Iraq War Resolution...

[sleuth]

I just had a thought.

Why are we involved in all this "fierce" fighting. Why are we not just surrounding the insurgents and cutting off their food and water until they give up?

Or are we already doing that and all the fighting is about them trying to escape the surrounding troops?

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by SamSpade
I mean, let's be real, they were calling Iraq a "quagmire" on day **8** of the war.

Actually, "they" were calling it a quagmire before it even got started.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by sleuth14
Why are we involved in all this "fierce" fighting. Why are we not just surrounding the insurgents and cutting off their food and water until they give up?

Civilians live there, too. Rummy doesn't want to starve out old women and children just because they have some bad guys in the neighborhood. Think about if you had a large gang of thugs in, say, Leonardtown and cops were trying to roust them. I think this is pretty close to the same thing. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

 

[Sparx]

Why are we involved in all this "fierce" fighting. Why are we not just surrounding the insurgents and cutting off their food and water until they give up?

Because the bad guys are all mixed up with the civilians in towns, cities, mosks

 

[sleuth]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
Civilians live there, too. Rummy doesn't want to starve out old women and children just because they have some bad guys in the neighborhood. Think about if you had a large gang of thugs in, say, Leonardtown and cops were trying to roust them. I think this is pretty close to the same thing. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

Is it not possible to evacuate all women and children?
I realize it's hard to tell civilian from soldier over there... but you'd think we could pin down the locations of the fighters and get everyone else out.

 

[Christy]

Originally posted by vraiblonde
Civilians live there, too. Rummy doesn't want to starve out old women and children just because they have some bad guys in the neighborhood. Think about if you had a large gang of thugs in, say, Leonardtown and cops were trying to roust them. I think this is pretty close to the same thing. Someone correct me if I'm wrong.

F@$k those old women! When they get hungry enough they'll rat out the thugs.

I'm sorry, but I say we call in as much firepower as possible and start pounding the hell out of them, so sorry if you're a retard and haven't already packed up your kids and headed out of Dodge.

 

[Larry Gude]

Ahem...while Secretary King...

...is engaged in 'diplomacy' one megaton at a time, next paragraph of the IWR;


"Whereas Iraq, in direct and flagrant violation of the cease-fire, attempted to thwart the efforts of weapons inspectors to identify and destroy Iraq's weapons of mass destruction stockpiles and development capabilities, which finally resulted in the withdrawal of inspectors from Iraq on October 31, 1998; "


I can hear Sen. Kerry 'harumphing' like Senators do, in agreement here.

 

[Christy]

Re: Ahem...while Secretary King...

Originally posted by Larry Gude
...is engaged in 'diplomacy' one megaton at a time.....

I was born to be a dictator. It's so simple for me, play nice, by my rules, or die. :shrug: We're in this mess now due to what I look at as "bad parenting" as a Superpower. You go with the rationale that all these Countries are like our children (some are like very poorly raised foster children). Do you rationalize with a child? Do you negotiate and bend whenever they want to do something that is clearly stupid? :shrug: That would be a big NO. What happens when you let your children make their own rules? Say your child goes over and shoots the neighbors windows out. Do you....

a.) Tell your child, now don't do that again, but leave him with his gun and ammo? :shrug:

b.) Take your kids ammo, but leave him the gun, knowing full well that the rat b@stard little foster child learned how to make his own ammo from his last really foul foster family.

or....

c.) Take your childs gun and ammo, give that child one hellacious smackdown and put him/her on major restriction until they can act like a civilized human being again. :shrug:

 

[Larry Gude]

Next para...

Whereas in 1998 Congress concluded that Iraq's continuing weapons of mass destruction programs threatened vital United States interests and international peace and security, declared Iraq to be in `material and unacceptable breach of its international obligations' and urged the President `to take appropriate action, in accordance with the Constitution and relevant laws of the United States, to bring Iraq into compliance with its international obligations' (Public Law 105-235);

To bring into compliance...hmm...How outrageous!?

1998? RUSH TO WAR!!!

Urged WHAT President???

 

[jlabsher]

So, since Congress authorized it, based on the administration's pressure it is right, hmmm. Only history will tell. Saddam threatened our freedom? Smoke another one, methinks the current administration and Patriot Act do that on a daily basis. Hmmm, congress also authorized THIS once, does that make it right?

I know you have a hardon for the Iraqi resolution but invading another country because they didn't meet the terms of a UN accord when we were subsequently thumbing our nose at the UN and the rest of the world is patently obtuse and smacks of imperialisim.

