Kerry said to be excommunicated

ylexot

ylexot

Super Genius
Los Angeles, Oct. 18 (CWNews.com) - A consultant to the Vatican has said Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry has incurred the penalty of excommunication from the Catholic Church.
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I really hope they don't do this. I don't think it will have any effect on Kerry, but I do think it will harm Christianity. It reinforces the belief that the Pope holds some power and influence over a Catholic President/Senator/Judge/etc. And since many non-Christians lump all Christians in with Catholics, it will hurt the image of Christians in general holding public office.
 
Sharon

Sharon

* * * * * * * * *
Staff member
PREMO Member
ylexot said:
I do think it will harm Christianity.
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I don't...I hope they do it. :lol: Catholicism is based more on church traditions than it is on the bible. Being a Catholic does not make you a Christian. He's already had his 1st marriage "annulled" ...which I've always thought is a stupid idea.

It reinforces the belief that the Pope holds some power
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I'm always amazed that people put their faith in the Pope; he's just a man. Seems like every new year he comes out with some idiotic idea that says people will go to Heaven "if they do this or that".
 
2ndAmendment

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
He quoted "faith without works is dead" even though he either didn't know the book, chapter, and verse or choose not to state it (It is James 2:14-26.). The fact is his words say he does not believe in killing unborn babies, but his works say he supports killing unborn babies. His words say he does not believe in homosexuality but his action supports it. Actions speak of our true belief. The belonging to a Christian church, Catholic or otherwise, is a bilateral acceptance of the faith of the church. When a member acts in a manner that is expressly against that faith actually enforcing and rewarding sin, then the church (body of believers) is directed in the Bible to separate themselves from that person; see 2 Timothy 3:1-9 for just one passage.
 
2ndAmendment

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
willie said:
A different perspective:
http://www.catholicnews.com/data/stories/cns/0405749.htm
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The Vatican is very "political". When was the last time a prominent Catholic was excommunicated? The Baptists are just as "political"; they should have tossed Clinton. I don't ever recall any prominent person being excommunicated by any organized religion even if the Bible and the church doctrine dictated that that person should be an anathema to the church.
 
itsbob

itsbob

I bowl overhand
2ndAmendment said:
The Vatican is very "political". When was the last time a prominent Catholic was excommunicated? The Baptists are just as "political"; they should have tossed Clinton. I don't ever recall any prominent person being excommunicated by any organized religion even if the Bible and the church doctrine dictated that that person should be an anathema to the church.
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Alice Cooper was, from the Mormons, he was prominent a few decades ago..
 
Tonio

Tonio

Asperger's Poster Child
Sharon said:
Catholicism is based more on church traditions than it is on the bible.
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I never knew any Catholics growing up, and I was surprised to find out that the English Catholic bible has some books that aren't in the KJV. That's why I'm skeptical about the Bible being the ultimate authority for God's word. There are so many versions and so many translations. No one can know which version is the "right" one, and maybe there is none.
 
Penn

Penn

Dancing Up A Storm
Tonio said:
I never knew any Catholics growing up, and I was surprised to find out that the English Catholic bible has some books that aren't in the KJV. That's why I'm skeptical about the Bible being the ultimate authority for God's word. There are so many versions and so many translations. No one can know which version is the "right" one, and maybe there is none.
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The books you're refering to are known as the Apocrypha:

"From Greek apokryptein, "to hide away"), in biblical literature, works outside an accepted canon of scripture. The history of the term's usage indicates that it referred to a body of esoteric writings that were at first prized, later tolerated, and finally excluded. In its broadest sense apocrypha has come to mean any writings of dubious authority.

There are several levels of dubiety within the general concept of apocryphal works in Judeo-Christian biblical writings.

Apocrypha per se are outside the canon, not considered divinely inspired but regarded as worthy of study by the faithful."

It is said in scripture, in most of the books of the Bible, that "the Lord spoke to so and so, and he/she made record of His words"..................for example, and I think that is what the gist of these books is. They were not inspired by the Lord, yet they do have spiritual meaning for believers.
 
