Kamala great on the debate stage?

[SamSpade]

It’s clear enough to me that -

1. Persons opposed to abortion are all over the issue as to WHEN a pregnancy can be halted, from the moment of conception to sometime later.

2. Some states in the nation have populations vigorously opposed to abortion in greater proportions. It’s easily possible to have the majority oppose it.

3. Despite calls for federal bans or federal guarantees, there honestly can’t be anything more DEMOCRATIC than allowing states - and hence, state legislatures chosen by the people - to decide.

4. Until recently, the United States has had among the most liberal laws regarding abortion in the world with only a very few allowing it so easily - including our much praised European friends, who nearly all have restrictions that wouldn’t pass in this country.

5. So it seems to me, a reasonable middle ground between outright ban and outright unrestricted permission would be a model like theirs.

 

[GURPS]

I'll agree that potential life begins at the moment of conception.

The Supreme Court came to this decision way back when ....

 

[GURPS]

But a cell blob that has potential to grow into that baby? Meh.

Yeah .... the process startss with a single cell

The Genie will NEVER be put back in the bottle ....


tbh, I don't care what a person does, that is between them and GOD .... However


1. OWN IT ... Abortion is murder - stop wrapping the process in terms to assuage your guilt

2. Do NOT Make me pay for it - Not Federally, at the State, County or Local Level ...

Stop the CAP, Money is Fungible the lie this money is only for ' health ' services like pap smears and exams ....

A. Women ARE NOT going to PPH for pap smears
B.

Partial Birth Abortion is NOT for the life of the mother and the ghouls are selling the parts

Also Unhinged Progressives attack and firebomb Crisis Pregnancy Centers

 

[vraiblonde]

Republicans need to back away from the abortion argument.

Agree, but it's only a thing again because the left has gone WAY too far. They're like little kids pushing their limits - "Can I do this? How about this? This?" Someone like me who was always, "Please, life's loser and societal predator, please abort your spawn and don't put out another abused neglected child," is disgusted by them and wanting limits on their bloodlust.

It's like their trans bullshit. Nobody cared about trans people - live and let live. Then the Left started making a big deal out of it and being purposely offensive. Just like they did with race and like they do with everything else. They're *trying* to piss people off, and when they go far enough people will indeed get pissed. All of them marching in support of Hamas - it's deliberately provocative.

But I completely agree with you that the federal government should stay out of it. Kicking it back to the states should have happened a long time ago. That's what states are for.

 

[BOP]

Jesus, it was a stupid question that deserves a stupid answer. I can’t have a child, I don’t have uterus, therefore I don’t have an opinion on this.

I do loath existing rights being taken away, that I don’t stand for.

For being an atheist you use the word satanic a lot.

Yes you do. The left is lying to you and to women.

The issue is reproductive control. They want women to have total control, and men to have none; not even an opinion. And yet, who do they expect to pay for it all? Men. Tax paying men, and, okay, the 20% of women who vote conservative.

Ultimately, it's about taking control away from the rank-and-file American, and giving it to the leftist elites.

 

[BOP]

Not so long ago you were an Rabid Pro Abortion person.

I'll answer the implied question, since I was also a pro abortion person. I wouldn't call myself rabid anything, though.

What happened, since that's the clear-to-me question is that California, New York, and 6 other states passed legislation making abortion legal up to (and here's the real important part) and moments after birth.

That's what changed. For me, anyway; as a pro abortion person.

 

[BOP]

Agree, but it's only a thing again because the left has gone WAY too far. They're like little kids pushing their limits - "Can I do this? How about this? This?" Someone like me who was always, "Please, life's loser and societal predator, please abort your spawn and don't put out another abused neglected child," is disgusted by them and wanting limits on their bloodlust.

It's like their trans bullshit. Nobody cared about trans people - live and let live. Then the Left started making a big deal out of it and being purposely offensive. Just like they did with race and like they do with everything else. They're *trying* to piss people off, and when they go far enough people will indeed get pissed. All of them marching in support of Hamas - it's deliberately provocative.

