Jessica Lynch and other Bush lies
- Thread starter demsformd
- Start date
No, sweetie. Just since 1992. You may not agree with Reagan or the Bushes, but "sleazy" is hardly an adjective you'd use to describe them.
Nobody will know the full details of most presidential administrations. The only reason Clinton got caught was because he was stupid and allowed the press more freedom in what they were allowed to report. His administration was already under heavy scrutiny because of Hilary and her problems in Arkansas. They were already under heavy scrutiny because of the campaign financing issues that had been raised. He could not have picked a worse time to do something like he did.
As for the secret service being sent out on booty calls, they may not have used the term then, but Grover cleavland was known for doing just that. Andrew Jackson, not only did that but also had them go out for booze supplies when he was having his famous knock-down drag-out parties while he was in office that typically ended with him and his guests passed out drunk with their companions. At that time it was accepted.
As for Eisenhower and Kay Summersby, I see no difference between an affair such as Clinton had and the relationship between Dwight and Kay except that the white house press was gagged better during the Eisenhower era.
B
Bruzilla
Guest
I have to disagree with you Vrai. I would bet that the majority of presidents back through Washington were probably getting some on the side. I know if I were President I would be getting some. 
Clinton's problem was he took things in this regard to extremes. If a woman throws herself at you, go for it. But having government agents bringing girls to your room, and government employees to boot, was a bad, bad, idea. That opened the door to further inspection and led to the Lewinsky problems.
I agree with jlabsher... he should have just told the media to f-off. It wasn't like the Dems were going to abandon him, or Hillary was going to leave him, if he had admitted to everything.
Clinton's problem was he took things in this regard to extremes. If a woman throws herself at you, go for it. But having government agents bringing girls to your room, and government employees to boot, was a bad, bad, idea. That opened the door to further inspection and led to the Lewinsky problems.
I agree with jlabsher... he should have just told the media to f-off. It wasn't like the Dems were going to abandon him, or Hillary was going to leave him, if he had admitted to everything.
So you don't think that:
Nixon was sleezy for lying to congress?
JFK was sleezy for having Marilyn Monroe to the WH and having an affair with her?
JFK was sleezy for hiring a 19 yr old sweetie with no experience who was with him everywhere he went?
Grover Cleveland was sleezy for allowing his mistress to live with him in the WH and even have a baby there out of wedlock while they were there?
Andrew Jackson was sleezy for having all out drunken parties with women that were brought in for them to enjoy?
That Thomas Jefferson and George Washington were sleezy for keeping their mistresses in the WH for their pleasure?
Your right, nobody can make a blanket statement about ALL of anything because using the word ALL just puts you behind the eightball in trying to prove that ALL. However, the point was that Clinton was not the ONLY president to do something like this and probably will not be the last. Other presidents in history did much worse than him, but it was not public knowledge because the press saw these things as taboo in reporting the news.
It’s my belief that only a handful of people would have had a problem with Clinton if he had just told the truth in the legal proceedings against him. It doesn't matter to me, or many that I know, that sex was the subject. What mattered was that the Chief Executive, responsible for execution of the laws of our land, would have the audacity to lie before a court while under oath.Originally posted by Bruzilla
I have to disagree with you Vrai. I would bet that the majority of presidents back through Washington were probably getting some on the side. I know if I were President I would be getting some.
Clinton's problem was he took things in this regard to extremes. If a woman throws herself at you, go for it. But having government agents bringing girls to your room, and government employees to boot, was a bad, bad, idea. That opened the door to further inspection and led to the Lewinsky problems.
I agree with jlabsher... he should have just told the media to f-off. It wasn't like the Dems were going to abandon him, or Hillary was going to leave him, if he had admitted to everything.
Pete
Repete
Your right, but Clinton was the first one in the modern age of "visable politics" which began in the 70's with Nixon. He resigned, Clinton didn't. If Kennedy (42 years ago), Grover Cleveland (106 years ago), Andrew Jackson (166 years ago), George Washington (206 years ago), Or Thomas Jefferson (194 years ago) were to be subject to the social climate and media surveilance of today, history might not be too kind to them. I would think that all of those men would have made different choices if they were in office today.
Basic fact is the times have changed. He did something bad, made it wirse by lying about it (a concept my 6 year old has down pat). Did it warrant impeachment, that is arguable.
I agree on this point. But I am willing to bet it was his advisors who told him to lie because it would put him in a position where he would have been impeached. As it was his advisors had him stretch the process out to a point where he lasted his whole term and now what people think of him really doesn't matter. He's not in office anymore.
Similar to Nixon, he was one of the greatest experts on foriegn policy we have ever seen in the presidency, but his advisors got him in deep trouble and he didn't handle it properly. He did have to resign because the pressure on him and the distinct possibility that he would be impeached.
The president is only as good as his advisors make him.
H
Heretic
Guest
I don't really think Regan or Bush I was capable of a booty call so that is probably a non issue.
B
Bruce
Guest
Man, the unsupported BS thats posted here as fact is incredible. It's no wonder Clinton lied, his supporters couldn't tell the truth if it bit them in the azz !
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Guffaw...
Therapy?
Therapy?
Larry Gude
Strung Out
Before this latest...
..episode of "History: What we wish it were" goes to far...may I recite the list, AGAIN, as to why Clinton was so small?
