J.F. Kerry: He just keeps stepping all over himself

[ylexot]

Originally posted by Sparx
No, He should have known he was a probable target and got out of that school. He say's he didn't want to alarm the children? How about making them collateral damage? Surrounded by capable and competent leaders? Why didn't they get him out of there?

He was not a "probable target". The White House would have been a probable target, not some little elementary school in Florida. Think about it. You have to assume that the terrorists knew where the president was (which was only announced a couple days before he went). Then they would have to find a flight to use (which would be determined by the location, takeoff time, etc) and buy several tickets for the flight. Then they would have to find the school from the air. That's the tough part. It's not going to be on the charts. The place is small, so they would have to fly fairly low and slow. There would be enough warning for the President to evac if he was in danger.

As for the kids being "collateral damage", they would be "collateral damage" whether or not he stays...assuming they could even target the school.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by Sparx
No, He should have known he was a probable target and got out of that school. He say's he didn't want to alarm the children? How about making them collateral damage? Surrounded by capable and competent leaders? Why didn't they get him out of there?

What ylexot said PLUS:

This is what annoys me about people who don't have a clue talking politics and criticizing the President's actions and responses. Do you think terrorist attacks are just spur of the moment impulsive actions? They're not - they're planned out way in advance. You don't just spontaneously hijack a plane or round up some explosives. That's why it's important to pay attention to threat alerts, even if the information is a couple of years old.

I applaud Bush's actions on 9-11 - every single one of them. I feel secure knowing we don't have some numbskull in the White House who starts running around screaming when there's an emergency. I like it that our guy doesn't go catatonic for half an hour. I liked his tough talk and I like the way he made a plan rather than just start bombing everything in sight. I like that he has good people in key positions so the Prez can be the General, not the ground grunt.

Anyone who still supports John Kerry has serious emotional issues that are clouding their judgement. John Kerry is obviously unfit to run this country - he's childish, he's petty, he's a liar, he's a cheat, he has no integrity, and he's a pet for rich women. If this is the best the Dems can do for a Presidential candidate, ya'll have some serious problems.

 

[Pete]

Originally posted by Sparx
No, He should have known he was a probable target and got out of that school. He say's he didn't want to alarm the children? How about making them collateral damage? Surrounded by capable and competent leaders? Why didn't they get him out of there?

fool

 

[dems4me]

Originally posted by Sparx
No, He should have known he was a probable target and got out of that school. He say's he didn't want to alarm the children? How about making them collateral damage? Surrounded by capable and competent leaders? Why didn't they get him out of there?

 

[Penn]

I Love it!!

"Kerry's Cambodia question

He says he served there, critics say not so.
The answer's crucial

John Edwards is supposed to be a great lawyer but at the recent Democratic convention he made a rookie mistake: He raised a question without knowing the answer. "If you have any questions about what John Kerry's made of, just spend three minutes with the men who served with him," he said.
Evidently, Edwards did not know at the time that almost every officer who commanded Kerry or served alongside him opposes his candidacy. Worse, they have formed a group, Swiftboat Veterans for Truth, that claims more than 250 members.

Their case against Kerry is set forth in a new book, "Unfit for Command," co-written by longtime Kerry critic John O'Neill, and in a TV ad from the group.

What Kerry did (or didn't do) in Cambodia is a different matter.

On March 27, 1986, Kerry told his fellow senators: "I remember Christmas of 1968, sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by the Vietnamese and the Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and the President of the United States telling the American people that I was not there, the troops were not in Cambodia.

"I have that memory, which is seared - seared - in me."

Here's the problem: Kerry's commanding officers and some of his crew members reportedly deny that he was in Cambodia on Christmas 1968. They say he was stationed near the town of Sa Dec, 55 miles from the Cambodian border."

" Kerry has staked his candidacy on Vietnam. His running mate has publicly invited the country to judge Kerry by listening to his comrades in arms. A lot of them, to Edwards' obvious chagrin, are saying that John Kerry is unfit for command.

If it turns out he made up the story of Christmas in Cambodia, they could very well be right."


And, He's still stepping all over himself!

Oh I forgot something else: Navy Lieutenants don't know their navigation or location, as a rule; or so John Kerry would have you believe. He couldn't tell if his boat was 55 miles inside Cambodia, or 55 miles inside Vietnam, but what's the difference?

 

[BuddyLee]

Re: I Love it!!

Originally posted by penncam
"Kerry's Cambodia question

He says he served there, critics say not so.
The answer's crucial

John Edwards is supposed to be a great lawyer but at the recent Democratic convention he made a rookie mistake: He raised a question without knowing the answer. "If you have any questions about what John Kerry's made of, just spend three minutes with the men who served with him," he said.
Evidently, Edwards did not know at the time that almost every officer who commanded Kerry or served alongside him opposes his candidacy. Worse, they have formed a group, Swiftboat Veterans for Truth, that claims more than 250 members.

