... yeah that nust be it.

 

[itsbob]

Anyway... if McCain is going to use his time as a POW to justify people voting for him, then the people ought to look at what he did as a POW.

I've never been a prisoner of war, have you?

How can you say what is a right way to act as one, if you haven't sat through multiple years of imprisonment and torture.

Giving up "secrets' three years after capture and three years of untold treatment, I'd give him major kudo's.

And I'm sure their torture was more than forcing him to wear womens underpants on his head, or piling our fighter pilots naked on top of each other.

It seems the weak minded will always fall for the enemies bad attempts at propaganda.

I haven't heard or seen any reports of any secrets he divulged shortly after capture, and I'm sure SOMEone that doesn't like him would have first hand testimony of the fact.

He served his country, he was captured performing a mission he was ordered to do, and suffered greatly for it, yet you have no problem badmouthing and dragging him through the mud.

So what did Obama do when he was in the same situation??

Oh wait..

 

[itsbob]

Hmmm that's an interesting question. How would a guy who was supposed to be locked away in solitary confinement and not talking to anybody know anything about the Tet Offensive or current chains of command... unless he had access to that information by the NV. He seems to know a lot about what's going on with the war in that interview... how could he know it unless the NVs were letting him read and analyze information?

Oh, I know, that doctor decided to make up all those comments in 1970 just in case the yankee pilot might someday run for president. Oh wait... that's right, those comments were cleverly added to the transcript a couple of weeks ago. Yeah, that must be it. Oh wait... Obama gave the interview... yeah that nust be it.

the answer would be.. THOSE AREN'T HIS WORDS.. those were manufactured to be used as propaganda.. and again, it's still working!!

Besides, the NVA didn't have the internet, where would they get the information about our Chain of Command and who was giving orders to whom?

 

[Bruzilla]

Bullchit..

Like they (the Vietnamese) didn't know all the names of our generals and admirals? It wouldn't take much to put two and two together. Hell, it may even have been the Red Cross that gave them the information!

You don't have to have the internet to get information, it just makes it easier to get.

You're grabbing at straws.

You think the Red Cross was in the business of knowing the family histories of every serviceman and providing that info on request to the NV? Jesus... how far are you willing to suspend incredibility to prop up your failed hero? And do you really think that in 1967 Hanoi, a low-level interogator would be able to find out all about McCain from the head hanchos at NV headquarters in less than four days??? Wow... those guys must have been the model of C41 back in their day! Who knew?

You don't need the internet, but it was damn hard to get any information in your enemies in 1967, even for the US, and especially in less than four days.

 

[itsbob]

You think the Red Cross was in the business of knowing the family histories of every serviceman and providing that info on request to the NV? Jesus... how far are you willing to suspend incredibility to prop up your failed hero? And do you really think that in 1967 Hanoi, a low-level interogator would be able to find out all about McCain from the head hanchos at NV headquarters in less than four days??? Wow... those guys must have been the model of C41 back in their day! Who knew?

You don't need the internet, but it was damn hard to get any information in your enemies in 1967, even for the US, and especially in less than four days.

no sense in arguing the point with you, your mind is made up. This man that volunteered to serve his country, and went into harms way depsite the fact he could have found 20 was not to. Was captured by an enemy of our country and did more time in an enemies prison than your candidate has spent in the Senate, you want to paint him as a traitor?

Obama was too good to serve his country, has never worn the uniform, and of course would (like you) have no idea the type and amount of suffering John McCain endured.

To be a Monday morning quaterback is one thing, but to queation this man's patriotism and duty to country is beyond belief. It's not like he was in country for less than 4 months and went home with 3 purple hearts.. this guy walked the walk, and can talk the talk, he's been there and done it for REAL. I have the utmost respect for him.. I

 

[Bruzilla]

the answer would be.. THOSE AREN'T HIS WORDS.. those were manufactured to be used as propaganda.. and again, it's still working!!

Besides, the NVA didn't have the internet, where would they get the information about our Chain of Command and who was giving orders to whom?

Oh - My - Lord! The NV came up with a brilliant scheme with this Cuban doctor to make-up all these statements from McCain. And the picture of McCain sitting in the office that he supposedly never went to... oh yeah, the NV made up a fake office in his cell at the HH... yeah, that's what happened.
There truly are none so blind...

Did you read the transcript? It reads:

Barral: "What led you to join the U.S. Navy?"

McCain: "Mainly for a family reason, since I have many relatives in that branch of service. In particular, my grandfather was outstanding in World War II; he was one of those who made the Japanese sign the act of surrender, and a Naval destroyer bears his name. And my father is also an admiral; he is chief of the Pacific Command of the U.S. Armed Forces. Actually, it is a matter of military tradition. One of my forebears was a
colonel in Washington's independence forces. Another was a general in the war of secession. Thus it was natural for me to follow a military career. Of course my father was not always an admiral; during World War II he was commander of a submarine. He has been in the navy since 1927 and has been an admiral since 1965. He holds the highest rank in the navy. If I had not been downed, I would have become an admiral at an earlier age than my father. Theoretically, General Abrams is his subordinate...."