 

[Christy]

Originally posted by jlabsher
I know you have a hardon for the Iraqi resolution but invading another country because they didn't meet the terms of a UN accord when we were subsequently thumbing our nose at the UN and the rest of the world is patently obtuse and smacks of imperialisim.

What is it with this whole "imperialism" crap? Check your dictionary, last imperialistic act we pulled was by giving the Native Americans the smallpox and selling them on the reservation idea.

imperialism

\Im*pe"ri*al*ism\, n. The policy, practice, or advocacy of seeking, or acquiescing in, the extension of the control, dominion, or empire of a nation, as by the acquirement of new, esp. distant, territory or dependencies, or by the closer union of parts more or less independent of each other for operations of war, copyright, internal commerce, etc.

Why not thumb our nose at the UN and the rest of the world? They thumb their noses at us daily. :shrug:

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by jlabsher
Patriot Act

Since you brought it up - what exactly about the Patriot Act upsets you so much?

 

[jlabsher]

How about holding citizens in jail indefinitely without trial, representation or identification for a start? Of course we do it with immigrants too.

 

[Christy]

Originally posted by jlabsher
How about holding citizens in jail indefinitely without trial, representation or identification for a start? Of course we do it with immigrants too.

How inhumane. Maybe we should have videotaped them and sent the video to CNN and Al Jazeera then shot them in the head. Or we could've just lit them on fire and drug them through the streets. :shrug:

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by jlabsher
How about holding citizens in jail indefinitely without trial, representation or identification for a start? Of course we do it with immigrants too.

How do you feel about the 9-11 hearings?

*she baits her trap*

 

[jlabsher]

Waste of time & money.

 

[Larry Gude]

jlab...

I know you have a hardon for the Iraqi resolution

Interesting take. I hadn't viewed it as a sexual fixation.

The resolution is WHY we went to war to liberate the Iraqi people.

The resolution is ground zero for me in the public debate because so many IGNORE every word of it, Sen. Kerry, the 9 dwarfs he ran against to gain the nomination, reporter after reporter, freaks like Mike Moore and the Scare America gang, Soros, anti Bush forum people, etc, etc.

The fact that it passed does not make it right or wrong. It simply is THE argument that was made to the members of the House and Senate who passed it overwhelmingly. It is WHY we are there. It is the reason why our sons and daughters are getting killed and maimed in a far away place.

invading another country because they didn't meet the terms of a UN accord

Come on. You are way more intelligent than that. This is not about A accord. It is about resolution after resolution over a 12 year period. The UN was failing itself and the world. It was making itself a joke. As much as I disdain the endless parade of freaks and dictators and hate mongers that make up it's membership, that's how much I LOVE that the UN is being forced to back up the talk. It exposes the low lifes.

Of course, you were outraged at our 'invasions' of Haitti and Bosnia and were pleased we followed Richard Clarkes advice and got out of Rawanda?

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by jlabsher
Waste of time & money.

I agree. But I'm curious why you feel that way.

 

[Larry Gude]

There we go...

How about holding citizens in jail indefinitely without trial, representation or identification for a start?

The Patriot Act is designed precisely so we can do that.

It is no crime to take flight lessons and skip take offs and landings. The FBI was told to back off one of the 9/11 dudes because they didn't have enough evidence.

Now, with the Patriot Act, we MAY have locked up some gomers who were gonna take a box cutter and grab them a UPS cargo plane or crash a gasoline truck into a school or dump anthrax all through the Metro.

Your side is 'damn Bush no matter what'.

He is personally at fault for not doing enough to prevent 9/11. Hell, I've read some lefty stuff that swears he was in CHARGE of the attacks. Now, he is at fault for doing to MUCH.

You should be pleased, as I am, that the Patriot Act is an offical, above board aperatus we can all deal with. it ca nbe voted out. It is not secret. It is not clouded in murky executive emergency war powers as it could be a la FDR or even Lincoln.

The Patriot Act is designed to make a legal argument for extreme action in extreme cases to try and prevent terror attacks.

You cry for the low lifes locked up without what you see as due process? Where are the Islamic leaders in this nation pointing fingers at the ones they KNOW are the bad guys?

 

[Larry Gude]

It is NOT...

Waste of time & money.

How can any one portend to care about Iraq or Afghanistan or the Patriot Act or 9/11 and NOT care to be told in an open fashion by our government what decisions lead us here and WHY.

Process is EVERYTHING in government.

Commissioner Gorelick has responsibility for making it easier for the 9/11 bad guys to get away with their attack. She didn't mean to and in fact was trying to be more protective of civil rights. The problem is that our freedoms do make us more vulnerable.

You say 'waste of time and money' when you should be saying 'OK, now lets look at how to perhaps better balance freedom and security'.