Iran...Cruisin' for a Bruisin'

[Pete]

You're right; I should have said "a determined Israeli nation"!

I don't think it's a good idea to be pushing them to the brink. They won't like what they get in return.

No one will like it. Everyone has been in the "appease Arabs" mode for years because of oil.

If a full scale war were to breakout the collective pucker world wide would be enough to convert a lump of coal to a diamond. If it were not for oil who would have put up with their shiat for so long? Check that: If it weren't for oil they would still be wandering the desert looking for water and not be a factor.

I believe that there are many countries who hope that if Israel is attacked again it goes all the way to the Persian Gulf and goes from being on of the smalled countries to the 7th largest.

 

[Nupe2]

HANS BRIX!

Hans Blix "I hate that guy!" Lewis Black

 

[vraiblonde]

I believe that there are many countries who hope that if Israel is attacked again it goes all the way to the Persian Gulf and goes from being on of the smalled countries to the 7th largest.

Well, we'd better hope for a real Republican in '08 or the US won't be one of them. Even now, American Leftists are clamoring for the US to stop aligning itself with Israel. They want to appease the Palestinian terrorists and suck up to the rest of the Arab world.

George Bush should tell them all to go to hell, but he doesn't seem inclined to do so. He's more interested in encouraging Sharon to pull back and give up land to these freaks. This cute little maneuver only emboldened the terrorists and made Sharon look like a pantywaist.

 

[Hessian]

Last week..

It was revealed that Fox had altered its running headlines because some saudi prince was offended that they captioned the riots in France as "Moslem Rioters"
The Prince openly admitted that he owns 5% of Fox and called to demand a change in wording...they complied in less than a 1/2 hour.

So...what will we do if Saudi gets drawn in to this war on Israel? How carefully will our press report the news? Will we have to scramble up a statement if our Military Hardware in Saudi Arabia gets hammered by the Israeli forces?

Arabs have a sizable stake in America and the howling will be enormous if we stand by our Ally Israel in the coming war.
Our pocketbooks and Wall st will take a huge beating. (unless we weaned ourselves away from Arabic oil.--drilling ANWAR?)

 

[vraiblonde]

Arabs have a sizable stake in America and the howling will be enormous if we stand by our Ally Israel in the coming war.

I'm going home and drinking beer tonight.

 

[Penn]

I'm going home and drinking beer tonight.

Hell with beer; I'm going straight for the Jose Cuervo!

 

[Larry Gude]

I don't think so...

The only thing that's changed since the 1967 timeframe is that Iran may have a few nukes.

I really don't.

As has been pointed out, Israel has no room for error.

They took down Iraq's nuke power plant shortly before it came on line.

They will do the same when the think Iran is close to having a usesable weapon.

They can't not. They simply cannot allow it.

 

[SamSpade]

I really don't.

As has been pointed out, Israel has no room for error.

They took down Iraq's nuke power plant shortly before it came on line.

They will do the same when the think Iran is close to having a usesable weapon.

They can't not. They simply cannot allow it.

I don't think they can. It's been discussed a lot on radio, they simply do not have the bomber RANGE to take it out. They would have to heavily rely on American support to accomplish that.

 

[ylexot]

I don't think they can. It's been discussed a lot on radio, they simply do not have the bomber RANGE to take it out. They would have to heavily rely on American support to accomplish that.

They'd also have to fly through US-controlled airspace. They can't get there by aircraft without US support/approval. But there are other ways...

 

[SamSpade]

They'd also have to fly through US-controlled airspace. They can't get there by aircraft without US support/approval. But there are other ways...

I don't know of a way that would have - what do they call it? - "plausible deniability". If we refuel them in air - it'll be known. If we "lend" them a bomber - they'll know. I don't think there's a way short of outright selling them aircraft. Even then, it'd be suspect.

I think if they want to pull it off, they'd have to send in Mossad agents to pull it off clandestinely.

 

[itsbob]

I don't think they can. It's been discussed a lot on radio, they simply do not have the bomber RANGE to take it out. They would have to heavily rely on American support to accomplish that.

Who needs bombers?? And do they have any in their inventory!?? I don't think so.. small flight of F-15's (refuelable), JDAMS on the wings.. And I don't think Israel would ask anyone for permission, MAYBE forgiveness.

 

[Larry Gude]

That's what I thought...

Who needs bombers?? And do they have any in their inventory!?? I don't think so.. small flight of F-15's (refuelable), JDAMS on the wings.. And I don't think Israel would ask anyone for permission, MAYBE forgiveness.

...don't they have their own refuel capability?

And hell no they ain't asking. Maybe warning.

 

[Ken King]

Tel Aviv to Tehran is 990 some miles. F15 maximum range is 3450 miles. No effen problem.

 

[ylexot]

Tel Aviv to Tehran is 990 some miles. F15 maximum range is 3450 miles. No effen problem.