Barral: "Theoretically?"

McCain: "Yes, although in practice, because of the importance of this war, Gen Creighton Abrams receives his orders directly from Washington."

Barral: "I do not understand this about "in theory and practice." I thought that in military life everything is standardized in an inflexible manner...."

McCain: "Well, look, in fact Abrams is his subordinate but since the Tet offensive of 1968, in view of the gravity of the situation, Abrams, instead of asking for instructions from my father, who is in Honolulu, so that he in turn would ask for them from Washington, went directly to Washington for them because the war is here in Vietnam and my father also has Okinawa, Korea, and so forth under his command. That is why, since the war is so important, he receives his instructions directly from Washington. It is a political problem also, not only military."

So... do you really think that in 1967, the NVs knew all about McCain's history? Note that McCain refers to one of his ancestors as "a general in the war of secession" and not The Civil War. McCain's family were plantation owners in Mississippi, so he wouldn't have seen the war as The Civil War but as the southern War of Secession. Do you really think the NVs were savvy enough about the North and South to know that McCain would refer to the war by it's southern title? And what's with the bragging? "If I had not been downed, I would have become an admiral at an earlier age than my father." Say what??? The guy barely got through the USNA, had a poor record as a pilot... WTF made him think he would make admirial faster than his Dad? Or, was he just trying to play up his own importance?

 

[Bruzilla]

no sense in arguing the point with you, your mind is made up. This man that volunteered to serve his country, and went into harms way depsite the fact he could have found 20 was not to. Was captured by an enemy of our country and did more time in an enemies prison than your candidate has spent in the Senate, you want to paint him as a traitor?

Obama was too good to serve his country, has never worn the uniform, and of course would (like you) have no idea the type and amount of suffering John McCain endured.

To be a Monday morning quaterback is one thing, but to queation this man's patriotism and duty to country is beyond belief. It's not like he was in country for less than 4 months and went home with 3 purple hearts.. this guy walked the walk, and can talk the talk, he's been there and done it for REAL. I have the utmost respect for him.. I

Ah... the last refuge of the McCain denier... "Well... Obama has never worn the uniform!" That's true, but what does that have to do with McCain being disloyal to his country? Yes, Obama has never worn the uniform and has never been a POW. But that also means that McCain has never offered to exchange military info for medical care, he never allowed himself to be used as a propoganda showpiece for our enemies, never traded his integrity to better his own conditions, etc. Yeah... there are other POWs who did similar things, but there were many who did not. Those guys deserve commendation, McCain does not, and if he's going to use being a POW as a reason to vote for him, it's important to know just what he did as a POW.

 

[Ken King]

So... do you really think that in 1967, the NVs knew all about McCain's history? Note that McCain refers to one of his ancestors as "a general in the war of secession" and not The Civil War. McCain's family were plantation owners in Mississippi, so he wouldn't have seen the war as The Civil War but as the southern War of Secession. Do you really think the NVs were savvy enough about the North and South to know that McCain would refer to the war by it's southern title? And what's with the bragging? "If I had not been downed, I would have become an admiral at an earlier age than my father." Say what??? The guy barely got through the USNA, had a poor record as a pilot... WTF made him think he would make admirial faster than his Dad? Or, was he just trying to play up his own importance?

If you check your linked information the supposed notes are from 1970 as dated. They had three years to get and put that information together regarding his family history. Is that a too much of a stretch for you to comprehend.

 

[This_person]

Hmmm that's an interesting question. How would a guy who was supposed to be locked away in solitary confinement and not talking to anybody know anything about the Tet Offensive or current chains of command... unless he had access to that information by the NV.

I see, they told him what to tell them, that's how he knew, and how they knew

 

[vraiblonde]

Bruzilla, you have gone off the deep end.

And besides, I thought you wanted to talk about issues? That's what you said when anyone wanted to dig into Obama's personal history.

 

[kwillia]

Bruzilla, you have gone off the deep end.

And besides, I thought you wanted to talk about issues? That's what you said when anyone wanted to dig into Obama's personal history.

You mean like the article I read earlier today where his half-brother is swearing Obama was raised a Muslim.

 

[ImnoMensa]

I dont get Bruzilla unless someone else quotes him because I iggied him a while back, but I did find something really funny in one of his statements .

It was this one: "how far are you willing to suspend incredibility to prop up your failed hero?"

How far is Bruzilla willing to suspend incredibility too prop up his hero.??

I think we all know the answer to that one.