Their case against Kerry is set forth in a new book, "Unfit for Command," co-written by longtime Kerry critic John O'Neill, and in a TV ad from the group.

What Kerry did (or didn't do) in Cambodia is a different matter.

On March 27, 1986, Kerry told his fellow senators: "I remember Christmas of 1968, sitting on a gunboat in Cambodia. I remember what it was like to be shot at by the Vietnamese and the Khmer Rouge and Cambodians, and the President of the United States telling the American people that I was not there, the troops were not in Cambodia.

"I have that memory, which is seared - seared - in me."

Here's the problem: Kerry's commanding officers and some of his crew members reportedly deny that he was in Cambodia on Christmas 1968. They say he was stationed near the town of Sa Dec, 55 miles from the Cambodian border."

" Kerry has staked his candidacy on Vietnam. His running mate has publicly invited the country to judge Kerry by listening to his comrades in arms. A lot of them, to Edwards' obvious chagrin, are saying that John Kerry is unfit for command.

If it turns out he made up the story of Christmas in Cambodia, they could very well be right."


And, He's still stepping all over himself!

Oh I forgot something else: Navy Lieutenants don't know their navigation or location, as a rule; or so John Kerry would have you believe. He couldn't tell if his boat was 55 miles inside Cambodia, or 55 miles inside Vietnam, but what's the difference?

Wrong.

All propaganda.

http://forum.johnkerry.com/lofiversion/index.php/t51810.html

 

[Penn]

Re: Re: I Love it!!

Originally posted by BuddyLee
Wrong.

All propaganda.

http://forum.johnkerry.com/lofiversion/index.php/t51810.html

Cute, BuddyLee - that's a Kerry website. What do you think they're going to say?

Are they going to raise any doubts about his actions?

Are they going to give any shred of validity to anyone else, anybody who shared the same waters in an adjacent, companion boat that was with his crew/boat on those occasions?

I think not.

 

[ylexot]

Re: Re: I Love it!!

Originally posted by BuddyLee
Wrong.

All propaganda.

http://forum.johnkerry.com/lofiversion/index.php/t51810.html

Good job. Combat propaganda with...propaganda.

 

[BuddyLee]

Re: Re: Re: I Love it!!

Originally posted by penncam
Cute, BuddyLee - that's a Kerry website. What do you think they're going to say?

Are they going to raise any doubts about his actions?

Are they going to give any shred of validity to anyone else, anybody who shared the same waters in an adjacent, companion boat that was with his crew/boat on those occasions?

I think not.

And what do you think the majority on this forum are? I rest my case.

Read what they have to offer, that includes the links.

The truth is that not one of the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth were on Kerry's boat. So then, how could any of the veteran/Bush lovers know anything about Kerry's actions in combat?

 

[BuddyLee]

Re: Re: Re: I Love it!!

Originally posted by ylexot
Good job. Combat propaganda with...propaganda.

That's all the election seems to be anymore. So why not. Kerry's supporters go after Bush's 'seven minutes' while Bush supporters go after Kerry's 'was he where he said he was'.

It's all a bunch of non-sense.

 

[ylexot]

Re: Re: Re: Re: I Love it!!

Originally posted by BuddyLee
The truth is that not one of the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth were on Kerry's boat. So then, how could any of the veteran/Bush lovers know anything about Kerry's actions in combat?

A swift boat is not a submarine where the crew is alone and does not interact with other people in the military. They are part of a unit. Saying that other people in that unit don't know anything about his actions in combat is like saying that aircraft squadron-mates don't know about each others actions. It just isn't true. From http://www.swiftvets.com:

The Swift boats fought in groups, so the other OICs who fought alongside Kerry know him well and can accurately describe what he did and did not do. In many cases Kerry's fellow OICs had a better perspective than his own crew members, since the latter had no way to determine whether he was following orders and how well he worked with his peers.

 

[Ken King]

Here is a photograph of a page from the Congressional Record of March 27, 1986 where Kerry is speaking, he relates the Christmas in Cambodia story in the third column. http://instapundit.com/images/kerrycambfull.jpg

And why hasn't "John the War Hero" spoken of this story that he claims is true and is on the record as saying happened. Is he telling the truth or is this guy just a big liar willing to say anything to get where he wants to go?

 

[BuddyLee]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I Love it!!

Originally posted by ylexot
A swift boat is not a submarine where the crew is alone and does not interact with other people in the military. They are part of a unit. Saying that other people in that unit don't know anything about his actions in combat is like saying that aircraft squadron-mates don't know about each others actions. It just isn't true. From http://www.swiftvets.com:

The allegations appear to be false at worst and gross distortions at best. Is it really conceivable that Kerry had the doctors, nurses, and entire chain of command in his pocket? Could he wound himself, then work the system to produce a Bronze Star, a Silver Star and three Purple Hearts. It's not likely. At least that is beyond the level of debate in which I am willing to engage. Further, none of the Swiftboat Veterans for Truth were on the boat with Kerry. Even though O'Neill authored an OP-Ed in the Wall Street Journal entitled, "I was on Mr. Kerry's boat in Vietnam. He doesn't deserve to be commander in chief" it is for the reader to discover that Mr. O'Neill served on the same boat as Kerry but at different times. He took command of Kerry's boat after Kerry had been discharged under the "wounded three times and your out" rule. Is that "accurate and fair?" Um. No.