But I completely agree with you that the federal government should stay out of it. Kicking it back to the states should have happened a long time ago. That's what states are for.

But then the left wouldn't be able to use the coercive power of the federal government (aka "big daddy" government) to enforce their will on people who don't agree with them.

It's all about power and control.

 

[black dog]

I'll answer the implied question, since I was also a pro abortion person. I wouldn't call myself rabid anything, though.

What happened, since that's the clear-to-me question is that California, New York, and 6 other states passed legislation making abortion legal up to (and here's the real important part) and moments after birth.

That's what changed. For me, anyway; as a pro abortion person.

OK thats fair.
I'm a pro abortion person.
I really don't care when it happens. It's not my business what medical decisions a woman makes.

 

[SamSpade]

I don't buy the "if you don't have a uterus, you don't have a right to an opinion". Well I don't have a gun, either. I have my own opinion about it. I don't own a small business, I don't hold elective office and I don't make movies - and I have opinions about all of them. The ONLY reason people say that is to shame people into shutting up - because when people WHO DO have one speak against it, they're all for shutting THEM up too.

I don't know the answer to the abortion issue - I am mortified that we have two camps who believe that the MOST EXTREME position is the only one where they feel "safe" - either abortion is freely availabe at any time or it is banned. But they DO that, because the matter is never settled and therefore, every "win" is whittling away at the other's position. In the gun issue, they say there's no such thing as gun CONTROL, only incremental confiscation. This is shown in the abortion issue - the two sides take absurd extreme positions BECAUSE they know an abortion BAN will never be flipped IMMEDIATELY to total access - and reverse. It's playing the incremental confiscation game. It's a game of inches, as they say in football.

Here's a few thoughts - if abortion is murder - should we execute every doctor who has done the procedure? Should it be done for all of the women who have had them, or taken a pill or medication to abort a child? Would that make a miscarriage subject to laws regarding negligence? If it is not - would it become acceptable for women to become pregnant for the expressed purpose of harvesting fetuses for the tissue?

Does it not make SENSE - to come to the table, and find a middle ground where people can agree? Is a 16 cell blastocyte actually a HUMAN, with rights? How about then, a late term fetus that is otherwise 100% viable outside the womb? I can't agree with the former - it is clearly LESS human than if I cut off a finger - which is also, not human. And I can't agree that the second is NOT. The first example has no organs, no blood, no nervous system, nothing - but it's human? The second (the finger) is clearly "human" - but it has no organs, brain, nothing - it is not a "person".

Now for some basic data - most abortions, in fact a huge proportion are ended in the first trimester. 93% are within the first trimeter, and close to 99% within the first 20 weeks. It would seem then, a legal cutoff of 22 weeks - VERY COMMON across the world - should be acceptable. If allowed BEYOND that - some nations will ONLY - if at all - allow it if *medically necessary* and they draw the distinction against say, economic necessity or mental "health" (read: mother's wishes) as being different. This is acceptable to me, provided that it's drawn tightly. If you have a law that draws the line at a certain point, you don't just wave it off and concoct a lame reason why you can ignore it.

If conservatives can withdraw from battle and accept - this is reasonable - and liberals can back off and stop trying to push the envelope on the laws - we wouldn't need federal law, SCOTUS or the like to ram their ideas. The data suggest that the reality of abortion and the laws that exist in Europe reflect REALITY - here.

 

[vraiblonde]

Does it not make SENSE - to come to the table, and find a middle ground where people can agree?

Meh. What fun would that be?

Most of our contentious social issues have a simple solution, but the PTB like to keep us fighting so we overlook their shenanigans. Sure, there will be extremists on both sides who refuse to compromise, but to hell with those malcontents. They just want to fight and should be ignored.

 

[SamSpade]

Meh. What fun would that be?

