Iran and the bomb...

[Larry Gude]

U.S. sees need for tangible action on Iran: Israel | International | Reuters

The United States and Israel agree on the need for "tangible action" to prevent Iran from developing nuclear weapons, Israeli Prime Minister Ehud Olmert's spokesman said after a visit by U.S. President George W. Bush.

It is inevitable that Iran aquires nuclear weapons in my view. The question I have is; so what?

Don't give me some Bush/Cheney mushroom cloud over a US city claptrap unless you can make a compelling argument that this WILL be the case.

Put your argument in the context of this;

List of states with nuclear weapons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lot's of people have them.

 

[AndyMarquisLIVE]

U.S. sees need for tangible action on Iran: Israel | International | Reuters





It is inevitable that Iran aquires nuclear weapons in my view. The question I have is; so what?

Don't give me some Bush/Cheney mushroom cloud over a US city claptrap unless you can make a compelling argument that this WILL be the case.

Put your argument in the context of this;

List of states with nuclear weapons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lot's of people have them.

They won't bomb us. They care more about Israel, and that's who they'd bomb.

 

[Pete]

Would a mushroom cloud over Tel Aviv or Hiafa be that much different than one over Birmingham Alabama?

 

[Larry Gude]

Do...

Would a mushroom cloud over Tel Aviv or Hiafa be that much different than one over Birmingham Alabama?

...you honestly believe they'd do it knowing Israel will wipe them out?

 

[Pete]

...you honestly believe they'd do it knowing Israel will wipe them out?

I can only go by what they say and what they do. They hate Israel and declare all the time they want to eradicate them. Then they go out and develop nuclear capability for "energy" despite the fact they are sitting on a gazzilion barrels of oil and fuel is 25 cents a gallon and they are richer than their wildest dreams on export revenue.

If I said "Gude is an evil plant grower who has no right growing poinsettias and I am going to run his sorry ass out of business and ruin him. By the time I am done he will be living in a Maytag refrigerator box under an over pass in SE DC." then I go out and buy a green house and handling equipment, pots and a big pile of potting soil but when asked by the local newspaper what I am going to do I say "Grow poinsettias? No, No, don't be silly, I am going to keep my house plants in there, nothing commercial at all. "


Arabs, Persians, middle easterners have shown us one thing if they have shown us anything, the majority don't worry about silly little things like "certain mutual destruction" or "death".

 

[Major Bawls]

On Target

They won't bomb us. They care more about Israel, and that's who they'd bomb.

You are absolutely correct. But politics being what they are...administrations past and present have commited themselves to the security of Israel. It really didn't have to be Israel ...any country could have done as long as it provided for the U.S. a presence in the region. It is a countrys perceived alignment with western ideologies that provides the fuel for anger because those perceived ideologies fly in the face of regional ideologies.

 

[Larry Gude]

Based...

Arabs, Persians, middle easterners have shown us one thing if they have shown us anything, the majority don't worry about silly little things like "certain mutual destruction" or "death".

...on what? Who has invaded the Middle East? Us. Why? Oil. Who is crazy?
Who is sitting on vast oil reserves and yet wants nuclear power? That's be us as well.

I am just saying, if you'll notice, Shi'a, which is what Iran mostly is and what the majority is in Iraq, do not do suicide. Al Queda is nearly all Sunni. Sunni's in Iraq do suicide attacks. Shia, by and large, do not.

By you excuse, we should have gone to war with Kruschev and every other Soviet premier that said they'd bury us. As far as that goes, has Iran even threatened us?

If we live in mortal fear of Iran getting the bomb, if we know they'll use it, we have to lay that argument out. I just don't see it. Iran was very pro Western until we over threw their duly elected government in the 1950's.

I'm open to argument about how dangerous they are or are not, but I sure don't see where they are under some sort of rational reason to trust us, our motives and our intentions.

If you said you were gonna put we out of the flower business by competing, why would that bother me? You're starting with a flawed business model and little chance of success. If you said you were gonna sabotage me, that's a different story. before I worried about it, wouldn't I have to have a sound rationale?

 

[vegmom]

After dating two Iranian men I have no fear of their former homeland having the bomb.

Why?

Persian men have no sense of direction. If only I had recordings of the many, many cell phone conversations where they had both gotten lost. One could not figure out (no lie) how to stay traveling on the Beltway.

The akhoonds will fire a missle at Israel and end up wiping Kyrgystan off the map.