F-15 maximum range is 3,450 miles with conformal fuel tanks and three external fuel tanks and flying for maximum range point-to-point. The F-15 isn't going to fight it's way in and out while carrying weapons to a target 990 miles away. Not even close.

 

[Ken King]

F-15 maximum range is 3,450 miles with conformal fuel tanks and three external fuel tanks and flying for maximum range point-to-point. The F-15 isn't going to fight it's way in and out while carrying weapons to a target 990 miles away. Not even close.

What the hell do they have to fight enroute? Most defensive systems were taken out by shear attrition and the Iran-Iraq war of the 80s. The combat radius for the F15 is over 1000 miles and they won't be worrying about anything fighting them until the get past Iraq and enter Iran, if then.

Hell, if they want to take out a weapons site they can fly hot direct, hit the target and ditch in the Gulf for recovery by friendly martime forces. It's all in how bad they want to do it.

 

[ylexot]

What the hell do they have to fight enroute? Most defensive systems were taken out by shear attrition and the Iran-Iraq war of the 80s. The combat radius for the F15 is over 1000 miles and they won't be worrying about anything fighting them until the get past Iraq and enter Iran, if then.

Hell, if they want to take out a weapons site they can fly hot direct, hit the target and ditch in the Gulf for recovery by friendly martime forces. It's all in how bad they want to do it.

F-4's and F-14's are the ones I'd worry most about as far as aircraft, but there's also the SAM threat which should be of an even greater concern depending on what Iran has (you don't think they've built anything since 1980? ). Then consider that Iran's nuclear sites (yes plural, that we know of...there could be others) are spread over the country and you'd have to take them all out (preferably at the same time). If Israel really wanted to take out the nuke sites, they would probably have to sacrifice 1/4-1/2 of their F-15I's (I think they only have 50) on one-way-only missions.

Oh yeah, and like I mentioned before, unless they're getting our permission, they'll be fighting their way through Iraq against our aircraft as well.

 

[itsbob]

F-4's and F-14's are the ones I'd worry most about as far as aircraft, but there's also the SAM threat which should be of an even greater concern depending on what Iran has (you don't think they've built anything since 1980? ). Then consider that Iran's nuclear sites (yes plural, that we know of...there could be others) are spread over the country and you'd have to take them all out (preferably at the same time). If Israel really wanted to take out the nuke sites, they would probably have to sacrifice 1/4-1/2 of their F-15I's (I think they only have 50) on one-way-only missions.

Oh yeah, and like I mentioned before, unless they're getting our permission, they'll be fighting their way through Iraq against our aircraft as well.

OK, Iran has F-4's F-15's and I think F-16's that they have had ZERO logisitcal support for the last 20 years... they DO have the Iraqi planes from the first war, and probably some from the second. i don't think they'd have to worry much about air to air.. Even if they COULD fly, they are still technically 1970's aircraft.

 

[Ken King]

F-4's and F-14's are the ones I'd worry most about as far as aircraft, but there's also the SAM threat which should be of an even greater concern depending on what Iran has (you don't think they've built anything since 1980? ). Then consider that Iran's nuclear sites (yes plural, that we know of...there could be others) are spread over the country and you'd have to take them all out (preferably at the same time). If Israel really wanted to take out the nuke sites, they would probably have to sacrifice 1/4-1/2 of their F-15I's (I think they only have 50) on one-way-only missions.

Oh yeah, and like I mentioned before, unless they're getting our permission, they'll be fighting their way through Iraq against our aircraft as well.

If those are the ones you are worried about I wouldn't. I bet there are less then 10 F-14s serviceable and maybe not even as many as 20 or 30 Phantoms still able to get in the air. A bigger worry would be the 10 F-8Ms "Finback", 7 Tu-22Ms, 19 MIG-27s, and several MIG-31s reported to be in Iran as late as 2003. And that still isn't a very big worry when you talk about pilot ability.

Several strike teams with combat air support could be arranged to make the hits while providing adequate air cover. Permission to cross over Iraq might be no problem also as a US radar network failure might happen as the planes get close and not be observed by any coalition forces sarcasm. Stranger things have happened.

 

[itsbob]

Permission to cross over Iraq might be no problem also as a US radar network failure might happen as the planes get close and not be observed by any coalition forces sarcasm. Stranger things have happened.

This is what i was thinking.. F-15's with US markings traversing IRAQ.. SOMEHOW they even have the right "codes" and for some reason ALL of the AA is down for Maintenance at the same time.. for a 30 minute window.. twice in the same day..

 

[Hessian]

Good second strike assessment...

http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/article.asp?ARTICLE_ID=47935

Basics: Anti-missile tech would likely knock down the Iranian first strike...then combined US & Israeli forces turn Tehran to glass.