Why haven't any of Kerry's shipmates joined the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth? With the exception of one, all of his shipmates give him high marks for courage and bravery. In fact, some of the veterans with whom Kerry served, including the gentleman whose life Kerry saved, appear in one of Kerry's ads. When you give a job reference, do you give the reference of the people who worked in the same company but in a different location, or worked there after you quit? Or do you give the reference of the people with whom you actually worked?

Very interesting read!


http://www.duckstrap.com/swiftboatveteransfortruth_debunked.php

 

[Otter]

According to the Swiftboatvets.com "Senator John Kerry has made his four-month combat tour in Vietnam the centerpiece of his bid for the Presidency. His campaign jets a handful of veterans around the country, and trots them out at public appearances to sing his praises. John Kerry wants us to believe that these men represent all those he calls his 'band of brothers.' But most combat veterans who served with John Kerry in Vietnam see him in a very different light.

"Swift Boat Veterans for Truth has been formed to counter the false "war crimes" charges John Kerry repeatedly made against Vietnam veterans who served in our units and elsewhere, and to accurately portray Kerry's brief tour in Vietnam as a junior grade Lieutenant. We speak from personal experience - our group includes men who served beside Kerry in combat as well as his commanders. Though we come from different backgrounds and hold varying political opinions, we agree on one thing: John Kerry misrepresented his record and ours in Vietnam and therefore exhibits serious flaws in character and lacks the potential to lead.

Here ya go, Buddy, disprove any of this. Kerry jets around 15 guys that support him, that served with him...and the Swifties have hundreds of vets that served with Kerry that say he isn't fit for the presidency. Seems to me it would be a 50/50 proposition where half support Kerry and half don't. Can you explain the disparity?? It's public record where Kerry admitted he and others committed war crimes, why haven't some of these vets backed him up?

 

[Ken King]

Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: I Love it!!

Originally posted by BuddyLee
Very interesting read!


http://www.duckstrap.com/swiftboatveteransfortruth_debunked.php

What is interesting about this person's comments? As a person who claims he is "working as an officer for the Democratic Party in Minnesota's Senate District 60" I would expect that he would say the claims against Kerry are false. But he doesn't provide any factual evidence on his blog page titled "What I think, Why I think it". I see this as just another opinion like the rest of us are contributing.

 

[ylexot]

John Kerry has been able to convince about 13 men who served on Swift boats in the Mekong Delta to support him, 7 or 8 of whom were at various times crew members on his own 6-man boat. Those are the men the Kerry campaign so prominently featured at the Democratic Convention. The photograph we have posted at SwiftVets.com shows Kerry with 19 of his fellow Swift boat OICs (Officers In Charge) in Coastal Division 11. Four OICs were not present for the photograph. Only one of his 23 fellow OICs from Coastal Division 11 supports John Kerry.

Overall, more than 250 Swift boat veterans are on the record questioning Kerry's fitness to serve as Commander-in-Chief. That list includes his entire chain of command -- every single officer Kerry served under in Vietnam. The Kerry game plan is to ignore all this and pretend that the 13 veterans his campaign jets around the country and puts up in 5-star hotels really represent the truth about his short, controversial combat tour.

Who do you believe?

 

[Otter]

Originally posted by ylexot
Who do you believe?

gmta...

 

[vraiblonde]

thx for the siggy line, vrai

Ooh hoo hoo! I love it when I get space on a sig line :teehee: :tickledpink:

 

[BuddyLee]

Originally posted by ylexot
Who do you believe?

Yet, except for one crewmate, even those who felt betrayed by Kerry for later leading Vietnam Veterans Against the War and who call themselves Bush supporters acknowledge that he showed courage under fire. "He was extremely brave, and I wouldn't argue that point," Thurlow says.

Rassmann, a Republican, now works on Kerry's campaign. But a few other Vietnam veterans have spread stories — some of which Thurlow admits are "hearsay" — on conservative Web sites.

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politicselections/nation/president/2004-04-12-kerry-vietnam_x.htm

Keep them coming. For every site you have I can muster another that claims otherwise.

You see that is what is so great about politics, the debate never ends. I hardly think we'll find the truth to this though. Even if we already have found the truth there is someone already putting major spins on it.

 

[vraiblonde]

Originally posted by BuddyLee
Even if we already have found the truth there is someone already putting major spins on it.

Yeah, like rraley.

Chris Matthews had a Kerry supporter and a Swift Boat guy on his show tonight and that pretty much decided it for me. The Kerry guy was angry and defensive, yet the SB guy was just very calm and matter-of-fact. Matthews tried real hard to not let the SB guy get a word in edgewise but the body language and tone was there.