Most of our contentious social issues have a simple solution, but the PTB like to keep us fighting so we overlook their shenanigans. Sure, there will be extremists on both sides who refuse to compromise, but to hell with those malcontents. They just want to fight and should be ignored.

Thought about that.

You know, I love to watch Gutfeld - as funny - and sometimes really gauche (which I enjoy, because it's spontaneous and not practiced) - I do find his insights in his opening monologue very thought provoking even if I don't always agree.

But the person I love to listen to the most - is Tyrus. If he's not on that night, I don't always stick around. He almost always sums it up neatly.

And he has mentioned OFTEN - that the press, media, TPTB - like to dangle little issues like baubles in the public - BUT ONLY TO DISTRACT YOU. And both sides do it, but the Dems have perfected it. Right now, one of the issues is the stolen valor thing, which ultimately will turn out to be much ado of nothing - at worst, it will show that Walz has IMPLIED things without saying them outright, because he's picked his words carefully. Just like Nancy can claim she didn't "push" Joe out, but chose her words in such a way to never say she told him - just - implied it strongly and repeatedly.

BUT IT IS A DISTRACTION, an issue which will disappear very soon, until the next one. And Tyrus applies this to everything - stop fussing about "being black" - focus on how she has treated blacks. Stop fussing over his military record - look at what he has done.

The media now see their task as keeping the forces chasing their tails and fighting over scraps - because it sells and keeps the masses occupied.

I think you made the observation that sheep wouldn't trust the shepherd so much as protecting them from the wolf if they realized he was just saving them to eat them later. Once everyone realizes the press is playing them, they wouldn't listen any more.

But - lastly - in Europe, at least on the abortion issue - the matter is more or less settled, and there aren't election battles over it spanning decades. They've resolved it more or less.

 

[gemma_rae]

If you ever have the opportunity to witness a girl/woman announce to the boy/man "I'm Pregnant" completely out of the blue, with few exceptions the reaction is going to be either extreme joy, or sheer terror.

I'm beginning to think the insistence on a federal law is not for (insert excuse here): ____________, but to assuage the guilt of terminating an unwanted pregnancy.

 

[Kyle]

 

[SamSpade]

I'm beginning to think the insistence on a federal law is not for (insert excuse here): ____________, but to assuage the guilt of terminating an unwanted pregnancy.

Interesting. They feel guilt - but since it’s legal, they get over it?

We were just talking about a neighbor who goes through pets - once they become a nuisance - to the shelter. I’ve lost count over the dogs. I wish they would just stop. I would feel guilty no matter how legal it was. I still feel guilty from putting my dog in a shelter after it attacked another neighbor. And that was fifteen years ago.

I suppose I assumed the most vigorous defenders of abortion felt zero guilt.

 

[gemma_rae]

Interesting. They feel guilt - but since it’s legal, they get over it?



I suppose I assumed the most vigorous defenders of abortion felt zero guilt.

Yes, the average couple can find at least some solace knowing it's legal and memory will fade with time, and at least some justification amongst family and friends that the government has deemed "it's legal".

I am of the same belief that the most vigorous defenders will feel zero guilt, if not pride, in shoving it right in the face of anyone opposed. I am also of the belief most vigorous defenders would also fall into the extremist category though.

 

[vraiblonde]

But - lastly - in Europe, at least on the abortion issue - the matter is more or less settled, and there aren't election battles over it spanning decades. They've resolved it more or less.

That's because in Europe the government tells you what it is, and if you disagree they throw you in prison.

 

[CPUSA]

I'm a pro abortion person.
I really don't care when it happens. It's not my business what medical decisions a woman makes.

As parents, we really do need the full 18 yrs after birth to properly consider aborting our children...

Look at Chopticon64...his parents should've taken him out by his tween years....
I know I thought about it more than once, with my lil idgit...Sometimes, I think the boy ate paint chips in the old farm house...