 

[Larry Gude]

And just...

After dating two Iranian men I have no fear of their former homeland having the bomb.

Why?

Persian men have no sense of direction. If only I had recordings of the many, many cell phone conversations where they had both gotten lost. One could not figure out (no lie) how to stay traveling on the Beltway.

The akhoonds will fire a missle at Israel and end up wiping Kyrgystan off the map.

...how is this supposed to make the Kyrgystani's feel any better about the situation?

 

[StanleyRugg]

After dating two Iranian men I have no fear of their former homeland having the bomb.

Why?

Persian men have no sense of direction. If only I had recordings of the many, many cell phone conversations where they had both gotten lost. One could not figure out (no lie) how to stay traveling on the Beltway.

The akhoonds will fire a missle at Israel and end up wiping Kyrgystan off the map.

I knew a fella like that once. We called him Wrongway Waynewright on account his name was Waynewright and he always went the wrong way. Momma Rugg said he was just dense and feeble minded but it wasn’t true he was real smart. Not nearly up to my level of smarts cause I am a scientist and all but he was smarter than your average bear, he just had a problem with direction. My specialty being phycial sciences I am not a expert on fisiology and all but I have a theory he has a defect in his inner compass. We all got them inner compass things, you might not know what direction you are going down to the cardinal heading but you get the general idea. If you go the wrong way you just get a feelin you are not going the right direction. Wrongway never could. I even gave him a compass and when ever he got close to it or picked it up the dial would just spin around and not point anywhere. He could kinda figure it out after a while if he used the sun but at nighttime or when it was cloudy he was a goner.

One cloudy day we couldn’t work on my portable microwave gun because we were doing outside testing on account it was too dangerous to fire it inside the inventin hut cause it would radiate things you don’t want radiated, like a propane tank. Anyhoo we decided to go over to the Hornes over past King George for pancakes. Wrongway had got stuck in a traffic jam in Glasva and lost us. We were siting at the Hornes for hours waiting for him before he called. Wrongway took a wrong turn and was at a payphone in Salsbury over on the eastern shore. One time he got walloped cause he got up in the middle of the night to go to the bathroom cause in addition to going the wrongway all the time he drank a terrible lot of ice tea, probably 3 gallons a day and it made him have to urinate a lot but mosquitos never bothered him much. Anyhoo he got up and went the wrong way and instead of going in the restroom he peed in his brothers boot thinking it was a commode. He got a pretty good whoopin for that but his brother did say he never got athletes foot fungus again until he bought new boots.

 

[Major Bawls]

I love it!!!!

 

[PsyOps]

U.S. sees need for tangible action on Iran: Israel | International | Reuters





It is inevitable that Iran aquires nuclear weapons in my view. The question I have is; so what?

Don't give me some Bush/Cheney mushroom cloud over a US city claptrap unless you can make a compelling argument that this WILL be the case.

Put your argument in the context of this;

List of states with nuclear weapons - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Lot's of people have them.

How many of these countries are saying this?

Quotes by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad:

“Anybody who recognizes Israel will burn in the fire of the Islamic nation's fury,”

“Iran is ready to transfer nuclear know-how to the Islamic countries due to their need.”

"This terrorist and criminal state (Israel) is backed by foreign powers, but this regime would soon be swept away by the Palestinians."

"Today the reason for the Zionist regime's existence is questioned, and this regime is on its way to annihilation.… (Israel) has reached the end like a dead rat after being slapped by the Lebanese."

"I warn you to abandon the filthy Zionist entity, which has reached the end of the line. It has lost its reason to be and will sooner or later fall. The ones who still support the criminal Zionists should know that the occupiers' days are numbered. … Accept that the life of Zionists will sooner or later come to an end."

 

[Larry Gude]

So...

How many of these countries are saying this?

Quotes by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad:

...I ask you; do you think that once they build a bomb they will try and use it on Israel?

 

[Pete]

...I ask you; do you think that once they build a bomb they will try and use it on Israel?

Another question is:

If you laugh off what they have actually threatened to do as just talk and then they really do it are you a bigger fool?

And another question:

Do you think Israel is going to take the chance they are joking around?

 

[PsyOps]

...I ask you; do you think that once they build a bomb they will try and use it on Israel?

Are you telling me we shouldn't take these threats seriously? Play the "let's wait and see" game?

I think they will whether it be directly or through their surogates,... yes they will.

