Jesus is either the biggest fraud in history or He is exactly who He claims to be.

[crabcake]

2A, I realize that people sin. I sin, you sin, we all sin ... and I won't speak for others on here -- just myself. I find the hardest thing to swallow about you is just how judgemental you come across on here when you're trying to share the gospel, word of God, et al. And I know I'm not the first person to say this. Your comment about Chasey, the people who "deserved to die in the Tsunami because they weren't christian", and others that I don't have the time to look up right now. And I'm no student of the Bible on the level you and others on here are, but I know that that's one of the things that Christians aren't supposed to do -- be judgemental ... fine, think it, seek forgiveness, but you speak/type it ... and that's the blatant hypocrisy that I have repeatedly commented on here about that clouds any good you try to share about the word of God. It's like looking at a white sign that has a little fuschia dot ... you're eye is naturally drawn to the one little dot.

Just my two cents. I'm outta here and getting ready to go camping. Ya'll have a great weekend!

 

[2ndAmendment]

I found the reference.

Romans 7:14-25
<sup id="en-NASB-28106">14</sup>For we know that the Law is spiritual, but I am of flesh, sold into bondage to sin. <sup id="en-NASB-28107">15</sup>For what I am doing, I do not understand; for I am not practicing what I would like to do, but I am doing the very thing I hate.

<sup id="en-NASB-28108">16</sup>But if I do the very thing I do not want to do, I agree with the Law, confessing that the Law is good.

<sup id="en-NASB-28109">17</sup>So now, no longer am I the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

<sup id="en-NASB-28110">18</sup>For I know that nothing good dwells in me, that is, in my flesh; for the willing is present in me, but the doing of the good is not.

<sup id="en-NASB-28111">19</sup>For the good that I want, I do not do, but I practice the very evil that I do not want.

<sup id="en-NASB-28112">20</sup>But if I am doing the very thing I do not want, I am no longer the one doing it, but sin which dwells in me.

<sup id="en-NASB-28113">21</sup>I find then the principle that evil is present in me, the one who wants to do good.

<sup id="en-NASB-28114">22</sup>For I joyfully concur with the law of God in the inner man,

<sup id="en-NASB-28115">23</sup>but I see a different law in the members of my body, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin which is in my members.

<sup id="en-NASB-28116">24</sup>Wretched man that I am! Who will set me free from the body of this death?

<sup id="en-NASB-28117">25</sup>Thanks be to God through Jesus Christ our Lord! So then, on the one hand I myself with my mind am serving the law of God, but on the other, with my flesh the law of sin.

 

[2ndAmendment]

2A, I realize that people sin. I sin, you sin, we all sin ... and I won't speak for others on here -- just myself. I find the hardest thing to swallow about you is just how judgemental you come across on here when you're trying to share the gospel, word of God, et al. And I know I'm not the first person to say this. Your comment about Chasey, the people who "deserved to die in the Tsunami because they weren't christian", and others that I don't have the time to look up right now. And I'm no student of the Bible on the level you and others on here are, but I know that that's one of the things that Christians aren't supposed to do -- be judgemental ... fine, think it, seek forgiveness, but you speak/type it ... and that's the blatant hypocrisy that I have repeatedly commented on here about that clouds any good you try to share about the word of God. It's like looking at a white sign that has a little fuschia dot ... you're eye is naturally drawn to the one little dot.

Just my two cents. I'm outta here and getting ready to go camping. Ya'll have a great weekend!

I don't disagree that I can come across as harsh. Fire and brimstone if you will. Maybe it is shock value. Too many people only speak of God's love, but His judgment is also real. If I offend you or Elaine or Chasey, even through shock, and it finally connects, then I'll see you in God's kingdom and that will make all the abuse I receive on the board and karma worth it. I really do love you guys; I don't want you to be on the highway to hell. The trip might seem like fun, but the destination is terrible.

 

[mAlice]

Is it still sinning if you go camping with your b/f and share a tent?

Not if you don't have sex. Apparently the Jews lived together for a year, without having sex, to determine if they liked each other.

 

[Railroad]

I sense that the crux of these recurring discussions is that people don't want to accept what's in the Bible as fact. We don't have to get hurtful with each other if we recognize that. Belief in God and accepting His word as fact are two choices available to everyone reading this. If you choose not to do those things, there's no need to argue with those who do (and vice versa).

Some of you are taking 2A's statements of fact as arrogance (or beyond arrogance) - and you've taken mine in the same way. There's a difference, in my view, between a belief and a fact. I believe the Bible is a book of facts, just as I believe a dictionary or a telephone book is a book of facts. For example, if you picked up the phone book, looked up someone's telephone number, and called that number, you'd fully expect them to answer the phone if they were home, right? Well the Bible is much more complex than a phone book, but no less factual. So (I think I can speak for both 2A and myself when I say this) when 2A and I make statements that sound like we're arrogant, please understand that we see ourselves as stating facts for the benefit of everybody, not being arrogant about our "beliefs" and being "holier than thou" about it.

My two cents - y'all have a great weekend!