Tonio

Tonio

Asperger's Poster Child
Penn said:
They were not inspired by the Lord, yet they do have spiritual meaning for believers.
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My question is, how can anyone know which books of the Bible were divinely inspired and which weren't?
 
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Penn

Penn

Dancing Up A Storm
Tonio said:
My question is, how can anyone know which books of the Bible were divinely inspired and which weren't?
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"It is said in scripture, in most of the books of the Bible, that "the Lord spoke to so and so, and he/she made record of His words"..................for example, and I think that is what the gist of these books is."


They were not inspired by the Lord, yet they do have spiritual meaning for believers."

There, my friend, I opened it up a bit, so you could catch the reference in
my reply this time.:razz:

You will see phrases alluding to this in most, if not all the Minor and Major Prophets in the Old Testament, and throught the New Testament, the writings of Paul, especially.
 
2ndAmendment

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
Penn said:
Apocrypha per se are outside the canon, not considered divinely inspired but regarded as worthy of study by the faithful."

It is said in scripture, in most of the books of the Bible, that "the Lord spoke to so and so, and he/she made record of His words"..................for example, and I think that is what the gist of these books is. They were not inspired by the Lord, yet they do have spiritual meaning for believers.
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You should qualify that as Catholics, not believers. Most believers do not believe the Apocrypha at all.
 
Penn

Penn

Dancing Up A Storm
2ndAmendment said:
You should qualify that as Catholics, not believers. Most believers do not believe the Apocrypha at all.
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Ah, thank you for setting me straight, 2nd A.

The text refered to "study by the faithful", and that is how I interpreted the passage.

Catholic believers, hmmm. Gotcha!
 
2ndAmendment

2ndAmendment

Just a forgiven sinner
PREMO Member
Tonio said:
My question is, how can anyone know which books of the Bible were divinely inspired and which weren't?
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All the 66 books of the canon are the Word of God; the apocrypha are not. You have free will to accept that or not; I am not trying to be confrontational here. God created each of us with free will.

I am going to digress here a bit. Did you see "Almighty Bruce" with Jim Carey (Bruce) and Morgan Freeman (God)? There is a point in the movie where (this is paraphrased) Bruce asks how you make someone love you when there is free will. Morgan Freeman answers now you see my problem.

God loves us unconditionally like a father. Like a good father, He does not give us everything we want and He corrects us and provides guidance, the Bible, and support, other believers. He gives us what we need (not want). His desire for us is to fellowship with Him personally. Try this. Find a place where you can be alone with no distractions. Spend some time just being quiet. Pray for God to give you faith and listen. I think you will be amazed at the peace you will find and the insight to yourself and to God that will be revealed. You may "hear" an inner voice; you will know if it is Him or yourself. Try it.

As believers, we are to pray without ceasing. That is hard. It means pray about everything, every decision, every choice. Read the Bible to learn God's way. Pray to do things God's way. The Bible is a good book besides being The Good Book. A bit dry and slow some places, but it is a history book as well as a guide book, and a book of future events. It has the histories of men that were chosen by God and their failings, sins, and their return to God. The Bible has wars and the histories of great loves. Every time you read it (I mean cover to cover), you will read something you didn't see before even in the exact same Bible you have been reading. That is because you are in a different place in your life and you need something different and God provides it. You get a deeper understanding. But it takes faith to read the Bible. Most people can't even get past the first chapter of Genesis. Without faith, the Bible seems like nonsense. But there is something strange about reading the Bible without faith. If you try and keep trying and keep seeking, you will get the faith to understand and read.

God bless your quest.
 
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Dymphna

Dymphna

Loyalty, Friendship, Love
Kerry won't be excommunicated because the Vatican has to play the politics game too. On the off chance Kerry wins, the Vatican wouldn't be able to acknowledge him and they can't afford to do that. They will make noises perhaps, they have before, but they know that the logistics of getting elected in such a diverse country and then running it means compromise.

As far as the differences in the bibles, the Catholic bible was first, but the differing opinions about what should be included was a contributing factor to the rise of Protestantism. There were hundreds of other books that were considered and rejected before we ended up with the Bible we have today. As far as the KJV goes, don't get me started. Let's just say...Thou shalt not twist the original languages of the bible to meet your own poetical and political agenda.
 
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