 

[PsyOps]

Do you think Israel is going to take the chance they are joking around?

THAT'S the big question. Israel is going to defend themselves regardless of what the US does. Then what does the US do?

 

[Larry Gude]

Irrelevant...

Another question is:

If you laugh off what they have actually threatened to do as just talk and then they really do it are you a bigger fool?

And another question:

Do you think Israel is going to take the chance they are joking around?

...because of that last part right there.

Not our problem. None of our business. Those folks are not some huddled victims. How much getting between two guys at the bar have you done only to find that the moment you say "Ok, go ahead tough guys" they suddenly decide they can find a compromise.

When have exacerbated this situation far, far too long to no good effect.

 

[Larry Gude]

You and Pete...

Are you telling me we shouldn't take these threats seriously? Play the "let's wait and see" game?

I think they will whether it be directly or through their surogates,... yes they will.

....both have questions for me yet neither one of you will say "Sure, they will use the bomb as soon as they get one."

My point shows that an awful lot of people have found a way to not use them once they acquired them including North Korea and Pakistan.

I don't think for one minute they will commit national suicide. I think either Israel will kill them or they will find that they can get along after all. In any event, it's none of our business and our meddling made an otherwise pro Western Iran our enemy a long time ago. The fantatics are our fault. We paved the path for them.

We're making it better how?

 

[PsyOps]

....both have questions for me yet neither one of you will say "Sure, they will use the bomb as soon as they get one."

My point shows that an awful lot of people have found a way to not use them once they acquired them including North Korea and Pakistan.

I don't think for one minute they will commit national suicide. I think either Israel will kill them or they will find that they can get along after all. In any event, it's none of our business and our meddling made an otherwise pro Western Iran our enemy a long time ago. The fantatics are our fault. We paved the path for them.

We're making it better how?

Refer to post #15. You wouldn't be asking the question if you didn't have doubts. but I can see it now, Bush sits back and says "it's none of our business Israel, you deal with it". Bomb goes off and everyone jumps on Bush about how much of a failure he is for failing to address the Iran problem. Now tens of thousands of Israelis are dead.

And don't forget about this quote by Ahmadinejad:

“Iran is ready to transfer nuclear know-how to the Islamic countries due to their need.”

It wont necessarily have to come from Iran directly. How hard would it be to have Hamas or al Qaeda do their dirty work?

 

[Pete]

....both have questions for me yet neither one of you will say "Sure, they will use the bomb as soon as they get one."

My point shows that an awful lot of people have found a way to not use them once they acquired them including North Korea and Pakistan.

I don't think for one minute they will commit national suicide. I think either Israel will kill them or they will find that they can get along after all. In any event, it's none of our business and our meddling made an otherwise pro Western Iran our enemy a long time ago. The fantatics are our fault. We paved the path for them.

We're making it better how?

Larry what do you want me to say? There is nothing to answer because you wont accept it anyway so why bother. I did say "I can only go by what they say they will do" and they have pledged to annihilate Israel. How much more definitive can I be? How much more definitive can they be?


You comparing the Arabs attacking the Israeli's, which they have done unprovoked 3 times since 1967 If I am not mistaken to a "bar fight" is ridiculous.

Do I think they will wheel out a big a-bomb, load it on an old rocket and hurl it at Tel Aviv the day they finish it? No they wont. Iran has been held in check because they fear the Israelis and know the Israeli's can kick their ass. If they get the bomb they will press it further and provoke a fight and then the bets are off. They only get along because they know they couldn't deliver the knockout punch.

Did Pakistan or India pledge to annihilate each other? Nope, and North Korea hasn't pledged to annihilate anyone either despite the long list of people they hate. Do you feel comfortable knowing that Kim Jong Il, a man who is known to be a lunatic of the nth degree could have a megaton weapon? When he was being jacked up what did Saddam do with his SCUDS? If North Korea pledged to anhialate Japan you can bet we would be right there.

I understand your isolationist stance and it has merits, unfortunately it is not how it works, and it has never worked. We tried to stay out of every war except for Iraq and it didn't work. Our relationship with Israel is a tad more complicated than a pal we see at happy hour at Applebees.

The difference between 2 old enemies duking it out with ill equipped undermanned armies in a conventional skirmish and getting and using the bomb is the bomb requires 1 crazed angry person, Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, 1 medium range Shahab-4, and it only needs to be close.