White water
McDougals
Tucker
Hubbel
Rose
Lippo
Charlie Trie
Johhny Chung
FBI files
Billy Dale
Utah land grab (low sulfer coal)
75 foreign nationals blowing town under the 5th
Loral and the PRC (missile guidance)
Jaunita
Fund raising scandals
Brodderick
Wiley
Waco
Elian
...what else...???
Oh yeah...
The first World Trade Center Attack
The Embassy attacks
The USS Cole
letting Osama go
reducing the US Military by some 400,000 warm bodies (remember "re-inventing government"???
...the most ethical administration in History?
...can't forget Mark Rich and all the other lovely displays of the last day...
Haitti
Bosnia
Rawanda
Iraq
North Korea
... ... ...
"It was just sex!"
..episode of "History: What we wish it were" goes to far...may I recite the list, AGAIN, as to why Clinton was so small?
White water
McDougals
Tucker
Hubbel
Rose
Lippo
Charlie Trie
Johhny Chung
FBI files
Billy Dale
Utah land grab (low sulfer coal)
75 foreign nationals blowing town under the 5th
Loral and the PRC (missile guidance)
Jaunita
Fund raising scandals
Brodderick
Wiley
Waco
Elian
...what else...???
Oh yeah...
The first World Trade Center Attack
The Embassy attacks
The USS Cole
letting Osama go
reducing the US Military by some 400,000 warm bodies (remember "re-inventing government"???
...the most ethical administration in History?
...can't forget Mark Rich and all the other lovely displays of the last day...
Haitti
Bosnia
Rawanda
Iraq
North Korea
... ... ...
"It was just sex!"
So what you're saying, Thayer, is that Clinton was merely a puppet of Carville and Stephanopolous? So in fact, he wasn't President at all, Jim and George were? Or maybe it was Hillary?
Interesting. And way to shift the blame - worthy of the big man himself.
Interesting. And way to shift the blame - worthy of the big man himself.
Forget it, Larry. These nuts don't want to address these issues - they only want to talk about sex. You keep putting the laundry list out there and not one single time has one of the Clinton supporters come back with anything other than "You're just mad about sex."
Re: Before this latest...
This doesn't bring into question what you listed.
I am not defending Clinton and saying he was the greatest president in modern times. I personaly think he was the worst president in modern times.
The thing to remember about the office of the President is that it is a an upper-level management position that requires the occupier to rely on his mid and lower -level managers to provide input to him for the decision making process. If the mid and lower-level managers are bad then the president will make bad decisions. The President still makes the decisions and is responsible for those decisions. Clinton picked a poorly qualified and shady bunch in his mid and lower-level managers and paid the price.
I understand all those things and I think they were wrong. BUT the discussion I was talking to was the statement you made in regard to the problems he created in his Personal life and how it spilled over to his political life.
This doesn't bring into question what you listed.
I am not defending Clinton and saying he was the greatest president in modern times. I personaly think he was the worst president in modern times.
The thing to remember about the office of the President is that it is a an upper-level management position that requires the occupier to rely on his mid and lower -level managers to provide input to him for the decision making process. If the mid and lower-level managers are bad then the president will make bad decisions. The President still makes the decisions and is responsible for those decisions. Clinton picked a poorly qualified and shady bunch in his mid and lower-level managers and paid the price.
Larry Gude
Strung Out
When...
...did I say that???
...did I say that???
Otter
Nothing to see here
Re: Before this latest...
That leads to the question Bawa should ask Hillary...How would you explain the New Square, NY Hasidic group voted something like 1500-4 in favor of Hillary in the senate race while 2 neighoring Hasidic groups voted for Lazio in a landslide?? Might it have something to do with a pardon of 4 scam artists, convicted and sentenced in 1999, that bilked the US govt of 40 million dollars in Pell grants for fictitious students???
That leads to the question Bawa should ask Hillary...How would you explain the New Square, NY Hasidic group voted something like 1500-4 in favor of Hillary in the senate race while 2 neighoring Hasidic groups voted for Lazio in a landslide?? Might it have something to do with a pardon of 4 scam artists, convicted and sentenced in 1999, that bilked the US govt of 40 million dollars in Pell grants for fictitious students???
Larry Gude
Strung Out
There is some truth...
...in that HE chose poorly, but, that is a leadership skill. Also, everything I ever read about Clinton is that he is a terrible micro manager, constantly imersing himself in the details and interfering with people doing their job.
These things go hand in hand; inability to delegate because you don't trust your own judgement BECAUSE you have poor judgement.
Clinton the President is a tribute to American ideas that ANYBODY can succeed in this counrty. Clinton the person is a reminder that that "doing" and "being" something are very different.
Anyone can BE President.
Not everyone can DO President.
And the choice is ours. My objections arise when people try to change the facts. The truth is often rather important.
...in that HE chose poorly, but, that is a leadership skill. Also, everything I ever read about Clinton is that he is a terrible micro manager, constantly imersing himself in the details and interfering with people doing their job.
These things go hand in hand; inability to delegate because you don't trust your own judgement BECAUSE you have poor judgement.
Clinton the President is a tribute to American ideas that ANYBODY can succeed in this counrty. Clinton the person is a reminder that that "doing" and "being" something are very different.
Anyone can BE President.
Not everyone can DO President.
And the choice is ours. My objections arise when people try to change the facts. The truth is often rather important.