 

[Tonio]

Railroad, I appreciate your reply. In my opinion, no religion's teachings qualify as fact, because an individual's personal religious revelation can't be measured or quantified. I believe that to even try to quantify it goes against the whole concept of faith, such as when the "intelligent design" advocates say their theories prove the existence of God. Isn't faith about believing in things that can't be perceived by our normal senses? I'm glad you acknowledged that some people perceive you as sounding arrogant. I believe you and 2A when you say you have others' best interests at heart. Still, when you describe your beliefs as truth, it sounds like an attempt to define other people, to take control of their perceptions. I believe that no one has a monopoly on truth.

 

[dems4me]

Railroad, I appreciate your reply. In my opinion, no religion's teachings qualify as fact, because an individual's personal religious revelation can't be measured or quantified. I believe that to even try to quantify it goes against the whole concept of faith, such as when the "intelligent design" advocates say their theories prove the existence of God. Isn't faith about believing in things that can't be perceived by our normal senses? I'm glad you acknowledged that some people perceive you as sounding arrogant. I believe you and 2A when you say you have others' best interests at heart. Still, when you describe your beliefs as truth, it sounds like an attempt to define other people, to take control of their perceptions. I believe that no one has a monopoly on truth.

I believe the Bible as truth too in its entirety. But I think its the way you go about smacking someone on the head with it :shrug:

 

[Nickel]

I believe the Bible as truth too in its entirety. But I think its the way you go about smacking someone on the head with it :shrug:

Good word choice!

 

[dems4me]

Good word choice!

Sounds like someone's siggy in the making

 

[K_Jo]

Well the Bible is much more complex than a phone book, but no less factual. So (I think I can speak for both 2A and myself when I say this) when 2A and I make statements that sound like we're arrogant, please understand that we see ourselves as stating facts for the benefit of everybody, not being arrogant about our "beliefs" and being "holier than thou" about it.

You believe the bible is no less factual than a phone book. I believe it is meant to be a learning tool and not to be taken literally. That doesn't make you right and me wrong. 2A's tone in his posts is almost hateful. That's why I asked if he ever has fun. He sounds like a guy who's so completely pissed at and disgusted by people who don't believe what he believes that I can't imagine him actually kicking back and enjoying life. I understand that people really get into their religion, but to tell people they are sinners and they're going to hell just because their beliefs don't match up with yours just doesn't seem like something that would make God happy.

 

[K_Jo]

 

[dems4me]

why is everyone waving the flag today :shrug:

 

[Toxick]

I believe that no one has a monopoly on truth.

Well somebody does. Someone has to.




There's only one truth.
By definition - there is only one truth. Otherwise, it wouldn't be called THE TRVTH.



And someone (or many people) out there knows what THE TRVTH is.




And if one person, or group of people know the truth, everyone who disagrees with them is, by defintion, wrong.

Q.E.D.


Caveat: The above proof fails to take into accout the possibility that we're ALL wrong. Luckily for me, I don't believe that either.

 

[K_Jo]

why is everyone waving the flag today :shrug:

Paying tribute to a fallen comrade.

 

[dems4me]

Paying tribute to a fallen comrade.

awww...

 

[PJay]

People were the impetus, studying was the clincher. But, thanks for your concern.

I was on that road once. I understand.

 

[Railroad]

Railroad, I appreciate your reply. In my opinion, no religion's teachings qualify as fact, because an individual's personal religious revelation can't be measured or quantified. I believe that to even try to quantify it goes against the whole concept of faith, such as when the "intelligent design" advocates say their theories prove the existence of God. Isn't faith about believing in things that can't be perceived by our normal senses? I'm glad you acknowledged that some people perceive you as sounding arrogant. I believe you and 2A when you say you have others' best interests at heart. Still, when you describe your beliefs as truth, it sounds like an attempt to define other people, to take control of their perceptions. I believe that no one has a monopoly on truth.

I know that at least I, and 2A as well, have no intention of taking control of other people's perceptions or to define them. As far as truth or fact are concerned, facts are facts and time alone will prove some of the more pertinent ones. And I have no intention of beating anybody over the head with anything - but I expect the same respect in return.

These two topics - gays being sinners and Christians vs. others, keep coming up time after time in here. We all say the same things over and over. Nobody changes their positions, sad but true. I would like to recommend suspending the practice of asking leading questions on the same two topics, over and over again. Coming back to the same points every week is doing nothing for anyone, and egging each other on to argument on the same old topics is ludicrous. Someone has said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting the result to change.

Why try to evoke sadness and anger when you can acknowledge some things (whether or not you accept them is your affair), and move on? God and His rules aren't going to change because we'd like them to. Ignore them if you wish - that's your choice. But let's drop these two useless arguments and move on.

 

[Railroad]

Paying tribute to a fallen comrade.

May I ask whom it was?

 

[Nickel]

Coming back to the same points every week is doing nothing for anyone, and egging each other on to argument on the same old topics is ludicrous. Someone has said that insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, expecting the result to change.

I'd like you to note who started this, and the majority of, the threads based upon those subjects.

 

[Railroad]

I'd like you to note who started this, and the majority of, the threads based upon those subjects.

I understand - but he's not trying to start arguments, he's trying to reach people who need the messages he posts. No need to respond in a retort, is there?